Asperges, ADHD and editors

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Asperges, ADHD and editors

RhinosF1 -
Evening all,

I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.

I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we were
wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would be
fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers, ADHD
and other simmilar conditions.

It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users were
more likely to work in.

Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand there
isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting the
information but if anyone knows of past research or has any information,
that would be helpful.

Stay Safe,
RhinosF1
--
Thanks,
Samuel
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

Jonathan Morgan
There's this study
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:The_Construction_and_Application_of_Personality_Profile_Based_on_User_Behavior_in_Wikipedia>
but I don't know if it was ever completed (and as you can infer from my
posts on the talkpage, I very much hope it was NOT).

In general, any kind of psychometric profiling of Wikipedia editors kind of
grosses me out. But as an armchair psychologist myself, as well as a
non-neurotypical individual, sure I'm happy to hypothesize that there are
many of us in the projects. It takes a certain mindset to find the process
of building an encyclopedia using 20-year old software paradigms to be
engaging ;)

- J

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:49 AM RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Evening all,
>
> I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.
>
> I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we were
> wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would be
> fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers, ADHD
> and other simmilar conditions.
>
> It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users were
> more likely to work in.
>
> Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand there
> isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
> reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting the
> information but if anyone knows of past research or has any information,
> that would be helpful.
>
> Stay Safe,
> RhinosF1
> --
> Thanks,
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>


--
Jonathan T. Morgan
Senior Design Researcher
Wikimedia Foundation
User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
(Uses He/Him)

*Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
weekends*
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

Joe Corneli-3
I wonder if rather than trying to sort people into existing categories, it
would be useful to have a more emergent understanding of Wikimedia and the
broader open source community.  Obviously we should be careful because it
could amount to playing with fire (cf. Cambridge Analytica).  *However*
there may also be ways to use some of related techniques "for good".  With
my colleagues at The Open University, we joked about "Milton Keynes
Analytica".  Specifically, we started from the point of view thinking about
how to model 'values'.  There's some overlap with psychological traits
(e.g., openness) but I think values particularly lend themselves towards
uses that support commons-creation rather than private-exploitation.  If
you think about the anti-patterns that challenge values and value-based
thinking, they are things like "dogma" (which would tend to shut down
conversations rather than use them as an opportunity to explore multiple
points of view).  In this sense it seems within Wikimedia's remit to
embrace values, especially the values of contributors and users.
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

RhinosF1 -
Hi,

I saw that J and I don’t think (luckily) it ever finished.

Your comment about it taking “a certain mindset” is very true and the
reason behind this post.

Joe, If you can help us bring any data to “good use” allowing a “more
emergent understanding” then please feel free to fire out suggestions.

Thanks!


On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 17:11, Joe Corneli <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I wonder if rather than trying to sort people into existing categories, it
> would be useful to have a more emergent understanding of Wikimedia and the
> broader open source community.  Obviously we should be careful because it
> could amount to playing with fire (cf. Cambridge Analytica).  *However*
> there may also be ways to use some of related techniques "for good".  With
> my colleagues at The Open University, we joked about "Milton Keynes
> Analytica".  Specifically, we started from the point of view thinking about
> how to model 'values'.  There's some overlap with psychological traits
> (e.g., openness) but I think values particularly lend themselves towards
> uses that support commons-creation rather than private-exploitation.  If
> you think about the anti-patterns that challenge values and value-based
> thinking, they are things like "dogma" (which would tend to shut down
> conversations rather than use them as an opportunity to explore multiple
> points of view).  In this sense it seems within Wikimedia's remit to
> embrace values, especially the values of contributors and users.
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
--
Thanks,
Samuel
_______________________________________________
Wiki-research-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
fn
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

fn
In reply to this post by RhinosF1 -
For the reviews that summarized research some time ago:

The people's encyclopedia under the gaze of the sages: A systematic
review of scholarly research on Wikipedia (page 56
https://orbit.dtu.dk/ws/files/52914302/SSRN_id2021326.pdf

Wikipedia research and tools: Review and comments (page 23)
http://www.imm.dtu.dk/pubdb/views/edoc_download.php/6012/pdf/imm6012.pdf

we only found the Amichai-Hamburger et al. study (or at least I only
recall finding):

Yair Amichai-Hamburger, Naama Lamdan, Rinat Madiel, and Tsahi Hayat.
Personality characteristics of wikipedia members. CyberPsychology &
Behavior, 11(6):679–681, December 2008.

