Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

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Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

James Forrester-4
TL;DR: Today we are launching an alpha, opt-in version of the
VisualEditor[0] to the English Wikipedia. This will let editors create
and modify real articles visually, using a new system where the
articles they edit will look the same as when you read them, and their
changes show up as they type enter them — like writing a document in a
word processor. Please let us know what you think[1].


Why launch now?

We want our community of existing editors to get an idea of what the
VisualEditor will look like in the “real world” and start to give us
feedback about how well it integrates with how they edit right now,
and their thoughts on what aspects are the priorities in the coming
months.

The editor is at an early stage and is still missing significant
functions, which we will address in the coming months. Because of
this, we are mostly looking for feedback from experienced editors at
this point, because the editor is insufficient to really give them a
proper experience of editing. We don’t want to promise an easier
editing experience to new editors before it is ready.

As we develop improvements, they will be pushed every fortnight to the
wikis, allowing you to give us feedback[1] as we go and tell us what
next you want us to work on.


How can I try it out?

The VisualEditor is now available to all logged-in accounts on the
English Wikipedia as a new preference, switched off by default. If you
go to your “Preferences” screen and click into the “Editing” section,
it will have as an option labelled “Enable VisualEditor”).

Once enabled, for each article you can edit, you will get a second
editor tab labelled “VisualEditor” next to the “Edit” tab. If you
click this, after a little pause you will enter the VisualEditor. From
here, you can play around, edit and save real articles and get an idea
of what it will be like when complete.

At this early stage in our development, we recommend that after saving
any edits, you check whether they broke anything. All edits made with
the VisualEditor will show up in articles’ history tabs with a
“VisualEditor” tag next to them, so you can track what is happening.


Things to note

Slow to load - It will take some time for long complex pages to load
into the VisualEditor, and particularly-big ones may timeout after 60
seconds. This is because pages have to be loaded through Parsoid which
is also in its early stages, and is not yet optimised for deployment
and is currently uncached. In the future (a) Parsoid itself will be
much faster, (b) Parsoid will not depend on as many slow API calls,
and (c) it will be cached.

Odd-looking - we currently struggle with making the HTML we produce
look like you are used to seeing, so styling and so on may look a
little (or even very) odd. This hasn't been our priority to date, as
our focus has been on making sure we don't disrupt articles with the
VisualEditor by altering the wikitext (correct "round-tripping").

No editing references or templates - Blocks of content that we cannot
yet handle are uneditable; this is mostly references and templates
like infoboxes. Instead, when you mouse over them, they will be
hatched out and a tooltip will inform you that they have to be edited
via wikitext for now. You can select these items and delete them
entirely, however there is not yet a way to add ones in or edit them
currently (this will be a core piece of work post-December).

Incomplete editing - Some elements of "complex" formatting will
display and let you edit their contents, but not let users edit their
structure or add new entries - such as tables or definition lists.
This area of work will also be one of our priorities post-December.

No categories - Articles' "meta" items will not appear at all -
categories, langlinks, magic words etc.; these are preserved (so
editing won't disrupt them), but they not yet editable. Another area
for work post-December - our current plan is that they will be edited
through a "metadata flyout", with auto-suggestions and so on.

Poor browser support - Right now, we have only got VisualEditor to
work in the most modern versions of Firefox, Chrome and Safari. We
will find a way to support (at least) Internet Explorer post-December,
but it's going to be a significant piece of work and we have failed to
get it ready for now.

Articles and User pages only - The VisualEditor will only be enabled
for the article and user namespaces (so you can make changes in a
personal sandbox), and will not work with talk pages, templates,
categories, etc.. In time, we will build out the kinds of specialised
editing tools needed for non-articles, but our focus has been on
articles.


Final point

This is not the final form of the VisualEditor in lots of different
ways. We know of a number of bugs, and we expect you to find more. We
do not recommend people trying to use the VisualEditor for their
regular editing yet. We would love your feedback on what we have done
so far – whether it’s a problem you discovered, an aspect that you
find confusing, what area you think we should work on next, or
anything else, please do let us know.[1]


[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
Product Manager, VisualEditor
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

[hidden email] | @jdforrester

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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Erik Moeller-4
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 7:30 PM, James Forrester
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> TL;DR: Today we are launching an alpha, opt-in version of the
> VisualEditor[0] to the English Wikipedia. This will let editors create
> and modify real articles visually, using a new system where the
> articles they edit will look the same as when you read them, and their
> changes show up as they type enter them — like writing a document in a
> word processor. Please let us know what you think[1].

