About page ID

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About page ID

Alex Brollo
Is there a sound reason to hidden so well the main id of pages? Is there
any drawback to show it anywhere into wikies, and to use it much largely
for links and API calls?

Alex brollo
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Re: About page ID

Bináris
2012/2/18 Alex Brollo <[hidden email]>

> Is there a sound reason to hidden so well the main id of pages? Is there
> any drawback to show it anywhere into wikies, and to use it much largely
> for links and API calls?
>
> Deleting and restoring/recreating results in a new id, and pages take
their id upon renaming; is the id still useful for linking with these
limitations? I just ask it because it is not perfectly clean for me what
you mean by that.


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Re: About page ID

John Erling Blad
In some cases it would be better to linke on article ids than their
names, something like
http://en.wikipedia.org/aid/123456

One example is as a link to an article in Wikipedia from tweet posted
through the Twitter API.

John

On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Bináris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2012/2/18 Alex Brollo <[hidden email]>
>
>> Is there a sound reason to hidden so well the main id of pages? Is there
>> any drawback to show it anywhere into wikies, and to use it much largely
>> for links and API calls?
>>
>> Deleting and restoring/recreating results in a new id, and pages take
> their id upon renaming; is the id still useful for linking with these
> limitations? I just ask it because it is not perfectly clean for me what
> you mean by that.
>
>
> --
> Bináris
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: About page ID

Petr Onderka
You can do that, only the URL is slightly longer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki?curid=2312711

Although I don't understand what would be the benefit of doing that.

Petr Onderka
[[User:Svick]]

On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 14:09, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In some cases it would be better to linke on article ids than their
> names, something like
> http://en.wikipedia.org/aid/123456
>
> One example is as a link to an article in Wikipedia from tweet posted
> through the Twitter API.
>
> John
>
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Bináris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 2012/2/18 Alex Brollo <[hidden email]>
>>
>>> Is there a sound reason to hidden so well the main id of pages? Is there
>>> any drawback to show it anywhere into wikies, and to use it much largely
>>> for links and API calls?
>>>
>>> Deleting and restoring/recreating results in a new id, and pages take
>> their id upon renaming; is the id still useful for linking with these
>> limitations? I just ask it because it is not perfectly clean for me what
>> you mean by that.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bináris
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: About page ID

Bergi
In reply to this post by Alex Brollo
Alex Brollo schrieb:
> Is there a sound reason to hidden so well the main id of pages? Is there
> any drawback to show it anywhere into wikies, and to use it much largely
> for links and API calls?

Not for API calls, but for links. For the API you can use
mw.config.get("wgArticleId") without problems, but there are some
downsides to use the page ID in regular links:
* a link should show the page title, not just a intransparent number
* pretty urls, see also http://www.mediawiki.org/?curid=2852 (???)
* the id may stay consistent when moving a page, but that should be done
with redirects. But when a page was deleted, having only the uri
(http://de.wikipedia.org/?curid=6770594) won't help you anything
("invalid title"). But visiting http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurmina,
you will see at least the deletion log.

There was also a discussion at
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Projektdiskussion/WP_-_Teil_des_www,
since then we have a gadget in deWP to show a secont permanent link with
curid.
For technical documentation you may have a look at
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL.

Regards,
  Bergi

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Re: About page ID

John Erling Blad
In reply to this post by Petr Onderka
Yes I know you can do that, and in fact its what I do right now. The
problem is that a few extra chars has a lot of impact in Twitter. A
betetr approach would be if it was legal to write something like
wikipedia.org/en/123456789 (26 chars) compared to
en.wikipedia.org/aid/123456789 (30 chars) or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki?curid=123456789 (44 chars). To get around
the problem I use bit.ly for a bot, but its a bit stupid to not handle
this in wikipedia itself.

John

On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Petr Onderka <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can do that, only the URL is slightly longer:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki?curid=2312711
>
> Although I don't understand what would be the benefit of doing that.
>
> Petr Onderka
> [[User:Svick]]
>
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 14:09, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> In some cases it would be better to linke on article ids than their
>> names, something like
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/aid/123456
>>
>> One example is as a link to an article in Wikipedia from tweet posted
>> through the Twitter API.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Bináris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> 2012/2/18 Alex Brollo <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> Is there a sound reason to hidden so well the main id of pages? Is there
>>>> any drawback to show it anywhere into wikies, and to use it much largely
>>>> for links and API calls?
>>>>
>>>> Deleting and restoring/recreating results in a new id, and pages take
>>> their id upon renaming; is the id still useful for linking with these
>>> limitations? I just ask it because it is not perfectly clean for me what
>>> you mean by that.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bináris
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: About page ID

Alex Brollo
Thanks! I'll save this talk as a reference.

Really my question was focused on possibile risks or safety issues; it's so
strange that a database (since I see wikisource as a database) is mainly
indexed, from the user's point of view, on a variable field as title of the
page, that I suspected some serious safety issue. And - strangely enough -
id is not shown at all into pages, nor there's any magic word or other user
friendly method to get it.