I summarized it with:

Application of the Big Five Inventory and Real-Me personality
questionnaires to 139 Wikipedia and non-Wikipedia users. The recruitment
was based on targeting posting of links. Wikipedians scored lower on
agreeableness and higher on openness. Differences in extroversion and
conscientiousness depended on the sex of the subject.


My guess is that Wikipedians are not disproportionately ADHD, perhaps
the reverse.


Finn Årup Nielsen


On 4/2/20 5:49 PM, RhinosF1 - wrote:

> Evening all,
>
> I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.
>
> I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we were
> wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would be
> fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers, ADHD
> and other simmilar conditions.
>
> It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users were
> more likely to work in.
>
> Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand there
> isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
> reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting the
> information but if anyone knows of past research or has any information,
> that would be helpful.
>
> Stay Safe,
> RhinosF1
>

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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by Jonathan Morgan
Hoi,
We regularly have problems with people. We have people who are banned
because people think they are problematic. We have banned people who have
contributed hugely to our projects. The notion that it is stigmatising is a
notion whereby we wash our hands in innocence, we do not want to know.

It is one thing that you personally are grossed out but I hope you
understand that given that this is an issue we need to address. It is not
only people who do not care for rules, it is also the people who obsess
about rules. You find it in the excessive attention for Clarice Phelps.
People do get hurt, people do get traumatised because of this inattention.
Thanks,
       GerardM

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 17:58, Jonathan Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There's this study
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:The_Construction_and_Application_of_Personality_Profile_Based_on_User_Behavior_in_Wikipedia
> >
> but I don't know if it was ever completed (and as you can infer from my
> posts on the talkpage, I very much hope it was NOT).
>
> In general, any kind of psychometric profiling of Wikipedia editors kind of
> grosses me out. But as an armchair psychologist myself, as well as a
> non-neurotypical individual, sure I'm happy to hypothesize that there are
> many of us in the projects. It takes a certain mindset to find the process
> of building an encyclopedia using 20-year old software paradigms to be
> engaging ;)
>
> - J
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:49 AM RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Evening all,
> >
> > I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.
> >
> > I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we were
> > wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would be
> > fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers, ADHD
> > and other simmilar conditions.
> >
> > It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users
> were
> > more likely to work in.
> >
> > Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand there
> > isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
> > reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting the
> > information but if anyone knows of past research or has any information,
> > that would be helpful.
> >
> > Stay Safe,
> > RhinosF1
> > --
> > Thanks,
> > Samuel
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Jonathan T. Morgan
> Senior Design Researcher
> Wikimedia Foundation
> User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> (Uses He/Him)
>
> *Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
> weekends*
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

RhinosF1 -
Hey,

I think the quote “ Wikipedians are not disproportionately ADHD, perhaps
the reverse.” is an interesting opinion as the view of many seems to be
that Wikimedia Projects require charectersitics common of people in those
groups.

Gerard, I agree that we can have issues with people.

Thanks!

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 19:29, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hoi,
> We regularly have problems with people. We have people who are banned
> because people think they are problematic. We have banned people who have
> contributed hugely to our projects. The notion that it is stigmatising is a
> notion whereby we wash our hands in innocence, we do not want to know.
>
> It is one thing that you personally are grossed out but I hope you
> understand that given that this is an issue we need to address. It is not
> only people who do not care for rules, it is also the people who obsess
> about rules. You find it in the excessive attention for Clarice Phelps.
> People do get hurt, people do get traumatised because of this inattention.
> Thanks,
>        GerardM
>
> On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 17:58, Jonathan Morgan <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > There's this study
> > <
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:The_Construction_and_Application_of_Personality_Profile_Based_on_User_Behavior_in_Wikipedia
> > >
> > but I don't know if it was ever completed (and as you can infer from my
> > posts on the talkpage, I very much hope it was NOT).
> >
> > In general, any kind of psychometric profiling of Wikipedia editors kind
> of
> > grosses me out. But as an armchair psychologist myself, as well as a
> > non-neurotypical individual, sure I'm happy to hypothesize that there are
> > many of us in the projects. It takes a certain mindset to find the
> process
> > of building an encyclopedia using 20-year old software paradigms to be
> > engaging ;)
> >
> > - J
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:49 AM RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Evening all,
> > >
> > > I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.
> > >
> > > I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we
> were
> > > wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would be
> > > fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers,
> ADHD
> > > and other simmilar conditions.
> > >
> > > It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users
> > were
> > > more likely to work in.
> > >
> > > Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand there
> > > isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
> > > reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting the
> > > information but if anyone knows of past research or has any
> information,
> > > that would be helpful.
> > >
> > > Stay Safe,
> > > RhinosF1
> > > --
> > > Thanks,
> > > Samuel
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan T. Morgan
> > Senior Design Researcher
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> > (Uses He/Him)
> >
> > *Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
> > weekends*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
--
Thanks,
Samuel
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

