Alternatives to Cafepress

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Alternatives to Cafepress

Sean Whitton (Xyrael)
Hey all,

Right now we have the Cafepress shop for T-shirts and the like, but in
general the quality of the products that Cafepress produce is pretty
low. I am told that whilst gentoo has a shop there, the conference
organisers actually use a seperate company to produce much the same
thing for the conferences due to the lack of quality described. While
I haven't bought any T-shirts from them thus far, other things I have
bought have been of similar poor quality.

So, do we presently have any alternative ways to get T-shirts? I want one!

Thanks,

Sean

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

David Gerard-2
On 26/08/07, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So, do we presently have any alternative ways to get T-shirts? I want one!


Any high street printer these days will do mugs, T-shirts, etc. just
like CafePress, without their  postage costs. So print one yourself
and send 20% of the cost to the Foundation ;-)


- d.

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Sean Whitton (Xyrael)
On 26/08/07, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 26/08/07, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > So, do we presently have any alternative ways to get T-shirts? I want one!
>
>
> Any high street printer these days will do mugs, T-shirts, etc. just
> like CafePress, without their  postage costs. So print one yourself
> and send 20% of the cost to the Foundation ;-)

Excuse my stupidity, but is this considered fair use of the logos?

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

David Gerard-2
On 26/08/07, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 26/08/07, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 26/08/07, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > > So, do we presently have any alternative ways to get T-shirts? I want one!

> > Any high street printer these days will do mugs, T-shirts, etc. just
> > like CafePress, without their  postage costs. So print one yourself
> > and send 20% of the cost to the Foundation ;-)

> Excuse my stupidity, but is this considered fair use of the logos?


I think in practice no-one is going to sue.

Put it this way: I need to make up a couple such shirts for
short-notice media appearances ...


- d.

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

geni
In reply to this post by Sean Whitton (Xyrael)
On 8/26/07, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 26/08/07, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 26/08/07, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > So, do we presently have any alternative ways to get T-shirts? I want one!
> >
> >
> > Any high street printer these days will do mugs, T-shirts, etc. just
> > like CafePress, without their  postage costs. So print one yourself
> > and send 20% of the cost to the Foundation ;-)
>
> Excuse my stupidity, but is this considered fair use of the logos?


Nope.

The cafepress issue has been ah ongoing.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_ideas#Stop_useing_cafepress

And I think before that.

A couple of months back it looked like there might be some movement
but since then zilch.

--
geni

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Erik Moeller-4
In reply to this post by Sean Whitton (Xyrael)
On 8/26/07, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Right now we have the Cafepress shop for T-shirts and the like, but in
> general the quality of the products that Cafepress produce is pretty
> low. I am told that whilst gentoo has a shop there, the conference
> organisers actually use a seperate company to produce much the same
> thing for the conferences due to the lack of quality described. While
> I haven't bought any T-shirts from them thus far, other things I have
> bought have been of similar poor quality.

Last time I checked, Vishal was comparing multiple alternatives. This
likely doesn't have any priority right now as the revenue from
merchandising tends to be comparatively small.

I'm fairly happy with everything I've purchased through CP, but I'm
probably about 20 degrees removed from a person who could give an
informed opinion about such matters. That said, mere rumors and
personal anecdotes are not particularly compelling. I'd like to hear
some more substantive criticisms than "poor quality", preferably a
comparison of multiple vendors published in a reliable source. If it's
not sufficiently sourced by Wikipedia's standards of inclusion, it's
not enough to base a decision on. ;-)
--
Toward Peace, Love & Progress:
Erik

DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of
the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Florence Devouard-3
Erik Moeller wrote:

> On 8/26/07, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Right now we have the Cafepress shop for T-shirts and the like, but in
>> general the quality of the products that Cafepress produce is pretty
>> low. I am told that whilst gentoo has a shop there, the conference
>> organisers actually use a seperate company to produce much the same
>> thing for the conferences due to the lack of quality described. While
>> I haven't bought any T-shirts from them thus far, other things I have
>> bought have been of similar poor quality.
>
> Last time I checked, Vishal was comparing multiple alternatives. This
> likely doesn't have any priority right now as the revenue from
> merchandising tends to be comparatively small.

