An actual bikeshed

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An actual bikeshed

Chad
Hi,

There's been a lot of bikeshedding topics recently. On things ranging
from spaces, to typos, to naming things. I was kind of tired of these
mundane threads, so I decided to start one on something productive.

What color should the bikeshed be?

I vote blue.

-Chad

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Re: An actual bikeshed

Tyler Romeo
Wadler's law will always hold. :P

*--*
*Tyler Romeo*
Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015
Major in Computer Science
www.whizkidztech.com | [hidden email]


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> There's been a lot of bikeshedding topics recently. On things ranging
> from spaces, to typos, to naming things. I was kind of tired of these
> mundane threads, so I decided to start one on something productive.
>
> What color should the bikeshed be?
>
> I vote blue.
>
> -Chad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: An actual bikeshed

Yuvi Panda
In reply to this post by Chad
(ex)Gerrit Green.
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Re: An actual bikeshed

Brion Vibber
In reply to this post by Chad
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> There's been a lot of bikeshedding topics recently. On things ranging
> from spaces, to typos, to naming things. I was kind of tired of these
> mundane threads, so I decided to start one on something productive.
>
> What color should the bikeshed be?
>
> I vote blue.
>

Trick question: there is no bikeshed. It is only your mind that bends.

-- brion
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Re: An actual bikeshed

Sumana Harihareswara-2
In reply to this post by Chad
On 01/23/2013 01:11 PM, Chad wrote:

> Hi,
>
> There's been a lot of bikeshedding topics recently. On things ranging
> from spaces, to typos, to naming things. I was kind of tired of these
> mundane threads, so I decided to start one on something productive.
>
> What color should the bikeshed be?
>
> I vote blue.
>
> -Chad


Bohemian-bourgeois answer: "The organic free-range sustainable
sweatshop-free paint only comes in mauve."

Too Much Monty Python answer: "Blue! No, green! Auggghh!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWS8Mg-JWSg

Community manager's dream answer: Here's a bunch of paint and some
brushes, go have fun!  [time passes]  Oh what a lovely mural!
-Sumana

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Re: An actual bikeshed

Jeroen De Dauw-2
In reply to this post by Chad
Hey,

> What color should the bikeshed be?

I'll forgive you for your ignorance - one really needs to start with
picking the kind of paint first

Cheers

--
Jeroen De Dauw
http://www.bn2vs.com
Don't panic. Don't be evil.
--
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Re: An actual bikeshed

Matthew Walker
Are we just appropriating a random bikeshed somewhere in SF for this
project?

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Jeroen De Dauw <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hey,
>
> > What color should the bikeshed be?
>
> I'll forgive you for your ignorance - one really needs to start with
> picking the kind of paint first
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Jeroen De Dauw
> http://www.bn2vs.com
> Don't panic. Don't be evil.
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



--
~Matt Walker
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Re: An actual bikeshed

Yuvi Panda
It's actually a bus, not a bikeshed. It is already painted. And vim is
obviously the better editor.
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Re: An actual bikeshed

Magnus Manske-2
Blue, and bigger on the inside.


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 6:57 PM, Yuvi Panda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's actually a bus, not a bikeshed. It is already painted. And vim is
> obviously the better editor.
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Re: An actual bikeshed

Jon Robson
I mean does it have to be a bike shed or can I put my boat in it?

On a more serious note, I think all this bikeshedding reveals a big
problem we have.
It is very hard to reach consensus on many topics and it seems one
person saying no has more weight than 10 people say yes.

Bikeshedding prevents:
* more interesting discussions about how we can improve the security
of the bikeshed
* can be deflating - giving the sense that the bike shed will never
actually be painted, will never actually exist and I will never buy a
bike and never go on wonderful bike rides.
* can put people off who see that other community projects already
have a painted bikeshed that is more interesting and worthy of
attention
* can cause broken windows - since everyone is discussing the bikeshed
no one is paying attention to all the bricks some kids are throwing
through the windows at night and the whole of the community centre is
falling apart. Also this becomes infectious and other kids start
adding graffiti to walls (well there are already broken windows....)