Leila Zia-2
Hi RhinosF1,

If you already haven't seen it, you may be interested to check out
StackOverflow's Annual Developer Survey. Every year, they ask
developers across the globe a variety of questions including their
demographics and within that they have a category called developer
profile. Check out their 2019 results [1]. They specifically collect
data on mood or emotional disorder, anxiety disorder, concentration
and/or memory disorder, and autism spectrum disorder:
https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#developer-profile-_-disability-status

Best,
Leila

[1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019

--
Leila Zia
Head of Research
Wikimedia Foundation

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 11:50 AM RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hey,
>
> I think the quote “ Wikipedians are not disproportionately ADHD, perhaps
> the reverse.” is an interesting opinion as the view of many seems to be
> that Wikimedia Projects require charectersitics common of people in those
> groups.
>
> Gerard, I agree that we can have issues with people.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 19:29, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > We regularly have problems with people. We have people who are banned
> > because people think they are problematic. We have banned people who have
> > contributed hugely to our projects. The notion that it is stigmatising is a
> > notion whereby we wash our hands in innocence, we do not want to know.
> >
> > It is one thing that you personally are grossed out but I hope you
> > understand that given that this is an issue we need to address. It is not
> > only people who do not care for rules, it is also the people who obsess
> > about rules. You find it in the excessive attention for Clarice Phelps.
> > People do get hurt, people do get traumatised because of this inattention.
> > Thanks,
> >        GerardM
> >
> > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 17:58, Jonathan Morgan <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > There's this study
> > > <
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:The_Construction_and_Application_of_Personality_Profile_Based_on_User_Behavior_in_Wikipedia
> > > >
> > > but I don't know if it was ever completed (and as you can infer from my
> > > posts on the talkpage, I very much hope it was NOT).
> > >
> > > In general, any kind of psychometric profiling of Wikipedia editors kind
> > of
> > > grosses me out. But as an armchair psychologist myself, as well as a
> > > non-neurotypical individual, sure I'm happy to hypothesize that there are
> > > many of us in the projects. It takes a certain mindset to find the
> > process
> > > of building an encyclopedia using 20-year old software paradigms to be
> > > engaging ;)
> > >
> > > - J
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:49 AM RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Evening all,
> > > >
> > > > I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.
> > > >
> > > > I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we
> > were
> > > > wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would be
> > > > fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers,
> > ADHD
> > > > and other simmilar conditions.
> > > >
> > > > It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users
> > > were
> > > > more likely to work in.
> > > >
> > > > Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand there
> > > > isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
> > > > reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting the
> > > > information but if anyone knows of past research or has any
> > information,
> > > > that would be helpful.
> > > >
> > > > Stay Safe,
> > > > RhinosF1
> > > > --
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Samuel
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan T. Morgan
> > > Senior Design Researcher
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> > > (Uses He/Him)
> > >
> > > *Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
> > > weekends*
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
> --
> Thanks,
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l

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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

RhinosF1 -
Hi Lelia,

That provides a lot of insight! I’ll give it a deep look tommorow.

Applies to some areas of the movement but not more content-related ones.

Thanks!

