Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

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Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

jmerkey-3

Mr. Brandt has posted a long listing of articles to his website making
allegations of plagurism
of wikipedia articles from copyrighted sources.

http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/psamples.html

Some editors may want to investigate these claims to determine if the
articles were copied from
(Wikipedia -> these sites) or the other way around (these sites ->
Wikipedia).

I did receive a notice on a couple of the articles I had uploaded to
Wikigadugi from the XML dumps
along with some comments about "looking into possible copyright
infringement" from one of the sites
Brandt references which brought this matter to my attention in the first
place.  Someone should probably
go over these articles and determine if these claims have merit.

I am not going to take down anythig from Wikigadugi right now since I am
unable to determine if the
articles were copied FROM Wikipedia or the other way around.

Jeff
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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

Gregory Maxwell
On 10/23/06, Jeff V. Merkey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Mr. Brandt has posted a long listing of articles to his website making
> allegations of plagurism
> of wikipedia articles from copyrighted sources.

Good fortune is when you can count on your detractors to help you with
your goals. :)

In any case, I wish Brandt had done a little more homework because
while I have no doubt that some of his findings are legitimate
problems, some of them quite clearly are not.

For example, his second case, [[Charles Wheatstone]], has a large
amount of text copied from Heroes of the Telegraph by John Munro
(1849-1930) [http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=979].
This has been documented on the talk page all along. Brandt claims the
text came from some other site but what we have is a case of another
site copying the PD text without attribution.  A good example of why
attribution is important even when not required by law.

In any case, waiting a week or two then taking those articles from the
next dump should resolve any problems which you've had.

I find it interesting that people would complain to you prior to
complaining to Wikipedia.
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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

jmerkey-3
Gregory Maxwell wrote:

>On 10/23/06, Jeff V. Merkey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Mr. Brandt has posted a long listing of articles to his website making
>>allegations of plagurism
>>of wikipedia articles from copyrighted sources.
>>    
>>
>
>Good fortune is when you can count on your detractors to help you with
>your goals. :)
>
>In any case, I wish Brandt had done a little more homework because
>while I have no doubt that some of his findings are legitimate
>problems, some of them quite clearly are not.
>
>For example, his second case, [[Charles Wheatstone]], has a large
>amount of text copied from Heroes of the Telegraph by John Munro
>(1849-1930) [http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=979].
>This has been documented on the talk page all along. Brandt claims the
>text came from some other site but what we have is a case of another
>site copying the PD text without attribution.  A good example of why
>attribution is important even when not required by law.
>
>In any case, waiting a week or two then taking those articles from the
>next dump should resolve any problems which you've had.
>
>I find it interesting that people would complain to you prior to
>complaining to Wikipedia.
>  
>
I suspect the complaints came both directions. Also, remember, My site
is watched
like a hawk from a large list of detractors. They fire off emails to my
ISP is a constant
deluge. The complaint came from my ISP directly after they received an
email
from someone (Al Petrofsky I suspect).

Jeff

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>  
>

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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

George William Herbert
In reply to this post by jmerkey-3
On 10/23/06, Jeff V. Merkey <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Mr. Brandt has posted a long listing of articles to his website making
> allegations of plagurism
> of wikipedia articles from copyrighted sources.
>
> http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/psamples.html
>
> Some editors may want to investigate these claims to determine if the
> articles were copied from
> (Wikipedia -> these sites) or the other way around (these sites ->
> Wikipedia).
>
> I did receive a notice on a couple of the articles I had uploaded to
> Wikigadugi from the XML dumps
> along with some comments about "looking into possible copyright
> infringement" from one of the sites
> Brandt references which brought this matter to my attention in the first
> place.  Someone should probably
> go over these articles and determine if these claims have merit.
>
> I am not going to take down anythig from Wikigadugi right now since I am
> unable to determine if the
> articles were copied FROM Wikipedia or the other way around.
>
> Jeff
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

I picked two at random - I can't get to his info page on [[John Glover
(general)]], and the info on the [[Julius L. Meier]] page does at first
glance seem a copyvio, but someone seems to have nuked the WP page
recently.  The text Brandt cites seems to be consistent with Google's cache.

Can someone with an admin bit inform us who's deleting these articles (or if
that was the only one, that one...)?