There is also the proposition from the branding company. If we sign a
deal with them, it would be within their role to find a more suitable
(if more suitable there is) company for tee-shirt printing I guess.

I agree it is not a priority from a "revenue" point of view; This said,
from a consumer point of view, the quality is a little bit more
important than "revenue" :-)
If tee-shirts do not bring significant revenue, then the quality is a
priority over revenue... Exploring options to change tee-shirt providers
and taking primarily into account revenue as a variable is, imho, a
mistake. Tee-shirts are not done to bring money, but mostly because it
is fun and team building.

LINK ! http://www.aboutus.org/WikiWear.org

ant

> I'm fairly happy with everything I've purchased through CP, but I'm
> probably about 20 degrees removed from a person who could give an
> informed opinion about such matters. That said, mere rumors and
> personal anecdotes are not particularly compelling. I'd like to hear
> some more substantive criticisms than "poor quality", preferably a
> comparison of multiple vendors published in a reliable source. If it's
> not sufficiently sourced by Wikipedia's standards of inclusion, it's
> not enough to base a decision on. ;-)


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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Sue Gardner-2
Yes, exactly re fun and teambuilding.  And to that point, one of the benefits of CafePress is actually its findability and ease of use - people expect to find WMF material there, and they do.  (I say this as a person who went and found and  bought our stuff there, long before I ever saw the CP link on our site - I'm probably not alone in that.)

And although I too have heard the complaints about quality, my shirts are holding up fine :-)

Regardless, yes, Vishal has been looking at this, and yes, it has not been a particularly high priority.  Really it's the branding company who will handle it, if we sign with one. They will have the industry knowledge and the relationships to make a recommendation for what's best.

Thanks,
Sue

-----Original Message-----
From: Florence Devouard <[hidden email]>

Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:40:16
To:[hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Alternatives to Cafepress


Erik Moeller wrote:

> On 8/26/07, Sean Whitton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Right now we have the Cafepress shop for T-shirts and the like, but in
>> general the quality of the products that Cafepress produce is pretty
>> low. I am told that whilst gentoo has a shop there, the conference
>> organisers actually use a seperate company to produce much the same
>> thing for the conferences due to the lack of quality described. While
>> I haven't bought any T-shirts from them thus far, other things I have
>> bought have been of similar poor quality.
>
> Last time I checked, Vishal was comparing multiple alternatives. This
> likely doesn't have any priority right now as the revenue from
> merchandising tends to be comparatively small.

There is also the proposition from the branding company. If we sign a
deal with them, it would be within their role to find a more suitable
(if more suitable there is) company for tee-shirt printing I guess.

I agree it is not a priority from a "revenue" point of view; This said,
from a consumer point of view, the quality is a little bit more
important than "revenue" :-)
If tee-shirts do not bring significant revenue, then the quality is a
priority over revenue... Exploring options to change tee-shirt providers
and taking primarily into account revenue as a variable is, imho, a
mistake. Tee-shirts are not done to bring money, but mostly because it
is fun and team building.

LINK ! http://www.aboutus.org/WikiWear.org

ant

> I'm fairly happy with everything I've purchased through CP, but I'm
> probably about 20 degrees removed from a person who could give an
> informed opinion about such matters. That said, mere rumors and
> personal anecdotes are not particularly compelling. I'd like to hear
> some more substantive criticisms than "poor quality", preferably a
> comparison of multiple vendors published in a reliable source. If it's
> not sufficiently sourced by Wikipedia's standards of inclusion, it's
> not enough to base a decision on. ;-)


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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Lars Aronsson
Sue Gardner wrote:

> Regardless, yes, Vishal has been looking at this, and yes, it
> has not been a particularly high priority.  Really it's the
> branding company who will handle it, if we sign with one. They
> will have the industry knowledge and the relationships to make a
> recommendation for what's best.

Do you really need "industry knowledge" to sell mugs and t-shirts?  
I thought knowledge about the community that is going to *buy*
these items is more important.  Where and how do people normally
buy their favorite t-shirts for projects such as Wikipedia?  I'd
say Cafepress is the mainstream alternative, at least for the U.S.