Congrats, team! :-D Being able to edit the Real Thing is indeed a huge
deal -- even if it's still the very very very (very) first release to
do so. A long road ahead, but maybe some sleep is in order. ;-)

The future just got a little more real.

Erik
--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Terry Chay
For Trevor to remember...

So we tried visually editing using the PS3 browser...

http://campl.us/nckV

Great job team! :-)

Sent from my <free corporate advertising removed at the request of the owner>

On Dec 11, 2012, at 10:07 PM, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 7:30 PM, James Forrester
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> TL;DR: Today we are launching an alpha, opt-in version of the
>> VisualEditor[0] to the English Wikipedia. This will let editors create
>> and modify real articles visually, using a new system where the
>> articles they edit will look the same as when you read them, and their
>> changes show up as they type enter them — like writing a document in a
>> word processor. Please let us know what you think[1].
>
> Congrats, team! :-D Being able to edit the Real Thing is indeed a huge
> deal -- even if it's still the very very very (very) first release to
> do so. A long road ahead, but maybe some sleep is in order. ;-)
>
> The future just got a little more real.
>
> Erik
> --
> Erik Möller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

lee worden
In reply to this post by James Forrester-4
Very exciting - congratulations!

I know these are early days for the VisualEditor, but is there a plan
for extension developers to be able to hook in to provide editing for
the things their extensions support?

Lee Worden
http://leeworden.net

On 12/11/2012 10:28 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> From: James Forrester<[hidden email]>
> To: Wikimedia developers<[hidden email]>,
> [hidden email]
> Subject: [Wikitech-l] Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available
> on the English Wikipedia
> Message-ID:
> <CAEWGtDWtQ5a-a=J8DN1vNmQH1J=[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> TL;DR: Today we are launching an alpha, opt-in version of the
> VisualEditor[0] to the English Wikipedia. This will let editors create
> and modify real articles visually, using a new system where the
> articles they edit will look the same as when you read them, and their
> changes show up as they type enter them ? like writing a document in a
> word processor. Please let us know what you think[1].
>
>
> Why launch now?
>
> We want our community of existing editors to get an idea of what the
> VisualEditor will look like in the ?real world? and start to give us
> feedback about how well it integrates with how they edit right now,
> and their thoughts on what aspects are the priorities in the coming
> months.
>
> The editor is at an early stage and is still missing significant
> functions, which we will address in the coming months. Because of
> this, we are mostly looking for feedback from experienced editors at
> this point, because the editor is insufficient to really give them a
> proper experience of editing. We don?t want to promise an easier
> editing experience to new editors before it is ready.
>
> As we develop improvements, they will be pushed every fortnight to the
> wikis, allowing you to give us feedback[1] as we go and tell us what
> next you want us to work on.
>
>
> How can I try it out?
>
> The VisualEditor is now available to all logged-in accounts on the
> English Wikipedia as a new preference, switched off by default. If you
> go to your ?Preferences? screen and click into the ?Editing? section,
> it will have as an option labelled ?Enable VisualEditor?).
>
> Once enabled, for each article you can edit, you will get a second
> editor tab labelled ?VisualEditor? next to the ?Edit? tab. If you
> click this, after a little pause you will enter the VisualEditor. From
> here, you can play around, edit and save real articles and get an idea
> of what it will be like when complete.
>
> At this early stage in our development, we recommend that after saving
> any edits, you check whether they broke anything. All edits made with
> the VisualEditor will show up in articles? history tabs with a
> ?VisualEditor? tag next to them, so you can track what is happening.
>
>
> Things to note
>
> Slow to load - It will take some time for long complex pages to load
> into the VisualEditor, and particularly-big ones may timeout after 60
> seconds. This is because pages have to be loaded through Parsoid which
> is also in its early stages, and is not yet optimised for deployment
> and is currently uncached. In the future (a) Parsoid itself will be
> much faster, (b) Parsoid will not depend on as many slow API calls,
> and (c) it will be cached.
>
> Odd-looking - we currently struggle with making the HTML we produce
> look like you are used to seeing, so styling and so on may look a
> little (or even very) odd. This hasn't been our priority to date, as
> our focus has been on making sure we don't disrupt articles with the
> VisualEditor by altering the wikitext (correct "round-tripping").
>
> No editing references or templates - Blocks of content that we cannot
> yet handle are uneditable; this is mostly references and templates
> like infoboxes. Instead, when you mouse over them, they will be
> hatched out and a tooltip will inform you that they have to be edited
> via wikitext for now. You can select these items and delete them
> entirely, however there is not yet a way to add ones in or edit them
> currently (this will be a core piece of work post-December).
>
> Incomplete editing - Some elements of "complex" formatting will
> display and let you edit their contents, but not let users edit their
> structure or add new entries - such as tables or definition lists.
> This area of work will also be one of our priorities post-December.
>
> No categories - Articles' "meta" items will not appear at all -
> categories, langlinks, magic words etc.; these are preserved (so
> editing won't disrupt them), but they not yet editable. Another area
> for work post-December - our current plan is that they will be edited
> through a "metadata flyout", with auto-suggestions and so on.
>
> Poor browser support - Right now, we have only got VisualEditor to
> work in the most modern versions of Firefox, Chrome and Safari. We
> will find a way to support (at least) Internet Explorer post-December,
> but it's going to be a significant piece of work and we have failed to
> get it ready for now.
>
> Articles and User pages only - The VisualEditor will only be enabled
> for the article and user namespaces (so you can make changes in a
> personal sandbox), and will not work with talk pages, templates,
> categories, etc.. In time, we will build out the kinds of specialised
> editing tools needed for non-articles, but our focus has been on
> articles.
>
>
> Final point
>
> This is not the final form of the VisualEditor in lots of different
> ways. We know of a number of bugs, and we expect you to find more. We
> do not recommend people trying to use the VisualEditor for their
> regular editing yet. We would love your feedback on what we have done
> so far ? whether it?s a problem you discovered, an aspect that you
> find confusing, what area you think we should work on next, or
> anything else, please do let us know.[1]
>
>
> [0] -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor
> [1] -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback
>
> Yours,
> --
> James D. Forrester
> Product Manager, VisualEditor
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>
> [hidden email]  | @jdforrester

