Baidupedia copyvio collections

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Waerth
IMHO, if they do not give proper attribution and do not respond (which
doesn't surprise me as I said earlier) and we do not have the resources
to do a lawsuit. There is only one way out. Make a stink about it and
make them loose face. In my experience here in Thailand this is a last
resort option here in this part of Asia. But most people here in this
region are more terrified to loose their face than anything else. If
they feel that they will loose face over an issue they will most
probably come and talk to get things straightened out. If not and we
make them loose face though, they will surely never talk to us again!

Like I said it would be a last resort and I have used this option myself
a couple of times with amazing results.

Waerth


> Dan Rosenthal wrote:
>  
>>> I have long felt that the difficulties when our collective copyrights
>>> are breached would be greater than any problem we would face in trying
>>> to abide by the rights of others.  We have any number of layers to
>>> protect us from legal liabilities from copyvios, but there is very
>>> little effort to deal with being on the other side of the dispute.  This
>>> is definitely a point that I would raise before the Board if elected.
>>>    
>>>      
>> Financially, I have been led to believe the WMF does not really have the
>>  
>> resources available to be spending on prosecuting intellectual property
>> violations other than what we can do by hoping people abide by C+D letters.
>> Which is a shame too, because I would very much like to see the foundation
>> more litigious in its defense of our licenses by pursuing sites that use our
>> contributors works without attribution, (as well as other violations of our
>> IPs).
>>
>>
>>  
>>    
>
> Sometimes, a lack of finances can be an easy excuse.  Like anything else
> if it's otherwise a good idea, it needs to be given room in the budget.  
> Michael Bimmler's allusion to moral rights made me wonder whether a case
> could be brought in another country that has strong moral rights
> legislation.  We wouldn't be looking for money, though it would be nice
> to recover the costs of the suit.  We want proper attribution.
>
> The right of attribution is essential to maintaining the viral character
> of copyleft.  Copyrights need to be vigorously defended, or they risk
> being treated as abandoned. If we tacitly consent to Baidu's improper
> use of our material it puts into doubt the use of the same material
> further downstream.  There would be a presumption that they have a
> copyright on what they publish, and that would put a chill on anyone
> wanting to use their material.  Commercial publishers may very well ask
> and easily receive permission to use "their" material.  Acknowledging in
> public that it is used with Baidu's permission would then strengthen the
> fiction that there is a real copyright.
>
> Ec
>
>
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>
>
>  

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Ray Saintonge
Waerth wrote:

> IMHO, if they do not give proper attribution and do not respond (which
> doesn't surprise me as I said earlier) and we do not have the resources
> to do a lawsuit. There is only one way out. Make a stink about it and
> make them loose face. In my experience here in Thailand this is a last
> resort option here in this part of Asia. But most people here in this
> region are more terrified to loose their face than anything else. If
> they feel that they will loose face over an issue they will most
> probably come and talk to get things straightened out. If not and we
> make them loose face though, they will surely never talk to us again!
>
> Like I said it would be a last resort and I have used this option myself
> a couple of times with amazing results.
Something of the sort had crossed my mind; thanks for raising the point.

Ec

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Waerth
2008/6/12 Waerth <[hidden email]>:

> IMHO, if they do not give proper attribution and do not respond (which
> doesn't surprise me as I said earlier) and we do not have the resources
> to do a lawsuit. There is only one way out. Make a stink about it and
> make them loose face. In my experience here in Thailand this is a last
> resort option here in this part of Asia. But most people here in this
> region are more terrified to loose their face than anything else. If
> they feel that they will loose face over an issue they will most
> probably come and talk to get things straightened out. If not and we
> make them loose face though, they will surely never talk to us again!
> Like I said it would be a last resort and I have used this option myself
> a couple of times with amazing results.


IIRC Florence tried this at Wikimania 2007 and it didn't do anything.


- d.

