150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

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150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

Piotr Konieczny-2
Getting any reliable estimates on our community has always been
difficult. However, recently, in official Wikimedia Foundation
announcements and such (ex.
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Letter/en?utm_source=2008_jimmy_letter_r&utm_medium=sitenotice&utm_campaign=fundraiser2008#appeal)
  the number "a global community of more than 150,000 volunteers"
appeared. I would very much like to now - what date is it based on?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians gives 8.5 million
registered accounts. Of course many of those are duplicates, but then
there are many unregistered contributors... still, my own guesstimate
would be at at least half a million - if not several millions - of
people who had edited Wikipedia (in any language, ove the past ~8
years). This guesstimate is based on analysis of a small sample of
editors I know and how many accounts they've created (which for a vast
majority is ONE). Sure, there are sockpuppet vandals, but... do we
really have 150,000 volunteers, maybe as much legitimate socks/bots, and
over 8 millions vandal sockpuppet accounts???

--
Piotr Konieczny

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Re: 150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

R.Stuart Geiger
It may come from http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaEN.htm -
which is from 2006 and only for the English Wikipedia.  According to
that site, there are slightly over 150,000 registered contributors who
have made at least ten edits on en.wp.  That number jumps to about
300,000 when all languages are included
(http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaZZ.htm), but again, that
is from late 2006.

Stuart Geiger

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Getting any reliable estimates on our community has always been
> difficult. However, recently, in official Wikimedia Foundation
> announcements and such (ex.
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Letter/en?utm_source=2008_jimmy_letter_r&utm_medium=sitenotice&utm_campaign=fundraiser2008#appeal)
>  the number "a global community of more than 150,000 volunteers"
> appeared. I would very much like to now - what date is it based on?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians gives 8.5 million
> registered accounts. Of course many of those are duplicates, but then
> there are many unregistered contributors... still, my own guesstimate
> would be at at least half a million - if not several millions - of
> people who had edited Wikipedia (in any language, ove the past ~8
> years). This guesstimate is based on analysis of a small sample of
> editors I know and how many accounts they've created (which for a vast
> majority is ONE). Sure, there are sockpuppet vandals, but... do we
> really have 150,000 volunteers, maybe as much legitimate socks/bots, and
> over 8 millions vandal sockpuppet accounts???
>
> --
> Piotr Konieczny
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>

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Re: 150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

Sage Ross
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Stuart Geiger <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It may come from http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaEN.htm -
> which is from 2006 and only for the English Wikipedia.  According to
> that site, there are slightly over 150,000 registered contributors who
> have made at least ten edits on en.wp.  That number jumps to about
> 300,000 when all languages are included
> (http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaZZ.htm), but again, that
> is from late 2006.
>
> Stuart Geiger
>

For English Wikipedia, we have more recent stats: [[Wikipedia:Editing
frequency]], which is basically an update of the active userbase
through late 2008.

I've written a bit about this.  See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ragesoss/Editing_frequency_stats
and
http://ragesossscholar.blogspot.com/2008/12/wikipedia-blogging-outside-wiki-planet.html

-Sage (User:Ragesoss)

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Re: 150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

Matthew Flaschen
In reply to this post by Piotr Konieczny-2
Piotr Konieczny wrote:

> Getting any reliable estimates on our community has always been
> difficult. However, recently, in official Wikimedia Foundation
> announcements and such (ex.
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Letter/en?utm_source=2008_jimmy_letter_r&utm_medium=sitenotice&utm_campaign=fundraiser2008#appeal)
>   the number "a global community of more than 150,000 volunteers"
> appeared. I would very much like to now - what date is it based on?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians gives 8.5 million
> registered accounts. Of course many of those are duplicates, but then
> there are many unregistered contributors... still, my own guesstimate
> would be at at least half a million - if not several millions - of
> people who had edited Wikipedia (in any language, ove the past ~8
> years).

No doubt, millions of people have edited some version of Wikipedia, with
constructive intent.

 This guesstimate is based on analysis of a small sample of
> editors I know and how many accounts they've created (which for a vast
> majority is ONE). Sure, there are sockpuppet vandals, but... do we
> really have 150,000 volunteers, maybe as much legitimate socks/bots, and
> over 8 millions vandal sockpuppet accounts???

I'm not at all clear how you arrived at the figure "8 millions vandal
sockpuppet accounts", nor what you mean by it.  However, it doesn't
follow from the figures you've cited.  Rather, I believe most of the 8.5
million user accounts are simply inactive.  Someone made an edit,
constructive or not, then left, and did not return with that account (at
least not yet).

Matt Flaschen

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Re: 150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

Piotr Konieczny-2
Matthew Flaschen wrote:

> I'm not at all clear how you arrived at the figure "8 millions vandal
> sockpuppet accounts", nor what you mean by it.  However, it doesn't
> follow from the figures you've cited.  Rather, I believe most of the 8.5
> million user accounts are simply inactive.  Someone made an edit,
> constructive or not, then left, and did not return with that account (at
> least not yet).