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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Thomas Gries
In reply to this post by James Forrester-4
tl;dr:
VE does not work for me

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42988
Hanging after "Review and save" --> "Review your changes" hangs, no saving

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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Ori Livneh
In reply to this post by James Forrester-4

On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 at 7:30 PM, James Forrester wrote:  
> TL;DR: Today we are launching an alpha, opt-in version of the
> VisualEditor[0] to the English Wikipedia. This will let editors create
> and modify real articles visually, using a new system where the
> articles they edit will look the same as when you read them, and their
> changes show up as they type enter them — like writing a document in a
> word processor. Please let us know what you think[1].

This is very exciting. Congratulations, VE team!

--
Ori Livneh



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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Chris McMahon
In reply to this post by James Forrester-4
Would it be possible to enable VE on test2 in the same way?  I would like
to use it in a noisy way, and would rather not make noise on enwiki.

-Chris

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 8:30 PM, James Forrester
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> TL;DR: Today we are launching an alpha, opt-in version of the
> VisualEditor[0] to the English Wikipedia. This will let editors create
> and modify real articles visually, using a new system where the
> articles they edit will look the same as when you read them, and their
> changes show up as they type enter them — like writing a document in a
> word processor. Please let us know what you think[1].
>
>
> Why launch now?
>
> We want our community of existing editors to get an idea of what the
> VisualEditor will look like in the “real world” and start to give us
> feedback about how well it integrates with how they edit right now,
> and their thoughts on what aspects are the priorities in the coming
> months.
>
> The editor is at an early stage and is still missing significant
> functions, which we will address in the coming months. Because of
> this, we are mostly looking for feedback from experienced editors at
> this point, because the editor is insufficient to really give them a
> proper experience of editing. We don’t want to promise an easier
> editing experience to new editors before it is ready.
>
> As we develop improvements, they will be pushed every fortnight to the
> wikis, allowing you to give us feedback[1] as we go and tell us what
> next you want us to work on.
>
>
> How can I try it out?
>
> The VisualEditor is now available to all logged-in accounts on the
> English Wikipedia as a new preference, switched off by default. If you
> go to your “Preferences” screen and click into the “Editing” section,
> it will have as an option labelled “Enable VisualEditor”).
>
> Once enabled, for each article you can edit, you will get a second
> editor tab labelled “VisualEditor” next to the “Edit” tab. If you
> click this, after a little pause you will enter the VisualEditor. From
> here, you can play around, edit and save real articles and get an idea
> of what it will be like when complete.
>
> At this early stage in our development, we recommend that after saving
> any edits, you check whether they broke anything. All edits made with
> the VisualEditor will show up in articles’ history tabs with a
> “VisualEditor” tag next to them, so you can track what is happening.
>
>
> Things to note
>
> Slow to load - It will take some time for long complex pages to load
> into the VisualEditor, and particularly-big ones may timeout after 60
> seconds. This is because pages have to be loaded through Parsoid which
> is also in its early stages, and is not yet optimised for deployment
> and is currently uncached. In the future (a) Parsoid itself will be
> much faster, (b) Parsoid will not depend on as many slow API calls,
> and (c) it will be cached.
>
> Odd-looking - we currently struggle with making the HTML we produce
> look like you are used to seeing, so styling and so on may look a
> little (or even very) odd. This hasn't been our priority to date, as
> our focus has been on making sure we don't disrupt articles with the
> VisualEditor by altering the wikitext (correct "round-tripping").
>
> No editing references or templates - Blocks of content that we cannot