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Waerth
David Gerard wrote:

> 2008/6/12 Waerth <[hidden email]>:
>
>  
>> IMHO, if they do not give proper attribution and do not respond (which
>> doesn't surprise me as I said earlier) and we do not have the resources
>> to do a lawsuit. There is only one way out. Make a stink about it and
>> make them loose face. In my experience here in Thailand this is a last
>> resort option here in this part of Asia. But most people here in this
>> region are more terrified to loose their face than anything else. If
>> they feel that they will loose face over an issue they will most
>> probably come and talk to get things straightened out. If not and we
>> make them loose face though, they will surely never talk to us again!
>> Like I said it would be a last resort and I have used this option myself
>> a couple of times with amazing results.
>>    
>
>
> IIRC Florence tried this at Wikimania 2007 and it didn't do anything.
>  
Then they weren't impressed enough with the face loosing potential. It
isn't an easy thing. It must be done in such a way that you are the
honorable party (and no not western honor, Asian/Chinese honor). And it
must make you look smart and subtle (so absolutely not a lot of talking
and compromising). And it must offer them a way out in which they can
gain face to the public at large. So that even though they take a step
back, publicly it will appear that they have gained. Very common thing
in politics here. And what also helps is if you can offer them a
scapegoat on whom to put all of the blame.

It is something that needs some thinking through. It must offer all what
I said above. But you must also understand that if they call your bluff
you will have to play it hardball. If you back away then, you will never
be taken seriously in at least China (and probably most of East Asia)
anymore. If you play hardball they will most surely never ever talk with
you again. But other parties in this part of the world will not try to
call your bluff and will compromise if they are approached for a violation.

Most Western businessmen fail in this part of the world because they try
the Western approach here. If you negotiate in this part of the world.
adopt their tactics and use it against them. It will make you succeed
and you will gain lots of respect (not spoken out loudly though).

I am unsuccesfull myself many times because even though I have learned
the rules over the years I am a softy. In many cases I do not stand firm
enough. Though I am getting harder and because of that getting more
respect.

Waerth
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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Andre Engels
2008/6/12 Waerth <[hidden email]>:

> Then they weren't impressed enough with the face loosing potential. It
> isn't an easy thing. It must be done in such a way that you are the
> honorable party (and no not western honor, Asian/Chinese honor). And it
> must make you look smart and subtle (so absolutely not a lot of talking
> and compromising). And it must offer them a way out in which they can
> gain face to the public at large. So that even though they take a step
> back, publicly it will appear that they have gained. Very common thing
> in politics here. And what also helps is if you can offer them a
> scapegoat on whom to put all of the blame.

Problem is: How can a relatively small American foundation that is
blocked from China have any credulity in threatening to let China's
largest internet firm loose face?

--
Andre Engels, [hidden email]
ICQ: 6260644 -- Skype: a_engels

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Waerth
Andre Engels wrote:

> 2008/6/12 Waerth <[hidden email]>:
>
>  
>> Then they weren't impressed enough with the face loosing potential. It
>> isn't an easy thing. It must be done in such a way that you are the
>> honorable party (and no not western honor, Asian/Chinese honor). And it
>> must make you look smart and subtle (so absolutely not a lot of talking
>> and compromising). And it must offer them a way out in which they can
>> gain face to the public at large. So that even though they take a step
>> back, publicly it will appear that they have gained. Very common thing
>> in politics here. And what also helps is if you can offer them a
>> scapegoat on whom to put all of the blame.
>>    
>
> Problem is: How can a relatively small American foundation that is
> blocked from China have any credulity in threatening to let China's
> largest internet firm loose face?
>
>  
There are always ways Andre. You just have to look carefully at the
problem. You remember how the Chinese reacted when the riots in Tibet
were all over the world ........ They lost face then, not just because
of the riots but by them being aggressive in their reaction. That is one
of the reasons that they backed off off their aggressive reactions
pretty quickly. The other reason was that they realized that they were
fanning nationalism which could turn ugly on themselves.