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 20:02, Leila Zia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi RhinosF1,
>
> If you already haven't seen it, you may be interested to check out
> StackOverflow's Annual Developer Survey. Every year, they ask
> developers across the globe a variety of questions including their
> demographics and within that they have a category called developer
> profile. Check out their 2019 results [1]. They specifically collect
> data on mood or emotional disorder, anxiety disorder, concentration
> and/or memory disorder, and autism spectrum disorder:
>
> https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#developer-profile-_-disability-status
>
> Best,
> Leila
>
> [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019
>
> --
> Leila Zia
> Head of Research
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 11:50 AM RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hey,
> >
> > I think the quote “ Wikipedians are not disproportionately ADHD, perhaps
> > the reverse.” is an interesting opinion as the view of many seems to be
> > that Wikimedia Projects require charectersitics common of people in those
> > groups.
> >
> > Gerard, I agree that we can have issues with people.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 19:29, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > We regularly have problems with people. We have people who are banned
> > > because people think they are problematic. We have banned people who
> have
> > > contributed hugely to our projects. The notion that it is stigmatising
> is a
> > > notion whereby we wash our hands in innocence, we do not want to know.
> > >
> > > It is one thing that you personally are grossed out but I hope you
> > > understand that given that this is an issue we need to address. It is
> not
> > > only people who do not care for rules, it is also the people who obsess
> > > about rules. You find it in the excessive attention for Clarice Phelps.
> > > People do get hurt, people do get traumatised because of this
> inattention.
> > > Thanks,
> > >        GerardM
> > >
> > > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 17:58, Jonathan Morgan <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > There's this study
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:The_Construction_and_Application_of_Personality_Profile_Based_on_User_Behavior_in_Wikipedia
> > > > >
> > > > but I don't know if it was ever completed (and as you can infer from
> my
> > > > posts on the talkpage, I very much hope it was NOT).
> > > >
> > > > In general, any kind of psychometric profiling of Wikipedia editors
> kind
> > > of
> > > > grosses me out. But as an armchair psychologist myself, as well as a
> > > > non-neurotypical individual, sure I'm happy to hypothesize that
> there are
> > > > many of us in the projects. It takes a certain mindset to find the
> > > process
> > > > of building an encyclopedia using 20-year old software paradigms to
> be
> > > > engaging ;)
> > > >
> > > > - J
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:49 AM RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Evening all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living
> in.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and
> we
> > > were
> > > > > wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites
> would be
> > > > > fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers,
> > > ADHD
> > > > > and other simmilar conditions.
> > > > >
> > > > > It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these
> users
> > > > were
> > > > > more likely to work in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand
> there
> > > > > isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want
> to
> > > > > reveal this information and there is no clear reason for
> collecting the
> > > > > information but if anyone knows of past research or has any
> > > information,
> > > > > that would be helpful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Stay Safe,
> > > > > RhinosF1
> > > > > --
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Samuel
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jonathan T. Morgan
> > > > Senior Design Researcher
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > > User:Jmorgan (WMF) <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> > > > (Uses He/Him)
> > > >
> > > > *Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
> > > > weekends*
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > >
> > --
> > Thanks,
> > Samuel
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
--
Thanks,
Samuel
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

Jonathan Morgan
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
Gerard,

To clarify, what grosses me out ("makes me uncomfortable") is the prospect
of third parties gathering and storing sensitive personal information about
individual Wikipedia editors without proper oversight mechanisms. Health
and medical data is one of the most sensitive kinds of individual data that
exists. In the United States, as in many other countries, access to this
information is heavily regulated--as it should be. Researchers who gather
this kind of data should be held to a very high standard of proof that they
will use the data responsibly, and take specific care to avoid information
leakage. Ideally, they should be held legally responsible for proper
behavior--and that depends heavily on their local jurisdiction and on their
own truthfulness and transparency--things the rest of us in the movement
have little control over. In my opinion, anyone who cares about both
science and ethics should always err on the side of avoiding harm
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belmont_Report>--even if that sometimes
means refraining from asking research questions that have scientific merit
or that could yield practical community benefit.

To your comment about Clarice Phelps, I'm not aware of this individual (or
article?) and do not know what you are referring to. But I would caution
you not to make public speculative statements about the mental health
status of any editor, or make generalizations about the motivations or
actions of all people who you believe have particular mental
characteristics, based on specific incidents you have witnessed or
interactions you have had. If I have misread your statement, I apologize
for the error.

Best,
Jonathan

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 11:29 AM Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hoi,
> We regularly have problems with people. We have people who are banned
> because people think they are problematic. We have banned people who have
> contributed hugely to our projects. The notion that it is stigmatising is a
> notion whereby we wash our hands in innocence, we do not want to know.
>
> It is one thing that you personally are grossed out but I hope you
> understand that given that this is an issue we need to address. It is not
> only people who do not care for rules, it is also the people who obsess
> about rules. You find it in the excessive attention for Clarice Phelps.
> People do get hurt, people do get traumatised because of this inattention.
> Thanks,
>        GerardM
>
> On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 17:58, Jonathan Morgan <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > There's this study
> > <
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:The_Construction_and_Application_of_Personality_Profile_Based_on_User_Behavior_in_Wikipedia
> > >
> > but I don't know if it was ever completed (and as you can infer from my
> > posts on the talkpage, I very much hope it was NOT).
> >
> > In general, any kind of psychometric profiling of Wikipedia editors kind
> of
> > grosses me out. But as an armchair psychologist myself, as well as a
> > non-neurotypical individual, sure I'm happy to hypothesize that there are
> > many of us in the projects. It takes a certain mindset to find the
> process
> > of building an encyclopedia using 20-year old software paradigms to be
> > engaging ;)
> >
> > - J
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:49 AM RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Evening all,
> > >
> > > I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.
> > >
> > > I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we
> were
> > > wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would be
> > > fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers,
> ADHD
> > > and other simmilar conditions.
> > >
> > > It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users
> > were
> > > more likely to work in.
> > >
> > > Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand there
> > > isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
> > > reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting the
> > > information but if anyone knows of past research or has any
> information,
> > > that would be helpful.
> > >
> > > Stay Safe,
> > > RhinosF1
> > > --
> > > Thanks,
> > > Samuel
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan T. Morgan
> > Senior Design Researcher
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> > (Uses He/Him)
> >
> > *Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
> > weekends*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>