> yet handle are uneditable; this is mostly references and templates
> like infoboxes. Instead, when you mouse over them, they will be
> hatched out and a tooltip will inform you that they have to be edited
> via wikitext for now. You can select these items and delete them
> entirely, however there is not yet a way to add ones in or edit them
> currently (this will be a core piece of work post-December).
>
> Incomplete editing - Some elements of "complex" formatting will
> display and let you edit their contents, but not let users edit their
> structure or add new entries - such as tables or definition lists.
> This area of work will also be one of our priorities post-December.
>
> No categories - Articles' "meta" items will not appear at all -
> categories, langlinks, magic words etc.; these are preserved (so
> editing won't disrupt them), but they not yet editable. Another area
> for work post-December - our current plan is that they will be edited
> through a "metadata flyout", with auto-suggestions and so on.
>
> Poor browser support - Right now, we have only got VisualEditor to
> work in the most modern versions of Firefox, Chrome and Safari. We
> will find a way to support (at least) Internet Explorer post-December,
> but it's going to be a significant piece of work and we have failed to
> get it ready for now.
>
> Articles and User pages only - The VisualEditor will only be enabled
> for the article and user namespaces (so you can make changes in a
> personal sandbox), and will not work with talk pages, templates,
> categories, etc.. In time, we will build out the kinds of specialised
> editing tools needed for non-articles, but our focus has been on
> articles.
>
>
> Final point
>
> This is not the final form of the VisualEditor in lots of different
> ways. We know of a number of bugs, and we expect you to find more. We
> do not recommend people trying to use the VisualEditor for their
> regular editing yet. We would love your feedback on what we have done
> so far – whether it’s a problem you discovered, an aspect that you
> find confusing, what area you think we should work on next, or
> anything else, please do let us know.[1]
>
>
> [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor
> [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback
>
> Yours,
> --
> James D. Forrester
> Product Manager, VisualEditor
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>
> [hidden email] | @jdforrester
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Chad
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Chris McMahon <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Would it be possible to enable VE on test2 in the same way?  I would like
> to use it in a noisy way, and would rather not make noise on enwiki.
>

It's also enabled for the user namespace, so people can feel free
to play with it and not be afraid of messing up a real article.

-Chad

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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Chris McMahon
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Chris McMahon <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Would it be possible to enable VE on test2 in the same way?  I would like
> > to use it in a noisy way, and would rather not make noise on enwiki.
> >
>
> It's also enabled for the user namespace, so people can feel free
> to play with it and not be afraid of messing up a real article.
>
>
I was thinking of making some basic automated browser tests for it.  test2
is more handy than enwiki for that. Beta labs would be even better.
-Chris
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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Subramanya Sastry

> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Chris McMahon <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Would it be possible to enable VE on test2 in the same way?  I would like
>>> to use it in a noisy way, and would rather not make noise on enwiki.
>>>
>> It's also enabled for the user namespace, so people can feel free
>> to play with it and not be afraid of messing up a real article.
>>
>>
> I was thinking of making some basic automated browser tests for it.  test2
> is more handy than enwiki for that. Beta labs would be even better.
> -Chris

This will also be useful to the Parsoid team as well so we can test
changes to parsoid itself more thoroughly (outside the rt-testing and
parser tests that we already use).  This would require the VE instance
to use a different Parsoid instance which could be the existing one at
parsoid.wmflabs.org, for example.

Subbu.

