Are old versions kept indefinitely

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Are old versions kept indefinitely

Robert P. Biuk-Aghai
Hi,

Excuse what may be a stupid question, but I was burned using another
Wiki software so I have become more cautious: does MediWiki expire old
versions of article and talk pages and delete these from the database?
Or are all versions kept indefinitely (which is what I want)?

Robert.
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Re: Are old versions kept indefinitely

Brion Vibber
Robert P. Biuk-Aghai wrote:
> Excuse what may be a stupid question, but I was burned using another
> Wiki software so I have become more cautious: does MediWiki expire old
> versions of article and talk pages and delete these from the database?
> Or are all versions kept indefinitely (which is what I want)?

MediaWiki keeps all versions forever.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


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Re: Are old versions kept indefinitely

Dharmaweb.org
How can we delete it if we don't want to keep it?

On 1/12/06, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Robert P. Biuk-Aghai wrote:
> > Excuse what may be a stupid question, but I was burned using another
> > Wiki software so I have become more cautious: does MediWiki expire old
> > versions of article and talk pages and delete these from the database?
> > Or are all versions kept indefinitely (which is what I want)?
>
> MediaWiki keeps all versions forever.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
>
>
>
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Re: Are old versions kept indefinitely

Rob Church
You can mark specific revisions as deleted, and delete entire pages,
but a wiki engine is designed to keep old versions available in order
to allow them to be restored; whether this is undeleting entire pages,
or revisions, or merely rolling back/reverting to an older version of
a page, for whatever reason.


Rob Church

On 12/01/06, Dharmaweb.org <[hidden email]> wrote:

> How can we delete it if we don't want to keep it?
>
> On 1/12/06, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Robert P. Biuk-Aghai wrote:
> > > Excuse what may be a stupid question, but I was burned using another
> > > Wiki software so I have become more cautious: does MediWiki expire old
> > > versions of article and talk pages and delete these from the database?
> > > Or are all versions kept indefinitely (which is what I want)?
> >
> > MediaWiki keeps all versions forever.
> >
> > -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
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Re: Are old versions kept indefinitely

Dharmaweb.org
I hear you about the intended design of the engine is to keep everything.
Not every MediaWiki is intended to be used like wikipedia.  Sometimes, it's
not good to keep history for whatever purpose, such as space requirement,
sensitive info, copyrighted material, spambot and etc...There should be a
status code field where you can specified if the current page then the code
is 1 or and older pages should be 0 or something else.  As a site admin, all
I have to do is delete the page with statuscode other than 1.


On 1/12/06, Rob Church <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> You can mark specific revisions as deleted, and delete entire pages,
> but a wiki engine is designed to keep old versions available in order
> to allow them to be restored; whether this is undeleting entire pages,
> or revisions, or merely rolling back/reverting to an older version of
> a page, for whatever reason.
>
>
> Rob Church
>
> On 12/01/06, Dharmaweb.org <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > How can we delete it if we don't want to keep it?
> >
> > On 1/12/06, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Robert P. Biuk-Aghai wrote:
> > > > Excuse what may be a stupid question, but I was burned using another
> > > > Wiki software so I have become more cautious: does MediWiki expire
> old
> > > > versions of article and talk pages and delete these from the
> database?
> > > > Or are all versions kept indefinitely (which is what I want)?
> > >
> > > MediaWiki keeps all versions forever.
> > >
> > > -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
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Re: Are old versions kept indefinitely

Brion Vibber
In reply to this post by Dharmaweb.org
Dharmaweb.org wrote:
> How can we delete it if we don't want to keep it?

You could try using one of those wiki engines that is designed to destroy data
by default, such as UseMod.

MediaWiki is designed for Wikipedia and sites like it, and permanent retention
of edits is thus an absolute requirement for MediaWiki's target "market". If
someone recommended MediaWiki to you for a very limited-resource environment
where you can't afford to keep a little text around, you may have been misinformed.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


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Re: Are old versions kept indefinitely

Jan Steinman
In reply to this post by Robert P. Biuk-Aghai
> From: "Dharmaweb.org" <[hidden email]>
>
> I hear you about the intended design of the engine is to keep  
> everything. Not every MediaWiki is intended to be used like wikipedia.

I'll save Brion, Rob, et. al. the trouble of saying, "Someone  
designed a WONDERFUL hammer and gave it to you, free. If you want it  
to be a screwdriver, that's YOUR problem."

Radical transparency is a central tenet in Wikimedia Foundation.  
Anyone who asks for features (privacy, deletion, etc.) that subvert  
this are probably not going to get a welcome reception.

But you've got the source. Just do it. Just don't expect much help.

> As a site admin, all
> I have to do is delete the page with statuscode other than 1.

And as a diabolical site admin, all you have to do is set the  
statuscode of anything you disagree with or pages that might contain  
incriminating evidence of nefarious activities to 0...


:::: Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have  
guided missiles and misguided man. Martin Luther King Jr.
:::: Jan Steinman <http://www.Bytesmiths.com/Item/02CJDBGF>


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Re: Are old versions kept indefinitely

Bugzilla from sy1234@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Dharmaweb.org
On 1/12/06, Dharmaweb.org <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How can we delete it if we don't want to keep it?

A while back I asked this same question.  It seems that a lot of
people ask it and this feature won't be implemented for political
reasons.

However, I am hopeful that there are ways.  When I asked, Rob replied with:

Undelete the pages; yes, undelete. Then nip into the page table and
find out the page id...delete that page's row from the page table. Hop
over to the revisions table and delete all rows where rev_page is the
same as that page id. That's a permanent deletion; the page never
existed.

For the small touches, check that corresponding revisions are wiped
from the recent changes table, too.

--

I haven't tried this, but I want to someday (for various reasons).

If you do try this, please report back.  There are many people who
would be interested to learn of your experiences because we want to
use MediaWiki for what we want and it's capable of and not be limited
to how others use it or what it's built for.



... now if I take this hammer, and I turn it around and I use the
pry-part and wriggle it into the head of the screw, and I turn ...
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Re: Are old versions kept indefinitely

Jan Steinman
In reply to this post by Robert P. Biuk-Aghai
> From: Sy Ali <[hidden email]>
>
> It seems that a lot of
> people ask it and this feature won't be implemented for political
> reasons.

That has some negative connotations. Why don't we just say the  
developers don't want to go in that direction, and leave it at that,  
instead of constantly whining and tossing insinuations about?

We have a clash of values here. You value what you're trying to  
accomplish. Another person I've been corresponding with is blind to  
any value except "market share." The founders of WikiPedia have a set  
of values that they've implemented. Just leave it at that -- or fork  
off your own version that implements your own "values."

> ... now if I take this hammer, and I turn it around and I use the
> pry-part and wriggle it into the head of the screw, and I turn ...

I don't think anyone cares if you do this.

The issue is that you're proposing that the end of the hammer be  
sharpened to make it more suitable for driving screws, and then  
insist that the manufacture take back your "improved" design and  
incorporate it into all future hammers. Classic clash of values.

:::: ECONOMIST: a person who, upon encountering an auditorium  
containing 48,000 destitute, unemployed people and Bill Gates, says,  
“On average, I see a room full of millionaires!” ::::
:::: Jan Steinman http://www.EcoReality.org ::::


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