A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com

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Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com

geni
On 4/23/07, cohesion <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm not opposed to having opt-out advertising on wikipedia.org,

Unless the foundation is going to go bankrupt in the next week I think
not. Ads will always impact nutrality and will also produce a new line
of spam attacks (add your ad keywords to Asbestosis so that your add
turns up more often).

--
geni

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Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com

Florence Devouard-3
In reply to this post by Rich Holton
Rich Holton wrote:

> David Gerard wrote:
>> On 23/04/07, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> non-profit way? I find it, for lack of a better word, asinine to
>>> justify ads with all the great things we could do if we had money.
>>> Shouldn't we have a much better idea of what these great things are
>>> _before_ we try to get more money?
>>
>> Think of the ad money, think of things to do with it, then add them to the list!
>>
>> (where's the list?)
>>
>>
>> - d.
>
> CAIAPHAS:
> Think of the things you can do with that money
> Choose any charity - give to the poor
> We've noted your motives - we've noted your feelings
> This isn't blood money - it's a fee nothing
> Fee nothing, fee nothing more.


an ad
at the fork of the road
fine dining


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Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com

Platonides
In reply to this post by Delphine Ménard
Nice :)


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Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com

Alison M. Wheeler
In reply to this post by Rich Holton
On Mon, April 23, 2007 14:43, Rich Holton wrote:
> CAIAPHAS:
> Think of the things you can do with that money
> Choose any charity - give to the poor
> We've noted your motives - we've noted your feelings
> This isn't blood money - it's a fee nothing
> Fee nothing, fee nothing more.

Maybe the preceding line puts the suggestion better:

ANNAS:
But you might as well take it - we think that you shuold.

Personally, I think that putting *any* advertising on any of the wiki*.tld
sites that we own would reduce the impact of our message and be totally
misunderstood where it matters. ie:
ANNAS:
Cut the protesting, forget the excuses
We want information ...

Alison

ps. David G: could you tag your posts "[irony]" or "[humour]" as some
people reading them - especially if they aren't aware of your sense of
humour - might think you are being serious / sane!

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Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com

David Gerard-2
On 23/04/07, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ps. David G: could you tag your posts


There's a great big tag in the Subject: header, if you look closely.


- d.

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Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com

Snowolf
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
In my opinion, it's important that we don't split wikipedia between a .com
stable version and a .org editable one.

Ads will greatly influence our neutrality, we cannot be seen as a totally
free encyclopedia after such a move.