From a practical point of view, many from wikisource page titles are very
long, often they use non-ascii characters and mixtures of capitalized and
not capitalized characters, they can't be used as they are as local file
names... in brief, I feel all this stuff almost as annoying as the
apostophes used in wiki markup for bold and italic. ;-)

Alex
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Re: About page ID

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by John Erling Blad
John Erling Blad wrote:
> In some cases it would be better to linke on article ids than their
> names, something like
> http://en.wikipedia.org/aid/123456
>
> One example is as a link to an article in Wikipedia from tweet posted
> through the Twitter API.

People interested in prettier URLs should follow these bugs:

* https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/1450
* https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/16659
* https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/17981

MZMcBride



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Re: About page ID

[[w:en:User:Madman]]
In reply to this post by John Erling Blad
On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 8:36 AM, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yes I know you can do that, and in fact its what I do right now. The
> problem is that a few extra chars has a lot of impact in Twitter. A
> betetr approach would be if it was legal to write something like
> wikipedia.org/en/123456789 (26 chars) compared to
> en.wikipedia.org/aid/123456789 (30 chars) or
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki?curid=123456789 (44 chars). To get around
> the problem I use bit.ly for a bot, but its a bit stupid to not handle
> this in wikipedia itself.

This seems moot to me because it's handled in *Twitter* itself. All
URLs in a tweet are converted to t.co shortcuts that are twenty
characters long (while abbreviated versions of the destination URLs
should be shown when the tweet is viewed). More information is here:
http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-api-announce/browse_thread/thread/14d5474c13ed84aa.

Madman

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Re: About page ID

John Erling Blad
Some of the urls to Wikipedia will fail when converted by the
mechanism in Twitter, so you either must use the ugly url in the tweet
or use a short url. Because you usually want to control the overall
length you must convert it to a short url before you know how long it
will be.

In my opinion it wold be better if there was a simple way to generate
short urls that also identified Wikipedia as such.

John

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 12:38 AM, [[w:en:User:Madman]]
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 8:36 AM, John Erling Blad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Yes I know you can do that, and in fact its what I do right now. The
>> problem is that a few extra chars has a lot of impact in Twitter. A
>> betetr approach would be if it was legal to write something like
>> wikipedia.org/en/123456789 (26 chars) compared to
>> en.wikipedia.org/aid/123456789 (30 chars) or
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki?curid=123456789 (44 chars). To get around
>> the problem I use bit.ly for a bot, but its a bit stupid to not handle
>> this in wikipedia itself.
>
> This seems moot to me because it's handled in *Twitter* itself. All
> URLs in a tweet are converted to t.co shortcuts that are twenty
> characters long (while abbreviated versions of the destination URLs
> should be shown when the tweet is viewed). More information is here:
> http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-api-announce/browse_thread/thread/14d5474c13ed84aa.
>
> Madman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: About page ID

Sumana Harihareswara-2
On 02/19/2012 01:10 AM, John Erling Blad wrote:

> Some of the urls to Wikipedia will fail when converted by the
> mechanism in Twitter, so you either must use the ugly url in the tweet
> or use a short url. Because you usually want to control the overall
> length you must convert it to a short url before you know how long it
> will be.
>
> In my opinion it wold be better if there was a simple way to generate
> short urls that also identified Wikipedia as such.
>
> John

There is an extension for this: ShortURL:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ShortUrl

It's being reviewed and prepared for deployment on Wikimedia wikis:

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1450

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Review_queue

--
Sumana Harihareswara
Volunteer Development Coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: About page ID

rotsee

> > In my opinion it wold be better if there was a simple way to generate
> > short urls that also identified Wikipedia as such.
> >
> > John
>
> There is an extension for this: ShortURL:
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ShortUrl

I just tried that out with an external domain on my wiki, and it works very well: sasm.at/244 (11 characters) will now redirect to säsongsmat.nu/ssm/Recept:Sl%C3%A5nb%C3%A4rssaft_%C3%A0_la_Gusem%C3%A5la (71 characters)
If someone wants to use it the same way, I wrote a short tutorial here: http://blog.xn--ssongsmat-v2a.nu/2012/02/20/creating-a-url-shortener-with-mediawiki/
Leo Wallentin    
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Leo Wallentin
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Twitter: @leo_wallentin
Säsongsmat.nu
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Re: About page ID

Brion Vibber
In reply to this post by Sumana Harihareswara-2
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Sumana Harihareswara <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> On 02/19/2012 01:10 AM, John Erling Blad wrote:
> > Some of the urls to Wikipedia will fail when converted by the
> > mechanism in Twitter, so you either must use the ugly url in the tweet
> > or use a short url. Because you usually want to control the overall
> > length you must convert it to a short url before you know how long it
> > will be.
> >
> > In my opinion it wold be better if there was a simple way to generate
> > short urls that also identified Wikipedia as such.
>
> There is an extension for this: ShortURL:
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ShortUrl
>

ShortUrl actually works by assigning a new ID number to represent a *page
title*. This means that shortened links to a particular title will survive
deletion/undeletion etc, and they still rely on redirects to handle page
renames and things.

I proposed using page id instead, but being a title-equivalent makes a lot
of sense for linking since it'll retain the same semantics as linking with
the full title URL.


IIRC this ext was originally devised for the Indic-language wikis, which
tend to have vvvveeeerrrryyyy long illegible URLs because of the way
characters are encoded (nine characters of URL for each character of
title!).

-- brion
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