--
Jonathan T. Morgan
Senior Design Researcher
Wikimedia Foundation
User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
(Uses He/Him)

*Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
weekends*
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

Joe Corneli-3
This section fills in some of the gaps left by the statement: "It is not
only people who do not care for rules, it is also the people who obsess
about rules."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarice_Phelps#Wikipedia_article
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

WereSpielChequers-2
In reply to this post by RhinosF1 -
I can fully understand that Wikipedians might be reluctant to reveal this
sort of information, especially if they edit under their own name. But some
do, and there are currently 624 Wikipedians who have put themselves in the
category
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedians_with_Asperger_syndrome
OK that includes quite a few duplicates, but so do the other user
categories, most of which seem a lot smaller. By contrast there doesn't
seem to be an ADHD category.

Equally, I can remember several discussions where people have commented on
the need for things to be done a certain way to accommodate people on that
spectrum, while it is rare for similar comments to come up about other
issues - colour blindness and other vision issues occasionally, but after
the needs of people who use "text to speech", I wouldn't be surprised if
Aspergers was the second most common I have seen mentioned in the community.

Regards

Jonathan

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 16:49, RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Evening all,
>
> I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.
>
> I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we were
> wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would be
> fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers, ADHD
> and other simmilar conditions.
>
> It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users were
> more likely to work in.
>
> Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand there
> isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
> reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting the
> information but if anyone knows of past research or has any information,
> that would be helpful.
>
> Stay Safe,
> RhinosF1
> --
> Thanks,
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

RhinosF1 -
Hey Jonathon,

I saw that earlier but what the category doesn’t show is what percentage of
editors are and whether that’s disproportiante.

I don’t think we can get that from a category due to the differing ways
people handle their userspace.

Thanks!

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 21:41, WereSpielChequers <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I can fully understand that Wikipedians might be reluctant to reveal this
> sort of information, especially if they edit under their own name. But some
> do, and there are currently 624 Wikipedians who have put themselves in the
> category
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedians_with_Asperger_syndrome
> OK that includes quite a few duplicates, but so do the other user
> categories, most of which seem a lot smaller. By contrast there doesn't
> seem to be an ADHD category.
>
> Equally, I can remember several discussions where people have commented on
> the need for things to be done a certain way to accommodate people on that
> spectrum, while it is rare for similar comments to come up about other
> issues - colour blindness and other vision issues occasionally, but after
> the needs of people who use "text to speech", I wouldn't be surprised if
> Aspergers was the second most common I have seen mentioned in the
> community.
>
> Regards
>
> Jonathan
>
> On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 16:49, RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Evening all,
> >
> > I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.
> >
> > I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we were
> > wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would be
> > fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers, ADHD
> > and other simmilar conditions.
> >
> > It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users
> were
> > more likely to work in.
> >
> > Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand there
> > isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
> > reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting the
> > information but if anyone knows of past research or has any information,
> > that would be helpful.
> >
> > Stay Safe,
> > RhinosF1
> > --
> > Thanks,
> > Samuel
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
--
Thanks,
Samuel
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
In reply to this post by WereSpielChequers-2
See also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Userboxes/Health/Mental
and semi-related
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Userboxes/Personality
plus the essays
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:High-functioning_autism_and_Asperger%27s_editors
(plus the French and Chinese Wikipedia's equivalent pages for that second
essay, which likely have different content)

Sidenote: I worry about those userboxes, for the same reasons mentioned in
this thread. I wonder if there ought to be a warning at the top of that
listing-page, reminding editors to be careful... [but userboxes are a
complicated can of worms, and it's probably been discussed before, so I
won't wade into it.]

--Quiddity
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

RhinosF1 -
I don’t think userboxes are the best thing to use as evidence for any claim

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 23:38, Nick Wilson (Quiddity) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> See also
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Userboxes/Health/Mental
> and semi-related
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Userboxes/Personality
> plus the essays
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder_editors
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:High-functioning_autism_and_Asperger%27s_editors
> (plus the French and Chinese Wikipedia's equivalent pages for that second
> essay, which likely have different content)
>
> Sidenote: I worry about those userboxes, for the same reasons mentioned in
> this thread. I wonder if there ought to be a warning at the top of that
> listing-page, reminding editors to be careful... [but userboxes are a
> complicated can of worms, and it's probably been discussed before, so I
> won't wade into it.]
>
> --Quiddity
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
--
Thanks,
Samuel
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

Delphine Ménard -2
In reply to this post by Jonathan Morgan
Thank you for clarifying Jonathan. I am with you when it comes to the
sensitivity of handling any data of this sort (and any personal data, for
that matter).