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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Andre Klapper-2
In reply to this post by James Forrester-4
On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 19:30 -0800, James Forrester wrote:
> This is not the final form of the VisualEditor in lots of different
> ways. We know of a number of bugs, and we expect you to find more. We
> do not recommend people trying to use the VisualEditor for their
> regular editing yet. We would love your feedback on what we have done
> so far – whether it’s a problem you discovered, an aspect that you
> find confusing, what area you think we should work on next, or
> anything else, please do let us know.[1]
>
> [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback


Playing the bad cop who's reading random feedback pages daily:

As https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Feedback also exists I
wonder if the VisualEditor deployment on en.wp and its related feedback
is so different from upstream that it needs a separate feedback page
(instead of e.g. a soft redirect to the mw: one), or other reasons. Or
does the en.wp one somehow make it easier for testers to report issues?
When we deploy VE to other Wikipedias, will there also be separate VE
feedback pages (maybe due to the different languages)?

Note: I'm not criticizing it, I'm just trying to understand, and I'm
picking VE as the most recent example.

Thanks in advance for explaining,
andre
--
Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/


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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Bartosz Dziewoński
Would it be possible to enable VE in a similar manner on other WMF wikis?

I understand the concerns about developers being unable to respond to
feedback in other languages, but most large projects have at least a
few technical people who could serve as "relays", and I'd like to see
some of the interface improvements start trickling down to projects
other than the English Wikipedia.

-- Matma Rex ([[:w:pl:User:Matma Rex]])

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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Risker
In reply to this post by Andre Klapper-2
On 12 December 2012 11:57, Andre Klapper <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 19:30 -0800, James Forrester wrote:
> > This is not the final form of the VisualEditor in lots of different
> > ways. We know of a number of bugs, and we expect you to find more. We
> > do not recommend people trying to use the VisualEditor for their
> > regular editing yet. We would love your feedback on what we have done
> > so far – whether it’s a problem you discovered, an aspect that you
> > find confusing, what area you think we should work on next, or
> > anything else, please do let us know.[1]
> >
> > [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback
>
>
> Playing the bad cop who's reading random feedback pages daily:
>
> As https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Feedback also exists I
> wonder if the VisualEditor deployment on en.wp and its related feedback
> is so different from upstream that it needs a separate feedback page
> (instead of e.g. a soft redirect to the mw: one), or other reasons. Or
> does the en.wp one somehow make it easier for testers to report issues?
> When we deploy VE to other Wikipedias, will there also be separate VE
> feedback pages (maybe due to the different languages)?
>
> Note: I'm not criticizing it, I'm just trying to understand, and I'm
> picking VE as the most recent example.
>
> Thanks in advance for explaining,
> andre
> --
>

You're after a different audience for this alpha test - not the technically
confident user who wanders from wiki to wiki and instinctively understands
just about any software variation thrown at them, but those whose focus is
on editing. Mediawiki wiki uses Liquid threads, which pretty well everyone
considers an unacceptable talk page method, and it creates an unnecessary
communication barrier for those who just want to report their findings
rather than having to figure out a different site's software.  And a rather
significant number of enwp editors avoid other WMF wikis like the plague
for complex sociological reasons.  Bottom line, the objective is getting a
wide range of editors to test the software through its various functions,
identify issues, and report them. Making it as easy as possible for them to
do so will produce the best response.

Risker
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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Gabriel Wicke-3
In reply to this post by Bartosz Dziewoński
On 12/12/2012 09:31 AM, Bartosz Dziewoński wrote:
> Would it be possible to enable VE in a similar manner on other WMF wikis?

Currently Parsoid does not support localized namespaces, link trail
character classes and other features. Without support for these, pages
will not render and round-trip properly.

Implementing this is not rocket science, but is currently lower priority
than other more urgent tasks.

Gabriel

--
Gabriel Wicke
Senior Software Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