However, if we *really* need this, it can be considered. However, members
must have the choice to opt-out. But only if we really need it, not if it
can be simply useful. It must be an emergency situation, in my opinion.

~~~~~
Snowolf
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Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com

Rich Holton
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
Florence Devouard wrote:

> Rich Holton wrote:
>> David Gerard wrote:
>>> On 23/04/07, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> non-profit way? I find it, for lack of a better word, asinine to
>>>> justify ads with all the great things we could do if we had money.
>>>> Shouldn't we have a much better idea of what these great things are
>>>> _before_ we try to get more money?
>>> Think of the ad money, think of things to do with it, then add them to the list!
>>>
>>> (where's the list?)
>>>
>>>
>>> - d.
>> CAIAPHAS:
>> Think of the things you can do with that money
>> Choose any charity - give to the poor
>> We've noted your motives - we've noted your feelings
>> This isn't blood money - it's a fee nothing
>> Fee nothing, fee nothing more.
>
>
> an ad
> at the fork of the road
> fine dining
>
>
The above from
"traveling", _A Dictionary of Haiku_ by Jane Reichhold.
For those following along, my original non-sequitur was from "Damned for
All Time", from Jesus Christ Superstar


This is easy, but somehow appropriate:

Do not stand at the fork of the road
To cut down their fugitives;
And do not imprison their survivors
In the day of their distress.

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Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by Alison M. Wheeler
Alison Wheeler wrote:

>ps. David G: could you tag your posts "[irony]" or "[humour]" as some
>people reading them - especially if they aren't aware of your sense of
>humour - might think you are being serious / sane!
>
I'm sorry, but I most often find David's irony and humour perfectly
comprehensible.  Your suggestion is akin to putting American subtitles
on a Monty Python movie. ;-)

Ec


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Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
David Gerard wrote:

>On 23/04/07, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>ps. David G: could you tag your posts
>>    
>>
>There's a great big tag in the Subject: header, if you look closely.
>
Your "modesty" is commendable.

Ec



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Why not use Nupedia.com instead? (was Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com)

Daniel Mayer
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
--- David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How about using the old domain, wikipedia.com, as a site for stable
> Wikipedia versions, with ads on? The ad money, as well as paying our
> comparatively small hosting and staff costs, could go toward
> educational programmes for those people who could benefit from our
> hard work but *aren't* comfortable, well-fed first-world citizens.

I think it would be confusing to use wikipedia.com for this since the distinction is non-obvious
to pretty much any non-geek. It is simply too fine a distinction.
 
However, A long time ago, I had the same idea for the use of the Nupedia.com domain. If that were
done by a spin-off of Wikimedia (let's call it Nupedia Publishing for the sake of conversion),
then they could use that revenue to fund a printed/DVD version for sale and donate money back into
Wikimedia. The relationship would be symbiotic and not dissimilar to the relationship between
Linux distros and the Linux development community.

Having a separate legal entity for publishing helps the Foundation avoid a lot of potential legal
liability and keeps our goal on content production/improvement and the methods of dissemination
that directly support content production/improvement (e.g. wikis on the Internet). Of course,
IANAL.

> (As far as I can tell, pretty much all opposition to ads on Wikimedia
> comes from people who are in fact comfortable, well-fed first-world
> citizens. I eagerly await news and demographics otherwise.)

Some of us, including me, being in the overfed subcategory of first worlders. :) Alas, so are my
cats…

-- mav


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Why not use Nupedia.com instead? (was Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com)

Daniel Mayer
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
--- David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How about using the old domain, wikipedia.com, as a site for stable
> Wikipedia versions, with ads on? The ad money, as well as paying our
> comparatively small hosting and staff costs, could go toward
> educational programmes for those people who could benefit from our
> hard work but *aren't* comfortable, well-fed first-world citizens.

I think it would be confusing to use wikipedia.com for this since the distinction is non-obvious
to pretty much any non-geek. It is simply too fine a distinction.
 
However, A long time ago, I had the same idea for the use of the Nupedia.com domain. If that were
done by a spin-off of Wikimedia (let's call it Nupedia Publishing for the sake of conversion),
then they could use that revenue to fund a printed/DVD version for sale and donate money back into
Wikimedia. The relationship would be symbiotic and not dissimilar to the relationship between
Linux distros and the Linux development community.

Having a separate legal entity for publishing helps the Foundation avoid a lot of potential legal
liability and keeps our goal on content production/improvement and the methods of dissemination
that directly support content production/improvement (e.g. wikis on the Internet). Of course,
IANAL.

> (As far as I can tell, pretty much all opposition to ads on Wikimedia
> comes from people who are in fact comfortable, well-fed first-world
> citizens. I eagerly await news and demographics otherwise.)

Some of us, including me, being in the overfed subcategory of first worlders. :) Alas, so are my
cats…

-- mav


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Re: Why not use Nupedia.com instead? (was Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com)

geni
In reply to this post by Daniel Mayer
On 5/5/07, Daniel Mayer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think it would be confusing to use wikipedia.com for this since the distinction is non-obvious
> to pretty much any non-geek. It is simply too fine a distinction.
>
> However, A long time ago, I had the same idea for the use of the Nupedia.com domain. If that were
> done by a spin-off of Wikimedia (let's call it Nupedia Publishing for the sake of conversion),
> then they could use that revenue to fund a printed/DVD version for sale and donate money back into
> Wikimedia. The relationship would be symbiotic and not dissimilar to the relationship between
> Linux distros and the Linux development community.
>
> Having a separate legal entity for publishing helps the Foundation avoid a lot of potential legal
> liability and keeps our goal on content production/improvement and the methods of dissemination
> that directly support content production/improvement (e.g. wikis on the Internet). Of course,
> IANAL.
>

The odds of any such company being able to compete effectivly with
answers.com and the like are minimal.


--
geni

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Re: Why not use Nupedia.com instead? (was Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com)

Daniel Mayer
--- geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The odds of any such company being able to compete effectivly with
> answers.com and the like are minimal.

Not if Wikipedia.org articles direct people there as the official repository of stable/vetted
versions. Anyway - it is just an idea I decided to throw out there in response to the idea of
using wikipedia.com for pretty much the same thing.

-- mav

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Re: Why not use Nupedia.com instead? (was Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com)

Erik Moeller-4
On 5/5/07, Daniel Mayer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Not if Wikipedia.org articles direct people there as the official repository of
> stable/vetted versions.

I am opposed to the notion that higher accuracy / reliability is an
added value that people have to pay for with advertising. These should
be intrinsic properties of Wikipedia itself.

If anything, we need fewer brands, not more.

--
Peace & Love,
Erik

DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of
the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.

"An old, rigid civilization is reluctantly dying. Something new, open,
free and exciting is waking up." -- Ming the Mechanic

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Re: Why not use Nupedia.com instead? (was Re: A modest proposal: ads on wikipedia.com)

shi zhao
Nupedia similarity Citizendium model?

2007/5/6, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]>:

> On 5/5/07, Daniel Mayer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Not if Wikipedia.org articles direct people there as the official repository of
> > stable/vetted versions.
>
> I am opposed to the notion that higher accuracy / reliability is an
> added value that people have to pay for with advertising. These should
> be intrinsic properties of Wikipedia itself.
>
> If anything, we need fewer brands, not more.
>
> --
> Peace & Love,
> Erik
>
> DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of
> the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.
>
> "An old, rigid civilization is reluctantly dying. Something new, open,
> free and exciting is waking up." -- Ming the Mechanic
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


--
Chinese wikipedia: http://zh.wikipedia.org/
My blog: http://talk.blogbus.com
CNBlog: http://blog.cnblog.org/weblog.html
Social Brain: http://www.socialbrain.org/default.asp
cnbloggercon: http://www.cnbloggercon.org/

[[zh:User:Shizhao]]

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