The much neglected German/European store might provide better
prices and delivery times for buyers in much of Europe,
http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=10292


A month ago I made a T-shirt printable large logotype for the
Swedish Wikipedia [[Image:Wikipedia-logo-sv-large.png]].  When I
asked if I could print this and wear, I was told to print nothing
before there is a Swedish chapter established.  Apparently I'm
free to buy English text T-shirts from Cafepress (or German ones
from Spreadshirt) and wear or abuse these shirts as I like, just
not print my own.  The logic behind this escapes me.  I've also
tried to make people add the Swedish shirt design to the existing
shops at Cafepress or Spreadshirt, to no avail.


--
  Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Austin Hair
On 8/26/07, Lars Aronsson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Do you really need "industry knowledge" to sell mugs and t-shirts?
> I thought knowledge about the community that is going to *buy*
> these items is more important.  Where and how do people normally
> buy their favorite t-shirts for projects such as Wikipedia?  I'd
> say Cafepress is the mainstream alternative, at least for the U.S.

Printing the Wikipedia logo on t-shirts is one thing, but developing a
full product line of Wikimedia-branded merchandise is something that
deserves some careful thought and professional attention.

> A month ago I made a T-shirt printable large logotype for the
> Swedish Wikipedia [[Image:Wikipedia-logo-sv-large.png]].  When I
> asked if I could print this and wear, I was told to print nothing
> before there is a Swedish chapter established.

I don't know who told you this, but either they were misinformed or
you misunderstood.  While a Swedish chapter with which we have a
trademark agreement would be able to arrange such a thing, just as the
German or Polish chapters could, there's certainly no plan I'm aware
of to delay merchandising of language-specific products until we have
chapters whose members speak those languages.  I expect that any
future merchandising plans will include designs that reflect the
linguistic diversity of the various Wikimedia projects.

In the meantime, I'll note that the Foundation has never sued anyone
for printing logo Ts for themselves and a few friends, so long as you
don't make them generally available to others.  Selling stuff printed
with Wikimedia's trademarks is a can of worms that everybody's
particularly cautious about, and quite reasonably so.

Austin

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Brian J Mingus
I've been wearing my Wikipedia golf shirt, purchased I believe at Cafe
Press, for three years. It is as white as ever and has not suffered in
quality.

On 8/26/07, Austin Hair <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 8/26/07, Lars Aronsson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Do you really need "industry knowledge" to sell mugs and t-shirts?
> > I thought knowledge about the community that is going to *buy*
> > these items is more important.  Where and how do people normally
> > buy their favorite t-shirts for projects such as Wikipedia?  I'd
> > say Cafepress is the mainstream alternative, at least for the U.S.
>
> Printing the Wikipedia logo on t-shirts is one thing, but developing a
> full product line of Wikimedia-branded merchandise is something that
> deserves some careful thought and professional attention.
>
> > A month ago I made a T-shirt printable large logotype for the
> > Swedish Wikipedia [[Image:Wikipedia-logo-sv-large.png]].  When I
> > asked if I could print this and wear, I was told to print nothing
> > before there is a Swedish chapter established.
>
> I don't know who told you this, but either they were misinformed or
> you misunderstood.  While a Swedish chapter with which we have a
> trademark agreement would be able to arrange such a thing, just as the
> German or Polish chapters could, there's certainly no plan I'm aware
> of to delay merchandising of language-specific products until we have
> chapters whose members speak those languages.  I expect that any
> future merchandising plans will include designs that reflect the
> linguistic diversity of the various Wikimedia projects.
>
> In the meantime, I'll note that the Foundation has never sued anyone
> for printing logo Ts for themselves and a few friends, so long as you
> don't make them generally available to others.  Selling stuff printed
> with Wikimedia's trademarks is a can of worms that everybody's
> particularly cautious about, and quite reasonably so.
>
> Austin
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

David Gerard-2
On 26/08/07, Brian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've been wearing my Wikipedia golf shirt, purchased I believe at Cafe
> Press, for three years. It is as white as ever and has not suffered in
> quality.


The main problem with the CafePress process (and that used by most
one-off printers) is that it's basically laser-printing to a shirt,
i.e. toner particles melted into the fibres. This can work very well
indeed, but is not going to be as good as silk-screen printing, which
becomes cost-effective at a few tens of shirts or so.

Of course, the other thing you're buying from CafePress is having
someone do all the ordering, packing and posting backend - not just
making sure you don't have a stock of maybe-saleable shirts.


- d.