James Alexander-4
In reply to this post by Andre Klapper-2
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Andre Klapper <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 19:30 -0800, James Forrester wrote:
> > This is not the final form of the VisualEditor in lots of different
> > ways. We know of a number of bugs, and we expect you to find more. We
> > do not recommend people trying to use the VisualEditor for their
> > regular editing yet. We would love your feedback on what we have done
> > so far – whether it’s a problem you discovered, an aspect that you
> > find confusing, what area you think we should work on next, or
> > anything else, please do let us know.[1]
> >
> > [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback
>
>
> Playing the bad cop who's reading random feedback pages daily:
>
> As https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Feedback also exists I
> wonder if the VisualEditor deployment on en.wp and its related feedback
> is so different from upstream that it needs a separate feedback page
> (instead of e.g. a soft redirect to the mw: one), or other reasons. Or
> does the en.wp one somehow make it easier for testers to report issues?
> When we deploy VE to other Wikipedias, will there also be separate VE
> feedback pages (maybe due to the different languages)?
>
> Note: I'm not criticizing it, I'm just trying to understand, and I'm
> picking VE as the most recent example.
>
> Thanks in advance for explaining,
> andre
> --
> Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler
> http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
>
>
>
Risker said many of the reasons but the biggest reason is that a large
portion of testers would not move wiki. Opening up a local spot for
feedback drastically increases the amount of feedback you get which can be
really helpful. Personally I think we should do it on as many wikis as we
can for major projects like this but it's obviously difficult to do on many
because of both the language barriers and watching too many feedback
channels.

Yet another thing that once a product like Echo works cross wiki it could
be helpful for :) but that's a bit of a ways away.

James


James Alexander
Manager, Merchandise
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Roan Kattouw-2
In reply to this post by lee worden
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Lee Worden <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Very exciting - congratulations!
>
> I know these are early days for the VisualEditor, but is there a plan for
> extension developers to be able to hook in to provide editing for the things
> their extensions support?
Yes, absolutely! We've been working on cleaning up and rewriting
various internal APIs in VE such that they can reasonably be used to
write extensions. We've made progress, but we're not done yet, and
more recently it's received less attention because of yesterday's
release. We're gonna be picking that work back up in January, and once
it's done, we would be happy to work with willing guinea pigs to test
our APIs in the wild and work out the remaining kinks. As for when
that'll actually be scheduled to happen, I defer to James F.

Roan

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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Daniel Barrett-3
Lee Worden <[hidden email]> wrote:
> is there a plan
> for extension developers to be able to hook in to provide editing for
> the things their extensions support?

Roan Kattouw responded:
>Yes, absolutely! We've been working on cleaning up and rewriting various internal APIs in VE
>such that they can reasonably be used to write extensions.

Will the method for hooking into VE be the same as for WikiEditor?  Or will extension
developers need to support both editors in two different ways?

Thanks,
DanB


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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Roan Kattouw-2
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Daniel Barrett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Will the method for hooking into VE be the same as for WikiEditor?  Or will extension
> developers need to support both editors in two different ways?
>
It won't be the same as for WikiEditors, because the two are very
fundamentally different. WikiEditor gives you a toolbar that allows
you to insert and manipulate wikitext. VisualEditor gives you
something similar (a toolbar that allows you to insert and manipulate
rich content), but it also gives you inspectors with pop-up dialogs,
toolbar buttons that can change state depending on what's selected,
and much more. You can also add new *types* of content, change how
content is rendered, etc. The possibilities are endless compared to
WikiEditor.

Roan

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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Matthew Flaschen-2
In reply to this post by James Forrester-4
On 12/11/2012 07:30 PM, James Forrester wrote:
> TL;DR: Today we are launching an alpha, opt-in version of the
> VisualEditor[0] to the English Wikipedia. This will let editors create
> and modify real articles visually, using a new system where the
> articles they edit will look the same as when you read them, and their
> changes show up as they type enter them — like writing a document in a
> word processor. Please let us know what you think[1].

Congratulations!  I've enabled it, and I can see the existing form is
already useful for some workflows.

I look forward to providing feedback, and towards the gaps getting
filled in.

Matt Flaschen

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Re: Alpha version of the VisualEditor now available on the English Wikipedia

Matthew Flaschen-2
In reply to this post by Roan Kattouw-2
On 12/12/2012 11:08 AM, Roan Kattouw wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Lee Worden <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Very exciting - congratulations!
>>
>> I know these are early days for the VisualEditor, but is there a plan for
>> extension developers to be able to hook in to provide editing for the things
>> their extensions support?
> Yes, absolutely! We've been working on cleaning up and rewriting
> various internal APIs in VE such that they can reasonably be used to
> write extensions. We've made progress, but we're not done yet, and
> more recently it's received less attention because of yesterday's
> release. We're gonna be picking that work back up in January, and once
> it's done, we would be happy to work with willing guinea pigs to test
> our APIs in the wild and work out the remaining kinks. As for when
> that'll actually be scheduled to happen, I defer to James F.

I would definitely be willing to serve as a guinea pig, working to
integrate ProveIt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ProveIt_GT).

Matt Flaschen

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