Admin meeting

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Admin meeting

daniwo59
Hello
 
I want to toss the idea around of having an online meeting of all admins on  
the English wikipedia. The reasons are simple:
 
1. A chance to get to know one another.
2. A chance to share some insights from the Foundation office as to what is  
happening in the "big picture."
3. A chance to exchange ideas on dealing with vandalism and other problems.
4. A chance to discuss some existing policies.
 
If there is enough interest, I will set a time for this meeting. Because of  
the nature of the discussions, it will be limited access.
 
Danny
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Re: Admin meeting

Andrew Gray
On 22/01/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1. A chance to get to know one another.
> 2. A chance to share some insights from the Foundation office as to what is
> happening in the "big picture."
> 3. A chance to exchange ideas on dealing with vandalism and other problems.
> 4. A chance to discuss some existing policies.
>
> If there is enough interest, I will set a time for this meeting. Because of
> the nature of the discussions, it will be limited access.

You might be better served having two or three meetings, say eight
hours apart on a Sunday - it's an interesting idea, but a lot of
people.

(We'll have eight hundred admins within a week!)

--
- Andrew Gray
  [hidden email]
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Re: Admin meeting

MacGyverMagic/Mgm
How many you can get together depends on the date and the time. Time zones
can be a royal pain in the...

Mgm


On 1/22/06, Andrew Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 22/01/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > 1. A chance to get to know one another.
> > 2. A chance to share some insights from the Foundation office as to what
> is
> > happening in the "big picture."
> > 3. A chance to exchange ideas on dealing with vandalism and other
> problems.
> > 4. A chance to discuss some existing policies.
> >
> > If there is enough interest, I will set a time for this meeting. Because
> of
> > the nature of the discussions, it will be limited access.
>
> You might be better served having two or three meetings, say eight
> hours apart on a Sunday - it's an interesting idea, but a lot of
> people.
>
> (We'll have eight hundred admins within a week!)
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
> [hidden email]
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
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Re: Admin meeting

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
In reply to this post by daniwo59
On 1/22/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello
>
> I want to toss the idea around of having an online meeting of all admins
> on
> the English wikipedia. The reasons are simple:
>
> 1. A chance to get to know one another.
> 2. A chance to share some insights from the Foundation office as to what
> is
> happening in the "big picture."
> 3. A chance to exchange ideas on dealing with vandalism and other
> problems.
> 4. A chance to discuss some existing policies.
>
> If there is enough interest, I will set a time for this meeting. Because
> of
> the nature of the discussions, it will be limited access.
>
> Danny
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

I presume by online you mean Internet Relay Chat?

--
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, AKA. Cimon avaro
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Re: Admin meeting

Fred Bauder
In reply to this post by daniwo59
How about an admin only IRC channel and mailing list?

Fred

On Jan 22, 2006, at 5:27 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hello
>
> I want to toss the idea around of having an online meeting of all  
> admins on
> the English wikipedia. The reasons are simple:
>
> 1. A chance to get to know one another.
> 2. A chance to share some insights from the Foundation office as to  
> what is
> happening in the "big picture."
> 3. A chance to exchange ideas on dealing with vandalism and other  
> problems.
> 4. A chance to discuss some existing policies.
>
> If there is enough interest, I will set a time for this meeting.  
> Because of
> the nature of the discussions, it will be limited access.
>
> Danny
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

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Re: Admin meeting

geni
On 1/22/06, Fred Bauder <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How about an admin only IRC channel and mailing list?
>
> Fred

No we should try and keep things as open as posible.

--
geni
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Re: Admin meeting

daniwo59
In reply to this post by daniwo59
The fact that there are so many admins is one of teh key reasons why I  think
that such a meeting is so important. It is vital for people to get to know  
one another a little better and see who the active admins are.
 
At the same time, I also think it is important that the admins be made  aware
of some things on a Foundation level. What should they be looking out for?  
How can they resolve problems effectively? What are the exact policities and  
when (gasp) should these policies be overlooked in the larger interest of the  
project?
 