I am sure that there are ways. For a start you could start by copying
their content onto Wikipedia. I know it violates our own rules, but you
cannot always be the nicest kid on the block. If they complain,
basically answer that by copying our content they acknowledged that
their own content was for free. Then if they start to make a stink,
present them with the letters that were send to them (I presume the
Foundation tried to contact them) and to which they never reacted. Do
this publicly offcourse.

Furthermore these kind of things are better not discussed on a public
list where the "enemy" can read what you are planning!

Waerth

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Henning Schlottmann
In reply to this post by Titan Deng
Titan Deng wrote:
> We Chinese Wikipedians are now collecting Baidupedia articles which were
> copied from Chinese Wikipedia.

What is all that copyright, lawyer, enforcement, loose face stuff about?

Last time I checked, Wikipedia was about disseminating free knowledge.
Unfortunately the projects are blocked by the Chinese government, so
people of the peoples republic have no access to our content, not the
the parts that are deemed dangerous by the government, not to the other
parts. Now someone takes at least some of the uncontroversial content
and makes it available by copying into Baidu.

Of course it would be nice if they would acknowledge the license and
give proper attribution. But they can't - Wikipedia is banned and they
can't name this source.

But as our mission is to distribute our knowledge, I believe this is the
second best way to distribute our articles, and the best available until
the forces that are open up the Great Firewall.

Ciao Henning [[user:h-stt]]


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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Effe iets anders
I agree that this is not as bad for us as for a random website.
However, yo should think of the fact that the edited versions of the
gfdl text of wikipedia now are no longer free, since there is no
license information. That means a missed chance for free information.
That would make it worth while for *me*.

Kind regards,
Lodewijk

2008/6/12 Henning Schlottmann <[hidden email]>:

> Titan Deng wrote:
>> We Chinese Wikipedians are now collecting Baidupedia articles which were
>> copied from Chinese Wikipedia.
>
> What is all that copyright, lawyer, enforcement, loose face stuff about?
>
> Last time I checked, Wikipedia was about disseminating free knowledge.
> Unfortunately the projects are blocked by the Chinese government, so
> people of the peoples republic have no access to our content, not the
> the parts that are deemed dangerous by the government, not to the other
> parts. Now someone takes at least some of the uncontroversial content
> and makes it available by copying into Baidu.
>
> Of course it would be nice if they would acknowledge the license and
> give proper attribution. But they can't - Wikipedia is banned and they
> can't name this source.
>
> But as our mission is to distribute our knowledge, I believe this is the
> second best way to distribute our articles, and the best available until
> the forces that are open up the Great Firewall.
>
> Ciao Henning [[user:h-stt]]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Henning Schlottmann
2008/6/12 Henning Schlottmann <[hidden email]>:

> Of course it would be nice if they would acknowledge the license and
> give proper attribution. But they can't - Wikipedia is banned and they
> can't name this source.


They don't actually have to name Wikipedia - they do have to name the
original writers and keep the text under GFDL. Doing that would be
sufficient.

Perhaps they're afraid we'll say nice things about them if they do? :-)

Baidu has a US presence, doesn't it? Can they be approached as a first step?


- d.

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Dan Rosenthal
In reply to this post by Henning Schlottmann
On 6/12/08, Henning Schlottmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Titan Deng wrote:
> > We Chinese Wikipedians are now collecting Baidupedia articles which were
> > copied from Chinese Wikipedia.
>
> What is all that copyright, lawyer, enforcement, loose face stuff about?
>
> Last time I checked, Wikipedia was about disseminating free knowledge.
> Unfortunately the projects are blocked by the Chinese government, so
> people of the peoples republic have no access to our content, not the
> the parts that are deemed dangerous by the government, not to the other
> parts. Now someone takes at least some of the uncontroversial content
> and makes it available by copying into Baidu.
>
> Of course it would be nice if they would acknowledge the license and
> give proper attribution. But they can't - Wikipedia is banned and they
> can't name this source.
>
> But as our mission is to distribute our knowledge, I believe this is the
> second best way to distribute our articles, and the best available until
> the forces that are open up the Great Firewall.
>
> Ciao Henning [[user:h-stt]]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