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Sean Whitton (Xyrael)
On 26/08/07, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 26/08/07, Brian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I've been wearing my Wikipedia golf shirt, purchased I believe at Cafe
> > Press, for three years. It is as white as ever and has not suffered in
> > quality.
>
>
> The main problem with the CafePress process (and that used by most
> one-off printers) is that it's basically laser-printing to a shirt,
> i.e. toner particles melted into the fibres. This can work very well
> indeed, but is not going to be as good as silk-screen printing, which
> becomes cost-effective at a few tens of shirts or so.

I haven't actually got a T-shirt myself as I said so I am encouraged
by what you say about them being of reasonable quality. The things I
have bought are a calendar and a mug which we okay, but nothing
special. After what you have said I may consider buying one, but I do
know of a shop in town.

Perhaps there is a difference between the different types of T-shirt
they produce?

On 26/08/07, Florence Devouard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I agree it is not a priority from a "revenue" point of view; This said,
> from a consumer point of view, the quality is a little bit more
> important than "revenue" :-)

I agree with this, for the team-building you mentioned. Also, if
people are wearing T-shirts who are involved, other people in Real
Life are going to ask about it, and then awareness of us is going to
profit. Unless we open a clothing chain I don't think are ever going
to earn a lot in terms of cash from something like this, so our
priority should be as you say to get the other, more social benefits.

Btw I am highly amused by the slogan of "capitalism done right" on GoodStorm.

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

George William Herbert
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
On 8/26/07, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 26/08/07, Brian <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I've been wearing my Wikipedia golf shirt, purchased I believe at Cafe
> > Press, for three years. It is as white as ever and has not suffered in
> > quality.
>
> The main problem with the CafePress process (and that used by most
> one-off printers) is that it's basically laser-printing to a shirt,
> i.e. toner particles melted into the fibres. This can work very well
> indeed, but is not going to be as good as silk-screen printing, which
> becomes cost-effective at a few tens of shirts or so.

For most of the fabrics, it's actually inkjet to a transfer "paper",
which is then ironed on to the clothing item.  Attempting to
direct-print to fabric is problematic at this time.

My wife has had stuff on CafePress for many years and has been active
talking with them about technology on and off.  She also does her own
stuff, for items where CafePress doesn't produce that type of item,
using a decent home inkjet printer and commercial iron-on transfer
material.

> Of course, the other thing you're buying from CafePress is having
> someone do all the ordering, packing and posting backend - not just
> making sure you don't have a stock of maybe-saleable shirts.

Right.  This is the big reason to use Cafe Press or its ilk; they
don't just produce the items, they have the "Store", and you don't
have to be in the "Store" business.  Just send them the design, and
collect whatever royalties the sales earn.

There are plenty of screen print T-shirt companies, some of which can
do all sorts of other stuff, and plenty of other companies that can do
logos/artwork to mugs and so forth.  But very few of them will do the
online store thing.


--
-george william herbert
[hidden email]

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Sage Ross
Perhaps we could arrange a Wikimedia "Loves Threadless" competition to
generate some more T-shirt designs worth buying.  There seems to be an
extremely active community of artists who participate in these design
competitions, especially for organizations that have large fan-bases.
For example, the recent "Gmail Loves Threadless" competition generated
over 400 designs, many of them quite good:

http://www.threadless.com/submissions/designs,gmail/showme,intherunning,completed,printed

I'm not sure how the sponsors for these competitions are selected and
whether/how much the sponsors are paying for the privilege, but it
might be worth looking into.

-Sage (User:Ragesoss)