--
-george william herbert
[hidden email]
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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

jmerkey-3
In reply to this post by jmerkey-3
Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

>Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>
>  
>
>>On 10/23/06, Jeff V. Merkey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Mr. Brandt has posted a long listing of articles to his website making
>>>allegations of plagurism
>>>of wikipedia articles from copyrighted sources.
>>>  
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Good fortune is when you can count on your detractors to help you with
>>your goals. :)
>>
>>In any case, I wish Brandt had done a little more homework because
>>while I have no doubt that some of his findings are legitimate
>>problems, some of them quite clearly are not.
>>
>>For example, his second case, [[Charles Wheatstone]], has a large
>>amount of text copied from Heroes of the Telegraph by John Munro
>>(1849-1930) [http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=979].
>>This has been documented on the talk page all along. Brandt claims the
>>text came from some other site but what we have is a case of another
>>site copying the PD text without attribution.  A good example of why
>>attribution is important even when not required by law.
>>
>>In any case, waiting a week or two then taking those articles from the
>>next dump should resolve any problems which you've had.
>>
>>I find it interesting that people would complain to you prior to
>>complaining to Wikipedia.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>I suspect the complaints came both directions. Also, remember, My site
>is watched
>like a hawk from a large list of detractors. They fire off emails to my
>ISP is a constant
>deluge. The complaint came from my ISP directly after they received an
>email
>from someone (Al Petrofsky I suspect).
>
>Jeff
>  
>
They also have me listed in several image sites claiming I have images
from Wikipedia
that are copvio and both my site and WP are in violation. Since I have
not seen any DMCA
takedown notices, I don't know which images they are referring to.
Again, more of the
detractors and their whining.

... "Like being gummed to death by guppies...I just ignore them unless I
see something
more official".

Jeff

>  
>
>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
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>  
>

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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

geni
In reply to this post by George William Herbert
On 10/23/06, George Herbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I picked two at random - I can't get to his info page on [[John Glover
> (general)]], and the info on the [[Julius L. Meier]] page does at first
> glance seem a copyvio, but someone seems to have nuked the WP page
> recently.  The text Brandt cites seems to be consistent with Google's cache.
>
> Can someone with an admin bit inform us who's deleting these articles (or if
> that was the only one, that one...)?

Me to a large extent with help from W.marsh.

We sorted this out last night:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN#Plagiarism_Detector_Bot

--
geni
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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

Tomasz Wegrzanowski-2
In reply to this post by jmerkey-3
On 10/23/06, Jeff V. Merkey <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Mr. Brandt has posted a long listing of articles to his website making
> allegations of plagurism
> of wikipedia articles from copyrighted sources.
>
> http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/psamples.html
>
> Some editors may want to investigate these claims to determine if the
> articles were copied from
> (Wikipedia -> these sites) or the other way around (these sites ->
> Wikipedia).
>
> I did receive a notice on a couple of the articles I had uploaded to
> Wikigadugi from the XML dumps
> along with some comments about "looking into possible copyright
> infringement" from one of the sites
> Brandt references which brought this matter to my attention in the first
> place.  Someone should probably
> go over these articles and determine if these claims have merit.
>
> I am not going to take down anythig from Wikigadugi right now since I am
> unable to determine if the
> articles were copied FROM Wikipedia or the other way around.

Brandt is nothing more than a troll.

Any genuine anti-plagiarism bot would at least look
at article histories whether the allegedly "plagiarized" part
was added at once (possible plagiarism) or build step by
step (definitely plagiarism the other way). The trollbot
doesn't do that because it's not interested in truth, just
in building an impresive list of mostly false cases to
attract attention.

Just one example (the very first I looked at):
* http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/plagiarism/0233.html
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henryk_Sienkiewicz

The trollbot might have found some actual plagiarism
by chance (with so many cases it isn't completely
unlikely that at least one is genuine), but most of them
are certainly fakes, so I suggest completely ignoring
the troll and the trollbot.