As to the need for this kind of data, I believe that it is actually
extremely important. I have to say that in 15 years in the movement, I have
been wondering how we could better learn about the people who participate
in our projects and how this knowledge would affect the way we interact
with each other. I think that there are a lot of things we are not doing
well right now *because* we don't know for sure where people in the
movement actually even categorize themselves. The same way we
translate things for people to have them in their own language,
understanding people's neurological differences or social constraints and
their prevalence in our communities might be tremendously helpful in order
to design training for conflict resolution, newcomers integration, staff
training to work with community members, and even, I imagine, for something
as important as writing the code of conduct in a way that makes sense for
*everyone*.

As I am developing my program around onboarding WMF staff around community
and movement, this is definitely something I want to make sure that we
don't overlook, because I think that the better we understand each other,
the easier it is to work together productively.

Best,

Delphine

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 9:35 PM Jonathan Morgan <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Gerard,
>
> To clarify, what grosses me out ("makes me uncomfortable") is the prospect
> of third parties gathering and storing sensitive personal information about
> individual Wikipedia editors without proper oversight mechanisms. Health
> and medical data is one of the most sensitive kinds of individual data that
> exists. In the United States, as in many other countries, access to this
> information is heavily regulated--as it should be. Researchers who gather
> this kind of data should be held to a very high standard of proof that they
> will use the data responsibly, and take specific care to avoid information
> leakage. Ideally, they should be held legally responsible for proper
> behavior--and that depends heavily on their local jurisdiction and on their
> own truthfulness and transparency--things the rest of us in the movement
> have little control over. In my opinion, anyone who cares about both
> science and ethics should always err on the side of avoiding harm
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belmont_Report>--even if that sometimes
> means refraining from asking research questions that have scientific merit
> or that could yield practical community benefit.
>
> To your comment about Clarice Phelps, I'm not aware of this individual (or
> article?) and do not know what you are referring to. But I would caution
> you not to make public speculative statements about the mental health
> status of any editor, or make generalizations about the motivations or
> actions of all people who you believe have particular mental
> characteristics, based on specific incidents you have witnessed or
> interactions you have had. If I have misread your statement, I apologize
> for the error.
>
> Best,
> Jonathan
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 11:29 AM Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > We regularly have problems with people. We have people who are banned
> > because people think they are problematic. We have banned people who have
> > contributed hugely to our projects. The notion that it is stigmatising
> is a
> > notion whereby we wash our hands in innocence, we do not want to know.
> >
> > It is one thing that you personally are grossed out but I hope you
> > understand that given that this is an issue we need to address. It is not
> > only people who do not care for rules, it is also the people who obsess
> > about rules. You find it in the excessive attention for Clarice Phelps.
> > People do get hurt, people do get traumatised because of this
> inattention.
> > Thanks,
> >        GerardM
> >
> > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 17:58, Jonathan Morgan <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > There's this study
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:The_Construction_and_Application_of_Personality_Profile_Based_on_User_Behavior_in_Wikipedia
> > > >
> > > but I don't know if it was ever completed (and as you can infer from my
> > > posts on the talkpage, I very much hope it was NOT).
> > >
> > > In general, any kind of psychometric profiling of Wikipedia editors
> kind
> > of
> > > grosses me out. But as an armchair psychologist myself, as well as a
> > > non-neurotypical individual, sure I'm happy to hypothesize that there
> are
> > > many of us in the projects. It takes a certain mindset to find the
> > process
> > > of building an encyclopedia using 20-year old software paradigms to be
> > > engaging ;)
> > >
> > > - J
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:49 AM RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Evening all,
> > > >
> > > > I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.
> > > >
> > > > I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we
> > were
> > > > wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would
> be
> > > > fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers,
> > ADHD
> > > > and other simmilar conditions.
> > > >
> > > > It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users
> > > were
> > > > more likely to work in.
> > > >
> > > > Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand
> there
> > > > isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
> > > > reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting
> the
> > > > information but if anyone knows of past research or has any
> > information,
> > > > that would be helpful.
> > > >
> > > > Stay Safe,
> > > > RhinosF1
> > > > --
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Samuel
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan T. Morgan
> > > Senior Design Researcher
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)
> >
> > > (Uses He/Him)
> > >
> > > *Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
> > > weekends*
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Jonathan T. Morgan
> Senior Design Researcher
> Wikimedia Foundation
> User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> (Uses He/Him)
>
> *Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
> weekends*
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>


--
*Delphine Ménard* (she/her)
Senior Orientation Specialist
Strategy Liaison
User:Delphine_(WMF)
Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

RhinosF1 -
Hi,

I think everyone should be very sensitive around personal data, even more
so of this nature.