Suggested solution:
Maybe some kind of voting system might be of use to force some kind of
consensus rather than leaving problems unsolved. I'm fed up of
receiving emails about the same problem I discussed weeks before that
never got solved. It makes my mailbox ill.

I mean if the question is really what colour is the bikeshed it would
be good for people to propose colours, people to vote on preferred
colours and at the end of say a week the majority colour wins and gets
implemented (or in cases where there is no majority we discuss the
front runners and other possible solutions).

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Magnus Manske
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Blue, and bigger on the inside.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 6:57 PM, Yuvi Panda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> It's actually a bus, not a bikeshed. It is already painted. And vim is
>> obviously the better editor.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
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--
Jon Robson
http://jonrobson.me.uk
@rakugojon

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Re: An actual bikeshed

Brian Wolff
On 2013-01-23 3:38 PM, "Jon Robson" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Suggested solution:
> Maybe some kind of voting system might be of use to force some kind of
> consensus rather than leaving problems unsolved. I'm fed up of
> receiving emails about the same problem I discussed weeks before that
> never got solved. It makes my mailbox ill.
>
> I mean if the question is really what colour is the bikeshed it would
> be good for people to propose colours, people to vote on preferred
> colours and at the end of say a week the majority colour wins and gets
> implemented (or in cases where there is no majority we discuss the
> front runners and other possible solutions).
>

What colour should the polling booth be?

I don't think the answer is voting. Perhaps there are some sheds that don't
need to be painted.

-bawolff

P.s. if someone built a bikeshed in the wmf office they would be my hero
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Re: An actual bikeshed

lee worden
On 01/23/2013 12:56 PM, Bawolff Bawolff wrote:

> On 2013-01-23 3:38 PM, "Jon Robson" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Suggested solution:
>> Maybe some kind of voting system might be of use to force some kind of
>> consensus rather than leaving problems unsolved. I'm fed up of
>> receiving emails about the same problem I discussed weeks before that
>> never got solved. It makes my mailbox ill.
>>
>> I mean if the question is really what colour is the bikeshed it would
>> be good for people to propose colours, people to vote on preferred
>> colours and at the end of say a week the majority colour wins and gets
>> implemented (or in cases where there is no majority we discuss the
>> front runners and other possible solutions).
>>
>
> What colour should the polling booth be?
>
> I don't think the answer is voting. Perhaps there are some sheds that don't
> need to be painted.
>
> -bawolff
>
> P.s. if someone built a bikeshed in the wmf office they would be my hero

I have put out a call for one:
http://groups.freecycle.org/oaklandfreecycle/posts/27285249

If I get one, I will donate it to the wmf office.
LW

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Re: An actual bikeshed

Nikola Smolenski-2
In reply to this post by Jon Robson
On 23/01/13 20:38, Jon Robson wrote:

> Suggested solution:
> Maybe some kind of voting system might be of use to force some kind of
> consensus rather than leaving problems unsolved. I'm fed up of
> receiving emails about the same problem I discussed weeks before that
> never got solved. It makes my mailbox ill.
>
> I mean if the question is really what colour is the bikeshed it would
> be good for people to propose colours, people to vote on preferred
> colours and at the end of say a week the majority colour wins and gets
> implemented (or in cases where there is no majority we discuss the
> front runners and other possible solutions).

Excuse me, but your proposed solution is wholly inadequate. For example,
a few people might prefer a green bikeshed, more people might prefer
blue, yet a small majority might prefer awful grey. The greens would of
course prefer blue to grey, yet this would not be reflected in the
voting outcome.

Obviously, if this is ever to be implemented, we need a better way of
counting the votes, such as instant-runoff voting.

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Re: An actual bikeshed

Tyler Romeo
>
> Excuse me, but your proposed solution is wholly inadequate. For example, a
> few people might prefer a green bikeshed, more people might prefer blue,
> yet a small majority might prefer awful grey. The greens would of course
> prefer blue to grey, yet this would not be reflected in the voting outcome.
>
> Obviously, if this is ever to be implemented, we need a better way of
> counting the votes, such as instant-runoff voting.


This doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure what you mean by "small
majority", but I'm going to assume that it's a majority nonetheless. If a
majority  prefers gray, even if everybody who voted green and blue banded
together and voted for one color, they'd still have less votes than those
who voted from gray. Hence the reason for using a majority vote.

On that note, I'd be perfectly fine doing a quick majority vote on small
bikeshed items just so we can get them over with and so people can stop
-1'ing my patchsets because of them. This especially applies in cases where
there are only two choices, e.g., if( v. if (.

*--*
*Tyler Romeo*
Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015
Major in Computer Science
www.whizkidztech.com | [hidden email]


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:30 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 23/01/13 20:38, Jon Robson wrote:
>
>> Suggested solution:
>> Maybe some kind of voting system might be of use to force some kind of
>> consensus rather than leaving problems unsolved. I'm fed up of
>> receiving emails about the same problem I discussed weeks before that
>> never got solved. It makes my mailbox ill.
>>
>> I mean if the question is really what colour is the bikeshed it would
>> be good for people to propose colours, people to vote on preferred
>> colours and at the end of say a week the majority colour wins and gets
>> implemented (or in cases where there is no majority we discuss the
>> front runners and other possible solutions).
>>
>
> Excuse me, but your proposed solution is wholly inadequate. For example, a
> few people might prefer a green bikeshed, more people might prefer blue,
> yet a small majority might prefer awful grey. The greens would of course
> prefer blue to grey, yet this would not be reflected in the voting outcome.
>
> Obviously, if this is ever to be implemented, we need a better way of
> counting the votes, such as instant-runoff voting.
>
>
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Re: An actual bikeshed

Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Tyler Romeo <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>
>> Excuse me, but your proposed solution is wholly inadequate. For example, a
>> few people might prefer a green bikeshed, more people might prefer blue,
>> yet a small majority might prefer awful grey. The greens would of course
>> prefer blue to grey, yet this would not be reflected in the voting outcome.
>>
>> Obviously, if this is ever to be implemented, we need a better way of
>> counting the votes, such as instant-runoff voting.
>
>
> This doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure what you mean by "small
> majority", but I'm going to assume that it's a majority nonetheless.

I expect Nikola meant a relative majority (sometimes called a
plurality) rather than an absolute, overall, or simple majority.

This reminds me of the differences in US versus UK meaning for the
verb "to table". Or for the noun "fanny".


But we should use the Schulze method, not IRV.

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Re: An actual bikeshed

Jeremy Baron
On Jan 24, 2013 11:06 AM, "Brad Jorsch" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> But we should use the Schulze method, not IRV.

In either case we should use selectricity.
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Re: An actual bikeshed

Tei-2
In reply to this post by Chad
On 23 January 2013 19:11, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> There's been a lot of bikeshedding topics recently. On things ranging
> from spaces, to typos, to naming things. I was kind of tired of these
> mundane threads, so I decided to start one on something productive.
>
> What color should the bikeshed be?
>
> I vote blue.
>
> -Chad
>

The list is more professional than ever. Looking back to the beggining
of the history of the list is amazing how the wikitech has evolved.
Very impresive. And that make me very happy.  But this also make the
list very tecnical. Sometimes I don't even understand what you guys
are talking about, gerrit this, gerrit that,  ..but I always feel like
I am learning something every time I read a email here.

*insert here a funny and witty joke about bikesheeds*

--
--
ℱin del ℳensaje.

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Re: An actual bikeshed

Antoine Musso-3
In reply to this post by Chad
Le 23/01/13 19:11, Chad a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> There's been a lot of bikeshedding topics recently. On things ranging
> from spaces, to typos, to naming things. I was kind of tired of these
> mundane threads, so I decided to start one on something productive.
>
> What color should the bikeshed be?
>
> I vote blue.

J'ai une nette préférence pour l'utilisation du français quelque soit la
couleur finalement retenue.  J'avoue avoir un faible pour le mauve quoi
que le pourpre pourrait également me convenir.

--
Antoine "hashar" Musso
Hint: french!!


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