--
Tomasz Wegrzanowski [ http://t-a-w.blogspot.com/ ]
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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

George William Herbert
In reply to this post by geni
On 10/23/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 10/23/06, George Herbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I picked two at random - I can't get to his info page on [[John Glover
> > (general)]], and the info on the [[Julius L. Meier]] page does at first
> > glance seem a copyvio, but someone seems to have nuked the WP page
> > recently.  The text Brandt cites seems to be consistent with Google's
> cache.
> >
> > Can someone with an admin bit inform us who's deleting these articles
> (or if
> > that was the only one, that one...)?
>
> Me to a large extent with help from W.marsh.
>
> We sorted this out last night:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN#Plagiarism_Detector_Bot
>
> --
> geni
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

Are you sure that the removals were appropriate?  On first inspection,
several of them seemed to be relatively minor and repairable plagarism.


--
-george william herbert
[hidden email]
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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

geni
On 10/23/06, George Herbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Are you sure that the removals were appropriate?  On first inspection,
> several of them seemed to be relatively minor and repairable plagarism.

I've been dealing with copyvios for long enough to know what I'm doing
despite what certian people think. In any case due to the GFDL
"fixing" would present issues.
--
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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

Gregory Maxwell
In reply to this post by Tomasz Wegrzanowski-2
On 10/23/06, Tomasz Wegrzanowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Brandt is nothing more than a troll.
> Any genuine anti-plagiarism bot would at least look
> at article histories whether the allegedly "plagiarized" part
> was added at once (possible plagiarism) or build step by
> step (definitely plagiarism the other way). The trollbot
> doesn't do that because it's not interested in truth, just
> in building an impresive list of mostly false cases to
> attract attention.
[snip]

No need for emotion. When he is helpful (intentionally or otherwise)
we should take his help, when he is not we should ignore him.

Having a bot check the history isn't so trivial, in any case.

More on topic:  A box of cookies for whomever ports the recent enwiki
automated detection advances (wherebot for example) to some of the
other languages which may currently be getting less oversight.
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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

James Hare
Mr. Merkey, you just may have what it takes to win a free box of cookies
from Greg Maxwell.

On 10/23/06, Gregory Maxwell <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 10/23/06, Tomasz Wegrzanowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Brandt is nothing more than a troll.
> > Any genuine anti-plagiarism bot would at least look
> > at article histories whether the allegedly "plagiarized" part
> > was added at once (possible plagiarism) or build step by
> > step (definitely plagiarism the other way). The trollbot
> > doesn't do that because it's not interested in truth, just
> > in building an impresive list of mostly false cases to
> > attract attention.
> [snip]
>
> No need for emotion. When he is helpful (intentionally or otherwise)
> we should take his help, when he is not we should ignore him.
>
> Having a bot check the history isn't so trivial, in any case.
>
> More on topic:  A box of cookies for whomever ports the recent enwiki
> automated detection advances (wherebot for example) to some of the
> other languages which may currently be getting less oversight.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

geni
In reply to this post by Gregory Maxwell
On 10/23/06, Gregory Maxwell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> No need for emotion. When he is helpful (intentionally or otherwise)
> we should take his help, when he is not we should ignore him.
>
> Having a bot check the history isn't so trivial, in any case.

The problem being the increased number of versions although I think
there is talk of working from databse dumps.


--
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Re: Allegations of Wikipedia plagurism by Brandt/Websites he has stirred up sending nasty notices

jmerkey-3
In reply to this post by James Hare
James Hare wrote:

>Mr. Merkey, you just may have what it takes to win a free box of cookies
>from Greg Maxwell.
>
>On 10/23/06, Gregory Maxwell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>On 10/23/06, Tomasz Wegrzanowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Brandt is nothing more than a troll.
>>>Any genuine anti-plagiarism bot would at least look
>>>at article histories whether the allegedly "plagiarized" part
>>>was added at once (possible plagiarism) or build step by
>>>step (definitely plagiarism the other way). The trollbot
>>>doesn't do that because it's not interested in truth, just
>>>in building an impresive list of mostly false cases to
>>>attract attention.
>>>      
>>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>No need for emotion. When he is helpful (intentionally or otherwise)
>>we should take his help, when he is not we should ignore him.
>>
>>Having a bot check the history isn't so trivial, in any case.
>>
>>More on topic:  A box of cookies for whomever ports the recent enwiki
>>automated detection advances (wherebot for example) to some of the
>>other languages which may currently be getting less oversight.
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>[hidden email]
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>    
>>
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>
I can take care of Cherokee and the Native Languages.

They will have a hard time evern KNOWING if its a copyvio in Cherokee
since only we can read it.

Jeff
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