As long as we can make the need for the data clear to participants and
those involved, it should be acceptable in my opinion and we can probably
learn things about the project dyamics from such research.

It is definately better if we can improve how we understand each other.

Thanks,
RhinosF1

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 12:14, Delphine Ménard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you for clarifying Jonathan. I am with you when it comes to the
> sensitivity of handling any data of this sort (and any personal data, for
> that matter).
>
> As to the need for this kind of data, I believe that it is actually
> extremely important. I have to say that in 15 years in the movement, I have
> been wondering how we could better learn about the people who participate
> in our projects and how this knowledge would affect the way we interact
> with each other. I think that there are a lot of things we are not doing
> well right now *because* we don't know for sure where people in the
> movement actually even categorize themselves. The same way we
> translate things for people to have them in their own language,
> understanding people's neurological differences or social constraints and
> their prevalence in our communities might be tremendously helpful in order
> to design training for conflict resolution, newcomers integration, staff
> training to work with community members, and even, I imagine, for something
> as important as writing the code of conduct in a way that makes sense for
> *everyone*.
>
> As I am developing my program around onboarding WMF staff around community
> and movement, this is definitely something I want to make sure that we
> don't overlook, because I think that the better we understand each other,
> the easier it is to work together productively.
>
> Best,
>
> Delphine
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 9:35 PM Jonathan Morgan <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Gerard,
> >
> > To clarify, what grosses me out ("makes me uncomfortable") is the
> prospect
> > of third parties gathering and storing sensitive personal information
> about
> > individual Wikipedia editors without proper oversight mechanisms. Health
> > and medical data is one of the most sensitive kinds of individual data
> that
> > exists. In the United States, as in many other countries, access to this
> > information is heavily regulated--as it should be. Researchers who gather
> > this kind of data should be held to a very high standard of proof that
> they
> > will use the data responsibly, and take specific care to avoid
> information
> > leakage. Ideally, they should be held legally responsible for proper
> > behavior--and that depends heavily on their local jurisdiction and on
> their
> > own truthfulness and transparency--things the rest of us in the movement
> > have little control over. In my opinion, anyone who cares about both
> > science and ethics should always err on the side of avoiding harm
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belmont_Report>--even if that sometimes
> > means refraining from asking research questions that have scientific
> merit
> > or that could yield practical community benefit.
> >
> > To your comment about Clarice Phelps, I'm not aware of this individual
> (or
> > article?) and do not know what you are referring to. But I would caution
> > you not to make public speculative statements about the mental health
> > status of any editor, or make generalizations about the motivations or
> > actions of all people who you believe have particular mental
> > characteristics, based on specific incidents you have witnessed or
> > interactions you have had. If I have misread your statement, I apologize
> > for the error.
> >
> > Best,
> > Jonathan
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 11:29 AM Gerard Meijssen <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > We regularly have problems with people. We have people who are banned
> > > because people think they are problematic. We have banned people who
> have
> > > contributed hugely to our projects. The notion that it is stigmatising
> > is a
> > > notion whereby we wash our hands in innocence, we do not want to know.
> > >
> > > It is one thing that you personally are grossed out but I hope you
> > > understand that given that this is an issue we need to address. It is
> not
> > > only people who do not care for rules, it is also the people who obsess
> > > about rules. You find it in the excessive attention for Clarice Phelps.
> > > People do get hurt, people do get traumatised because of this
> > inattention.
> > > Thanks,
> > >        GerardM
> > >
> > > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 17:58, Jonathan Morgan <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > There's this study
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:The_Construction_and_Application_of_Personality_Profile_Based_on_User_Behavior_in_Wikipedia
> > > > >
> > > > but I don't know if it was ever completed (and as you can infer from
> my
> > > > posts on the talkpage, I very much hope it was NOT).
> > > >
> > > > In general, any kind of psychometric profiling of Wikipedia editors
> > kind
> > > of
> > > > grosses me out. But as an armchair psychologist myself, as well as a
> > > > non-neurotypical individual, sure I'm happy to hypothesize that there
> > are
> > > > many of us in the projects. It takes a certain mindset to find the
> > > process
> > > > of building an encyclopedia using 20-year old software paradigms to
> be
> > > > engaging ;)
> > > >
> > > > - J
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:49 AM RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Evening all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living
> in.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and
> we
> > > were
> > > > > wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would
> > be
> > > > > fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers,
> > > ADHD
> > > > > and other simmilar conditions.
> > > > >
> > > > > It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these
> users
> > > > were
> > > > > more likely to work in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand
> > there
> > > > > isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want
> to
> > > > > reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting
> > the
> > > > > information but if anyone knows of past research or has any
> > > information,
> > > > > that would be helpful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Stay Safe,
> > > > > RhinosF1
> > > > > --
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Samuel
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jonathan T. Morgan
> > > > Senior Design Researcher
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > > User:Jmorgan (WMF) <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)
> > >
> > > > (Uses He/Him)
> > > >
> > > > *Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
> > > > weekends*
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan T. Morgan
> > Senior Design Researcher
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> > (Uses He/Him)
> >
> > *Please note that I do not expect a response from you on evenings or
> > weekends*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
>
>
> --
> *Delphine Ménard* (she/her)
> Senior Orientation Specialist
> Strategy Liaison
> User:Delphine_(WMF)
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
--
Thanks,
Samuel
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