On 8/27/07, George Herbert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8/26/07, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 26/08/07, Brian <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > I've been wearing my Wikipedia golf shirt, purchased I believe at Cafe
> > > Press, for three years. It is as white as ever and has not suffered in
> > > quality.
> >
> > The main problem with the CafePress process (and that used by most
> > one-off printers) is that it's basically laser-printing to a shirt,
> > i.e. toner particles melted into the fibres. This can work very well
> > indeed, but is not going to be as good as silk-screen printing, which
> > becomes cost-effective at a few tens of shirts or so.
>
> For most of the fabrics, it's actually inkjet to a transfer "paper",
> which is then ironed on to the clothing item.  Attempting to
> direct-print to fabric is problematic at this time.
>
> My wife has had stuff on CafePress for many years and has been active
> talking with them about technology on and off.  She also does her own
> stuff, for items where CafePress doesn't produce that type of item,
> using a decent home inkjet printer and commercial iron-on transfer
> material.
>
> > Of course, the other thing you're buying from CafePress is having
> > someone do all the ordering, packing and posting backend - not just
> > making sure you don't have a stock of maybe-saleable shirts.
>
> Right.  This is the big reason to use Cafe Press or its ilk; they
> don't just produce the items, they have the "Store", and you don't
> have to be in the "Store" business.  Just send them the design, and
> collect whatever royalties the sales earn.
>
> There are plenty of screen print T-shirt companies, some of which can
> do all sorts of other stuff, and plenty of other companies that can do
> logos/artwork to mugs and so forth.  But very few of them will do the
> online store thing.
>
>
> --
> -george william herbert
> [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Casey Brown-3
This sounds like a pretty cool idea. :-)

On 8/28/07, Sage Ross <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Perhaps we could arrange a Wikimedia "Loves Threadless" competition to
> generate some more T-shirt designs worth buying.  There seems to be an
> extremely active community of artists who participate in these design
> competitions, especially for organizations that have large fan-bases.
> For example, the recent "Gmail Loves Threadless" competition generated
> over 400 designs, many of them quite good:
>
>
> http://www.threadless.com/submissions/designs,gmail/showme,intherunning,completed,printed
>
> I'm not sure how the sponsors for these competitions are selected and
> whether/how much the sponsors are paying for the privilege, but it
> might be worth looking into.
>
> -Sage (User:Ragesoss)
>
>
> On 8/27/07, George Herbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 8/26/07, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On 26/08/07, Brian <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > I've been wearing my Wikipedia golf shirt, purchased I believe at
> Cafe
> > > > Press, for three years. It is as white as ever and has not suffered
> in
> > > > quality.
> > >
> > > The main problem with the CafePress process (and that used by most
> > > one-off printers) is that it's basically laser-printing to a shirt,
> > > i.e. toner particles melted into the fibres. This can work very well
> > > indeed, but is not going to be as good as silk-screen printing, which
> > > becomes cost-effective at a few tens of shirts or so.
> >
> > For most of the fabrics, it's actually inkjet to a transfer "paper",
> > which is then ironed on to the clothing item.  Attempting to
> > direct-print to fabric is problematic at this time.
> >
> > My wife has had stuff on CafePress for many years and has been active
> > talking with them about technology on and off.  She also does her own
> > stuff, for items where CafePress doesn't produce that type of item,
> > using a decent home inkjet printer and commercial iron-on transfer
> > material.
> >
> > > Of course, the other thing you're buying from CafePress is having
> > > someone do all the ordering, packing and posting backend - not just
> > > making sure you don't have a stock of maybe-saleable shirts.
> >
> > Right.  This is the big reason to use Cafe Press or its ilk; they
> > don't just produce the items, they have the "Store", and you don't
> > have to be in the "Store" business.  Just send them the design, and
> > collect whatever royalties the sales earn.
> >
> > There are plenty of screen print T-shirt companies, some of which can
> > do all sorts of other stuff, and plenty of other companies that can do
> > logos/artwork to mugs and so forth.  But very few of them will do the
> > online store thing.
> >
> >
> > --
> > -george william herbert
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
to
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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Jim Redmond
In reply to this post by Sage Ross
On Aug 28, 2007, at 1:05 AM, Sage Ross wrote:

> Perhaps we could arrange a Wikimedia "Loves Threadless" competition to
> generate some more T-shirt designs worth buying.

/me arrives late to the party

This is a WONDERFUL idea, IMHO.  Not only does Threadless have a  
dedicated and talented community of artists, but they'd also handle  
the "storefront" part.

The American Red Cross did a "loves Threadless" competition in April  
2006 in honor of their 125th anniversary.  Three winning designs were  
selected from hundreds of entries, and for each shirt sold with a  
winning design, Threadless donated $5.  (I am not certain how much  
Threadless eventually donated.)
<http://www.threadless.com/loves/redcross>

As far as I'm concerned, this avenue is worth exploring.