Free knowledge does not mean that the information itself is unrestricted,
nor does it mean that the authors who make information free waive all of
their rights. We fundamentally require attribution to our authors under our
license. If Baidupedia is not respecting that, and are not in
compliance with the other terms of the GFDL, then it is very difficult to
say that they are working for the freedom of knowledge. Copyright
infringement != free knowledge. It == theft. By enforcing that other
websites respect the terms of the licenses our works are published under, we
are actually furthering free knowledge by giving our contributors some
assurances that their work will be protected and not abused. I know that I,
for one, would have second thoughts about some of my contributions if I knew
that it would be taken by another person and used under their name. That's
not free dissemination, its theft.

-Dan

--
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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

David Goodman
do they copy as a mirror would, and then add articles of their own, or
do they use the text as part of articles with additions & subtractions
of their own?

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Dan Rosenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/12/08, Henning Schlottmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Titan Deng wrote:
>> > We Chinese Wikipedians are now collecting Baidupedia articles which were
>> > copied from Chinese Wikipedia.
>>
>> What is all that copyright, lawyer, enforcement, loose face stuff about?
>>
>> Last time I checked, Wikipedia was about disseminating free knowledge.
>> Unfortunately the projects are blocked by the Chinese government, so
>> people of the peoples republic have no access to our content, not the
>> the parts that are deemed dangerous by the government, not to the other
>> parts. Now someone takes at least some of the uncontroversial content
>> and makes it available by copying into Baidu.
>>
>> Of course it would be nice if they would acknowledge the license and
>> give proper attribution. But they can't - Wikipedia is banned and they
>> can't name this source.
>>
>> But as our mission is to distribute our knowledge, I believe this is the
>> second best way to distribute our articles, and the best available until
>> the forces that are open up the Great Firewall.
>>
>> Ciao Henning [[user:h-stt]]
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
>
> Free knowledge does not mean that the information itself is unrestricted,
> nor does it mean that the authors who make information free waive all of
> their rights. We fundamentally require attribution to our authors under our
> license. If Baidupedia is not respecting that, and are not in
> compliance with the other terms of the GFDL, then it is very difficult to
> say that they are working for the freedom of knowledge. Copyright
> infringement != free knowledge. It == theft. By enforcing that other
> websites respect the terms of the licenses our works are published under, we
> are actually furthering free knowledge by giving our contributors some
> assurances that their work will be protected and not abused. I know that I,
> for one, would have second thoughts about some of my contributions if I knew
> that it would be taken by another person and used under their name. That's
> not free dissemination, its theft.
>
> -Dan
>
> --
> Dan Rosenthal
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Dan Rosenthal
As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), they substantially use our
content, but then do not include the GFDL or any links to it, and no
attribution.