For me, such editors are part of our community of volunteers. Only
accounts used for non-constructive edits wouldn't be part of it, hence
logic dictates they would be vandal-only accounts.

Of course, we may dispute whether all volunteers are a part of
community; but the main point here is whether the current official
Wikimedia Foundation number of "a global community of more than 150,000
volunteers" isn't a serious under estimation?

Do we know the global edit redistribution per users? I.e. how many users
made 0 edits, how many made 1, how many made 10,000... a graph would be
quite useful.

--
Piotr

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Re: 150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

Matthew Flaschen
Piotr Konieczny wrote:

> Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>
>> I'm not at all clear how you arrived at the figure "8 millions vandal
>> sockpuppet accounts", nor what you mean by it.  However, it doesn't
>> follow from the figures you've cited.  Rather, I believe most of the 8.5
>> million user accounts are simply inactive.  Someone made an edit,
>> constructive or not, then left, and did not return with that account (at
>> least not yet).
>
> For me, such editors are part of our community of volunteers.

Okay, that's your definition of "community of volunteers".  Lots of
people have their own definiton of volunteer and/or active user (as was
recently discussed here). But clearly what the stat means is that there
are/were 150,000 active users (for some value of active), which
it is calling a community of volunteers.  It is not trying to denigrate
those who contribute rarely; it's just making a different point.

> Of course, we may dispute whether all volunteers are a part of
> community; but the main point here is whether the current official
> Wikimedia Foundation number of "a global community of more than 150,000
> volunteers" isn't a serious under estimation?

Again, no, once you understand the meaning of the phrase.

> Do we know the global edit redistribution per users? I.e. how many users
> made 0 edits, how many made 1, how many made 10,000... a graph would be
> quite useful.

This can be calculated from the dumps.  I haven't seen any with that
level of granularity.

Matt Flaschen


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Re: 150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

Felipe Ortega
 
> > Do we know the global edit redistribution per users?
> I.e. how many users
> > made 0 edits, how many made 1, how many made 10,000...
> a graph would be
> > quite useful.
>

I've done so in my thesis. Sorry to say that I'm still finishing it, so I hope it will be published in short. I've focused on logged authors in the top ten Wikipedias, and for all versions it seems to follow and upper truncated Pareto distribution. I've done the same with mane other parameters (articles per author, authors per article, and so forth).

We have discover a bunch of more interesting things, so please allow me a few more days and I'll post the figures on our website and on WikiXRay page.

Best,

Felipe.
 

> This can be calculated from the dumps.  I haven't seen
> any with that
> level of granularity.
>
> Matt Flaschen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l


     

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Re: 150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

White Cat
In reply to this post by Piotr Konieczny-2
A lot of registered accounts make 0 edits. This makes them neither a contributor nor a vandal

   - White Cat

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
Getting any reliable estimates on our community has always been
difficult. However, recently, in official Wikimedia Foundation
announcements and such (ex.
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Letter/en?utm_source=2008_jimmy_letter_r&utm_medium=sitenotice&utm_campaign=fundraiser2008#appeal)
 the number "a global community of more than 150,000 volunteers"
appeared. I would very much like to now - what date is it based on?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians gives 8.5 million
registered accounts. Of course many of those are duplicates, but then
there are many unregistered contributors... still, my own guesstimate
would be at at least half a million - if not several millions - of
people who had edited Wikipedia (in any language, ove the past ~8
years). This guesstimate is based on analysis of a small sample of
editors I know and how many accounts they've created (which for a vast
majority is ONE). Sure, there are sockpuppet vandals, but... do we
really have 150,000 volunteers, maybe as much legitimate socks/bots, and
over 8 millions vandal sockpuppet accounts???

--
Piotr Konieczny

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Re: 150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

Nicholas Moreau
Agreed, 0 edits accounts are normal.

If you're if a university or a dorm, and don't want to have the bright
orange talk bar illuminating every week (because of other people's
vandalism on that IP), a permanently logged-in account does a world of
good. Similarly, there's people that are easily annoyed by the
fundraising message bar, which can be dismissed, only if you have an
account.

Nick/user:zanimum



2009/1/6 White Cat <[hidden email]>:
> A lot of registered accounts make 0 edits. This makes them neither a
> contributor nor a vandal
>    - White Cat

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Re: 150, 000 volunteers... and 8 milion vandal sock accounts?

Mathias Schindler-2
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:18 PM, Nicholas Moreau
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Agreed, 0 edits accounts are normal.
>

Please keep in mind that depending on which tool you use to calculate
the number of edits of a given account, you might miss edits in
articles that have been deleted since then.

I would not right now dispute the claim that the majority of
0edit-accounts are actually accounts that have never edited.

Mathias

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