The meeting would take place on IRC as Cimon suggested. I think Fred's  ideas
are excellent, and we can certainly consider implementing an admin only  IRC
channel and mailing list. These are things that can be brought up at the  
meeting.
 
I realize that the meeting will be clumsy at first because of all the  people
involved. I would like, however, to suggest that we try it and see  how many
people actually show up. We can, of course, have additional meetings as  
necessary, and may realize that one meeting is impractical. As a full-time  
Wikipedian, I will make a point of being at any meeting suggested.
 
Suggested time, anyone?
 
Danny
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Re: Admin meeting

Fl Celloguy
In reply to this post by daniwo59
>How about an admin only IRC channel and mailing list?
>
>Fred
>
>On Jan 22, 2006, at 5:27 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> > Hello
> >
> > I want to toss the idea around of having an online meeting of all
> > admins on
> > the English wikipedia. The reasons are simple:
> >
> > 1. A chance to get to know one another.
> > 2. A chance to share some insights from the Foundation office as to
> > what is
> > happening in the "big picture."
> > 3. A chance to exchange ideas on dealing with vandalism and other
> > problems.
> > 4. A chance to discuss some existing policies.
> >
> > If there is enough interest, I will set a time for this meeting.
> > Because of
> > the nature of the discussions, it will be limited access.
> >
> > Danny

An admin-only mailing list is a good idea. Nl (Dutch) Wikipedia has had one
for some time, but then again, they have less than 100 administrators. Would
it be possible to set up such a mailing list for en?

Thanks!

Flcelloguy
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

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Re: Admin meeting

Kelly Martin-3
In reply to this post by daniwo59
On 1/22/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello
>
> I want to toss the idea around of having an online meeting of all admins on
> the English wikipedia. The reasons are simple:
>
> 1. A chance to get to know one another.
> 2. A chance to share some insights from the Foundation office as to what is
> happening in the "big picture."
> 3. A chance to exchange ideas on dealing with vandalism and other problems.
> 4. A chance to discuss some existing policies.
>
> If there is enough interest, I will set a time for this meeting. Because of
> the nature of the discussions, it will be limited access.

Keep in mind that there are nearly 800 admins on en.  It's going to be
hard to hold a meeting with so many people.

Kelly
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Re: Re: Admin meeting

geni
In reply to this post by daniwo59
On 1/22/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
> At the same time, I also think it is important that the admins be made  aware
> of some things on a Foundation level. What should they be looking out for?
> How can they resolve problems effectively? What are the exact policities and
> when (gasp) should these policies be overlooked in the larger interest of the
> project?
>


No all users should be able to find that out not just admins.

> The meeting would take place on IRC as Cimon suggested. I think Fred's  ideas
> are excellent, and we can certainly consider implementing an admin only  IRC
> channel and mailing list. These are things that can be brought up at the
> meeting.
>

Well since I can't get on IRC let me just say that the idea of an
admin only mailing list has serious problems in terms of openess and
createing cliques.

--
geni
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Re: Re: Admin meeting

Kelly Martin-3
On 1/22/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> No all users should be able to find that out not just admins.

There are Foundation-level issues that need to be kept to some degree
of confidence.  Although, frankly, I think "all admins" is too broad
of a level to release most of those items because, quite frankly, we
have a great many untrustworthy admins.

> Well since I can't get on IRC let me just say that the idea of an
> admin only mailing list has serious problems in terms of openess and
> createing cliques.

Wikipedia is overrun with cliques.  It would be a good thing, in my
opinion, if some of the more powerful ones were formalized; maybe then
something good would come out of them.

Kelly
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Re: Re: Admin meeting

geni
On 1/22/06, Kelly Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 1/22/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > No all users should be able to find that out not just admins.
>
> There are Foundation-level issues that need to be kept to some degree
> of confidence.

Then they stay at foundation level.

>
> Wikipedia is overrun with cliques.  It would be a good thing, in my
> opinion, if some of the more powerful ones were formalized; maybe then
> something good would come out of them.
>
> Kelly

Insitutionalised cliques are a pain to get rid of when they become a problem.