On 6/12/08, David Goodman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> do they copy as a mirror would, and then add articles of their own, or
> do they use the text as part of articles with additions & subtractions
> of their own?
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Dan Rosenthal <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > On 6/12/08, Henning Schlottmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Titan Deng wrote:
> >> > We Chinese Wikipedians are now collecting Baidupedia articles which
> were
> >> > copied from Chinese Wikipedia.
> >>
> >> What is all that copyright, lawyer, enforcement, loose face stuff about?
> >>
> >> Last time I checked, Wikipedia was about disseminating free knowledge.
> >> Unfortunately the projects are blocked by the Chinese government, so
> >> people of the peoples republic have no access to our content, not the
> >> the parts that are deemed dangerous by the government, not to the other
> >> parts. Now someone takes at least some of the uncontroversial content
> >> and makes it available by copying into Baidu.
> >>
> >> Of course it would be nice if they would acknowledge the license and
> >> give proper attribution. But they can't - Wikipedia is banned and they
> >> can't name this source.
> >>
> >> But as our mission is to distribute our knowledge, I believe this is the
> >> second best way to distribute our articles, and the best available until
> >> the forces that are open up the Great Firewall.
> >>
> >> Ciao Henning [[user:h-stt]]
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >
> >
> > Free knowledge does not mean that the information itself is unrestricted,
> > nor does it mean that the authors who make information free waive all of
> > their rights. We fundamentally require attribution to our authors under
> our
> > license. If Baidupedia is not respecting that, and are not in
> > compliance with the other terms of the GFDL, then it is very difficult to
> > say that they are working for the freedom of knowledge. Copyright
> > infringement != free knowledge. It == theft. By enforcing that other
> > websites respect the terms of the licenses our works are published under,
> we
> > are actually furthering free knowledge by giving our contributors some
> > assurances that their work will be protected and not abused. I know that
> I,
> > for one, would have second thoughts about some of my contributions if I
> knew
> > that it would be taken by another person and used under their name.
> That's
> > not free dissemination, its theft.
> >
> > -Dan
> >
> > --
> > Dan Rosenthal
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Dan Rosenthal
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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

geni
2008/6/12 Dan Rosenthal <[hidden email]>:
> As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), they substantially use our
> content, but then do not include the GFDL or any links to it, and no
> attribution.
>


They use our content at least some stuff they produced themselves and
probably a fair amount of other people's (song lyrics and the like).

--
geni

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Magnus Manske-2
In reply to this post by Waerth
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Waerth <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Then they weren't impressed enough with the face loosing potential. It
> isn't an easy thing. It must be done in such a way that you are the
> honorable party (and no not western honor, Asian/Chinese honor). And it
> must make you look smart and subtle (so absolutely not a lot of talking
> and compromising). And it must offer them a way out in which they can
> gain face to the public at large. So that even though they take a step
> back, publicly it will appear that they have gained. Very common thing
> in politics here. And what also helps is if you can offer them a
> scapegoat on whom to put all of the blame.

That leaves only a Haiku:

When copying texts
Honor people's rights
Stick to the license

Sorry.

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Dan Rosenthal-2
Fixed to make it a haiku (5-7-5)

When copying texts
You must honor people's rights
Stick to the license.

-dan


On 6/12/08, Magnus Manske <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Waerth <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Then they weren't impressed enough with the face loosing potential. It
> > isn't an easy thing. It must be done in such a way that you are the
> > honorable party (and no not western honor, Asian/Chinese honor). And it
> > must make you look smart and subtle (so absolutely not a lot of talking
> > and compromising). And it must offer them a way out in which they can
> > gain face to the public at large. So that even though they take a step
> > back, publicly it will appear that they have gained. Very common thing
> > in politics here. And what also helps is if you can offer them a
> > scapegoat on whom to put all of the blame.
>
> That leaves only a Haiku:
>
> When copying texts
> Honor people's rights
> Stick to the license
>
> Sorry.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Dan Rosenthal
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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Magnus Manske-2
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Dan Rosenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Fixed to make it a haiku (5-7-5)
>
> When copying texts
> You must honor people's rights
> Stick to the license.

Thanks, I can't count anymore ;-(

Magnus

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Robert Stojnic-2
In reply to this post by Dan Rosenthal
Dan Rosenthal wrote:

>On 6/12/08, Henning Schlottmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Last time I checked, Wikipedia was about disseminating free knowledge.
>>Unfortunately the projects are blocked by the Chinese government, so
>>people of the peoples republic have no access to our content, not the
>>the parts that are deemed dangerous by the government, not to the other
>>parts. Now someone takes at least some of the uncontroversial content
>>and makes it available by copying into Baidu.
>>    
>>
>
>their rights. We fundamentally require attribution to our authors under our
>license. If Baidupedia is not respecting that, and are not in
>compliance with the other terms of the GFDL, then it is very difficult to
>say that they are working for the freedom of knowledge. Copyright
>infringement != free knowledge. It == theft. By enforcing that other
>  
>

I couldn't agree more with Henning comment above! This is why 99% of
people are into the project, I believe.