Jim Redmond
[[m:User:Jredmond]]



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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Mark
James Redmond wrote:

> On Aug 28, 2007, at 1:05 AM, Sage Ross wrote:
>
>  
>> Perhaps we could arrange a Wikimedia "Loves Threadless" competition to
>> generate some more T-shirt designs worth buying.
>>    
>
> /me arrives late to the party
>
> This is a WONDERFUL idea, IMHO.  Not only does Threadless have a  
> dedicated and talented community of artists, but they'd also handle  
> the "storefront" part.
>
> The American Red Cross did a "loves Threadless" competition in April  
> 2006 in honor of their 125th anniversary.  Three winning designs were  
> selected from hundreds of entries, and for each shirt sold with a  
> winning design, Threadless donated $5.  (I am not certain how much  
> Threadless eventually donated.)
> <http://www.threadless.com/loves/redcross>
>
> As far as I'm concerned, this avenue is worth exploring.
>  

I'm a bit wary of the "Wikimedia Loves Threadless" phrasing, which
sounds a bit too much like we're endorsing a tshirt company, rather than
just having them print shirts for us.  Is there a way to do this without
that wording?  If we *were* willing to do something that vaguely implied
endorsement, surely there are companies willing to pay more for the
privilege? At $5/shirt, and even a very generous estimate of 10,000
shirts sold, that'd be $50,000, which isn't all that much when compared
to other avenues for Wikimedia's income (the January fundraiser netted
about $1,000,000).

-Mark


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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

Peter Halasz
The "Wikipedia is Completely Neutral Towards Threadless competition"
doesn't quite have the same ring to it, but sure, it could work.

As for the comparison with the fundraising... Unlike the fundraiser, a
threadless competition/t-shirt wouldn't need to (and shouldn't) be
advertised as a banner to every user. Also, it would help increase
"brand loyalty" and "brand awareness" which the fundraiser doesn't do
(at least not in the same way), so the tshirt thing has its own
advantages. And the two are hardly exclusive. Increasing Wikimedia's
revenue by 5% (Delirium's generous estimate) couldn't be a bad thing.

Personally I'd just like to have a Wikipedia tshirt that I'd be
comfortable wearing around non-geeks.

Peter.

On 8/31/07, Delirium <[hidden email]> wrote:

> James Redmond wrote:
> > On Aug 28, 2007, at 1:05 AM, Sage Ross wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Perhaps we could arrange a Wikimedia "Loves Threadless" competition to
> >> generate some more T-shirt designs worth buying.
> >>
> >
> > /me arrives late to the party
> >
> > This is a WONDERFUL idea, IMHO.  Not only does Threadless have a
> > dedicated and talented community of artists, but they'd also handle
> > the "storefront" part.
> >
> > The American Red Cross did a "loves Threadless" competition in April
> > 2006 in honor of their 125th anniversary.  Three winning designs were
> > selected from hundreds of entries, and for each shirt sold with a
> > winning design, Threadless donated $5.  (I am not certain how much
> > Threadless eventually donated.)
> > <http://www.threadless.com/loves/redcross>
> >
> > As far as I'm concerned, this avenue is worth exploring.
> >
>
> I'm a bit wary of the "Wikimedia Loves Threadless" phrasing, which
> sounds a bit too much like we're endorsing a tshirt company, rather than
> just having them print shirts for us.  Is there a way to do this without
> that wording?  If we *were* willing to do something that vaguely implied
> endorsement, surely there are companies willing to pay more for the
> privilege? At $5/shirt, and even a very generous estimate of 10,000
> shirts sold, that'd be $50,000, which isn't all that much when compared
> to other avenues for Wikimedia's income (the January fundraiser netted
> about $1,000,000).
>
> -Mark
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Alternatives to Cafepress

David Gerard-2
On 31/08/2007, Peter Halasz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The "Wikipedia is Completely Neutral Towards Threadless competition"
> doesn't quite have the same ring to it, but sure, it could work.


"Wikipedia maintains its Neutral Point Of View towards Threadless
Despite Thinking They're Very Nice People And Working Well Together
Competition <ref>"

Dunno if they'd be open to variations on the catchphrase :-)


> Personally I'd just like to have a Wikipedia tshirt that I'd be
> comfortable wearing around non-geeks.


Even a plain puzzle globe T-shirt marks you as some sort of nerd who
thinks reading and writing encyclopedias is *fun*.


- d.

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