--
geni
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Re: Re: Admin meeting

Haukur Þorgeirsson
In reply to this post by Kelly Martin-3
> There are Foundation-level issues that need to be kept to some degree
> of confidence.  Although, frankly, I think "all admins" is too broad
> of a level to release most of those items because, quite frankly, we
> have a great many untrustworthy admins.

Trustworthy or not there are hundreds of active admins. Anything discussed
in an Internet forum with hundreds of people is very close to being public
information.

Most of the regulars on wikien-l are old hands anyhow. I'm not sure if
you'd get a substantially different forum by creating an admin-only list.

In any case it would mean a substantial change in what it means to be an
administrator. This should be well advertised and discussed before it
happens.

Regards,
Haukur

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Re: Re: Admin meeting

Kelly Martin-3
In reply to this post by geni
On 1/22/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Insitutionalised cliques are a pain to get rid of when they become a problem.

Uninstitutionalized cliques are even harder to get rid of.

Kelly
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Re: Re: Admin meeting

Kelly Martin-3
In reply to this post by geni
On 1/22/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > There are Foundation-level issues that need to be kept to some degree
> > of confidence.
>
> Then they stay at foundation level.

There aren't enough people at "foundation level" to deal with them.
They *have* to push them out to the people on the ground or they won't
get done.

Apparently, we need some level between "admin" and "steward"/"board
member", since our admins are little more than a ragtag bunch of
rabble anyway.

Kelly
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Re: Re: Admin meeting

geni
On 1/22/06, Kelly Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/22/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > There are Foundation-level issues that need to be kept to some degree
> > > of confidence.
> >
> > Then they stay at foundation level.
>
> There aren't enough people at "foundation level" to deal with them.
> They *have* to push them out to the people on the ground or they won't
> get done.
>

That may not be the case anymore:

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolutions

> Apparently, we need some level between "admin" and "steward"/"board
> member", since our admins are little more than a ragtag bunch of
> rabble anyway.
>
> Kelly

You appear to have serious issue with our admins. For the most part
they are good people doing thier best (ok for the most part they are
inactive but that is a seperate issue).

--
geni
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Re: Re: Admin meeting

Kelly Martin-3
On 1/22/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You appear to have serious issue with our admins. For the most part
> they are good people doing thier best (ok for the most part they are
> inactive but that is a seperate issue).

Well, for the most part, yes.  But there are enough that are a
problem, and enough more after that that are just clueless (in some
cases, terminally so) that I refuse to generically trust all admins.

Kelly
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Re: Re: Admin meeting

Haukur Þorgeirsson
In reply to this post by Kelly Martin-3
> There aren't enough people at "foundation level" to deal with them.
> They *have* to push them out to the people on the ground or they won't
> get done.

Yes! What I think we need is better communication between the foundation
level people and the hard-working editors on the ground. Brief
announcements on this mailing list in the form of "Problem X is really
getting serious, let's solve it with solution Y" are not enough. We need
some mechanism down on the wiki itself for the foundation level people to
get important information across to everyone interested.

If you find that you roll out solution Y and it gets pounded with deletion
votes within minutes then you're doing something wrong. You have to really
make the case to people why problem X is serious and how solution Y will
help. Or maybe you just describe the problem clearly and let the people on
the ground figure out if solution Y, Z or W is the best one.

When good people have good information available they will act sensibly.
Wikipedians are good people. Give us as good information as you can.

Regards,
Haukur

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Re: Admin meeting

Puddl Duk
In reply to this post by geni
> > How about an admin only IRC channel and mailing list?
> >
> > Fred
>
> No we should try and keep things as open as posible.
>
> --
> geni

I would support this idea as long as the mailing list archives were public.
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Re: Re: Admin meeting

Kelly Martin-3
In reply to this post by Haukur Þorgeirsson
On 1/22/06, Haukur Þorgeirsson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yes! What I think we need is better communication between the foundation
> level people and the hard-working editors on the ground. Brief
> announcements on this mailing list in the form of "Problem X is really
> getting serious, let's solve it with solution Y" are not enough. We need
> some mechanism down on the wiki itself for the foundation level people to
> get important information across to everyone interested.

Obviously what is really required is an embassy between wikien and the
Foundation.

Kelly
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