Dan, your comment about infringement as theft is relevant only for
western societies. AFAIK, in China, there is a booming internet market,
that is both aggressive and in search for its own identity and market
share. Copyright is seen as one of those bad western thingies, that west
nicely uses to drain China even more (lets not forget - the reason why
you can buy stuff so cheaply in US is that some Chinese guy is working
his butt off). So, it is controversial who steals what and from whom. My
personal POV is that we steal from China far much more than they manage
to steal from us. I personally think we should respect the specificities
of the Chinese situation, and help create free knowledge and build
cooperation, instead of trying to enforce western laws.

Robert


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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Dan Rosenthal
I have trouble ascribing to the position that because China shares different
values from the rest of the world, it's ok for them to steal other people's
content, and to discourage contributors all over the world who want their
works to be attributed. Given that China is a Berne convention signatory,
it's not unreasonable to assume that the country desires to be a part of the
world intellectual property community. If they want to be part of that
group, they need to play by the rules. The WMF has the entire rest of the
world to consider, not just China, and it's a rest of the world that values
the sanctity of attribution.

-Dan


On 6/12/08, Robert Stojnic <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Dan Rosenthal wrote:
>
> >On 6/12/08, Henning Schlottmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Last time I checked, Wikipedia was about disseminating free knowledge.
> >>Unfortunately the projects are blocked by the Chinese government, so
> >>people of the peoples republic have no access to our content, not the
> >>the parts that are deemed dangerous by the government, not to the other
> >>parts. Now someone takes at least some of the uncontroversial content
> >>and makes it available by copying into Baidu.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >their rights. We fundamentally require attribution to our authors under
> our
> >license. If Baidupedia is not respecting that, and are not in
> >compliance with the other terms of the GFDL, then it is very difficult to
> >say that they are working for the freedom of knowledge. Copyright
> >infringement != free knowledge. It == theft. By enforcing that other
> >
> >
>
> I couldn't agree more with Henning comment above! This is why 99% of
> people are into the project, I believe.
>
> Dan, your comment about infringement as theft is relevant only for
> western societies. AFAIK, in China, there is a booming internet market,
> that is both aggressive and in search for its own identity and market
> share. Copyright is seen as one of those bad western thingies, that west
> nicely uses to drain China even more (lets not forget - the reason why
> you can buy stuff so cheaply in US is that some Chinese guy is working
> his butt off). So, it is controversial who steals what and from whom. My
> personal POV is that we steal from China far much more than they manage
> to steal from us. I personally think we should respect the specificities
> of the Chinese situation, and help create free knowledge and build
> cooperation, instead of trying to enforce western laws.
>
> Robert
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Dan Rosenthal
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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Bryan Tong Minh
In reply to this post by Robert Stojnic-2
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Robert Stojnic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...] My
> personal POV is that we steal from China far much more than they manage
> to steal from us.
> [...]

Even though that is probably true, stealing from somebody because he
stole from you does not exactly sound like a good idea.

Bryan

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Re: Baidupedia copyvio collections

Robert Stojnic-2
Bryan Tong Minh wrote:

>On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Robert Stojnic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>[...] My
>>personal POV is that we steal from China far much more than they manage
>>to steal from us.
>>[...]
>>    
>>
>
>Even though that is probably true, stealing from somebody because he
>stole from you does not exactly sound like a good idea.
>  
>

I agree, the current situation is not exactly great, cooperation to
mutual benefit is far better, but enforcing the western-viewpoint at any
cost is by far the worst ( which is what seems to be pushed by some
people on this mailing list ).

Robert



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