RhinosF1 -
In reply to this post by RhinosF1 -
Thanks for your responses!

I’ll probably be here for the office hour at the end of the month.

My thoughts are that it would be interesting research to do but we’d
probably have to target about ~1 000 editors, to get ~100 responses and/or
post on the village pumps of most English and multilingual wikis.

We might need to consider asking about the experience that users in these
groups but I’d also consider asking:

1) Which of the following groups you fit into:
- Neurotypical
- Aspergers / Autism Spectrum Disorder
- ADHD
- Other non-neurotypical disorder

2) Which type of editor you are?
- Content Curator
- Counter Vandalism Network
- Copy-Editor
- Image & File curator
- Technical Contributor

3) What your homewiki is?

4) Which wikis you are most active in?

Feel free to suggest more possible options and questions, especially
wording about experience.

I would also love it if someone can agree to collabarate on it and help get
research pages set up & approved.

I probably would collect Wikimedia Username so we can filter duplicate
responses and not remond people more than once if we send a reminder but
destroy that shortly after it’s complete.

Thanks,
RhinosF1

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 16:49, RhinosF1 - <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Evening all,
>
> I hope everyone is doing well given the crazy world we’re living in.
>
> I was having a conversation with a few users on Discord today and we were
> wondering whether wikimedia (or users of other similiar sites would be
> fine) disproportinately fall into the category of having aspergers, ADHD
> and other simmilar conditions.
>
> It would be even better if anyone knew what sort of areas these users were
> more likely to work in.
>
> Following a chat with Issac in #wikimedia-research, I understand there
> isn’t much support for this kind of research as users may not want to
> reveal this information and there is no clear reason for collecting the
> information but if anyone knows of past research or has any information,
> that would be helpful.
>
> Stay Safe,
> RhinosF1
> --
> Thanks,
> Samuel
>
--
Thanks,
Samuel
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

Aron Manning
In reply to this post by Joe Corneli-3
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 21:49, Joe Corneli <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This section fills in some of the gaps left by the statement: "It is not
> only people who do not care for rules, it is also the people who obsess
> about rules."
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarice_Phelps#Wikipedia_article


A little history:
Clarice Phelps is notable both as a scientist and for being deleted from
Wikipedia as non-notable :-), which resulted in significant media coverage.
The admin "Rama" tried to "do the right thing" in the wrong manner by
restoring the article and - without supporters - lost his tools:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Rama#Locus_of_dispute

Demian (Aron)
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Re: Asperges, ADHD and editors

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
If this stands on its own, ok. It does not, it is part and parcel of the
bias you find in English Wikipedia. Informing about one case does not
negate even address the obsession with rules.
Thanks,
       GerardM


On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 at 02:03, Aron Demian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 21:49, Joe Corneli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > This section fills in some of the gaps left by the statement: "It is not
> > only people who do not care for rules, it is also the people who obsess
> > about rules."
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarice_Phelps#Wikipedia_article
>
>
> A little history:
> Clarice Phelps is notable both as a scientist and for being deleted from
> Wikipedia as non-notable :-), which resulted in significant media coverage.
> The admin "Rama" tried to "do the right thing" in the wrong manner by
> restoring the article and - without supporters - lost his tools:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Rama#Locus_of_dispute
>
> Demian (Aron)
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
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