Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

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Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

theo10011
Hi

There seems to be a situation developing at Italian Wikipedia related to a
local law that would infringe neutrality on Wikipedia. The discussions even
mention a possible blackout/lockdown in reaction.

Is anyone aware of this situation? Is it likely to have any effect on other
projects and outside communities? Is WMF aware since it is mentioned in the
discussion as well.

The announcement that was linked to on IRC:
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Vituzzu/comunicato/en

A discussion which might be relevant:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bar/Discussioni/Comma_29_e_Wikipedia


Theo
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Thomas Morton
I think this is a prime opportunity to point out to those concerned:
Wikipedia is hosted in the US :) so no need to worry!

Tom
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Tomasz Ganicz
2011/10/4 Thomas Morton <[hidden email]>:
> I think this is a prime opportunity to point out to those concerned:
> Wikipedia is hosted in the US :) so no need to worry!
>

Are you sure? Contributors lives mainly in Italy, so they have to
follow Italian law.



--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Tanvir Rahman
In reply to this post by Thomas Morton
>
> I think this is a prime opportunity to point out to those concerned:
> Wikipedia is hosted in the US :) so no need to worry!
>

They can block Italian Wikipedia in Italy, right? If so, it is a concern.

--
Tanvir Rahman
Wikitanvir on Wikimedia
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Tomasz Ganicz
2011/10/4 Tanvir Rahman <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> I think this is a prime opportunity to point out to those concerned:
>> Wikipedia is hosted in the US :) so no need to worry!
>>
>
> They can block Italian Wikipedia in Italy, right? If so, it is a concern.
>

The other issue is, that if you are italian citizen and have admin
account anyone at any moment can ask you to change/delete content on
the basis on this new law, and if you fail to do it within 48 hrs.you
are commiting a kind of crime.



--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Thomas Morton
In reply to this post by Tomasz Ganicz
On 4 October 2011 13:56, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2011/10/4 Thomas Morton <[hidden email]>:
> > I think this is a prime opportunity to point out to those concerned:
> > Wikipedia is hosted in the US :) so no need to worry!
> >
>
> Are you sure? Contributors lives mainly in Italy, so they have to
> follow Italian law.
>
>
>
Unless I have mistaken the law (I admit my Italian is shaky at best, and my
tame Italian is in a mood with me)  this applies to websites, not people.

There does not seem to be any provision under the law to sue or otherwise
harass people that add stuff the company/individual etc. objects to.

I could be wrong; but this looks a lot like a case of getting an email
saying "make this change at once, under Italian law XXX" and us responding
"Actually, no, sorry - but can we work this out via discussion?"
Tom
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Ilario Valdelli
In reply to this post by Tomasz Ganicz
An official statement will be published in Foundation-l.

The question is that the server are in USA, but for the penal law it's
sufficient to edit from the Italian country.

I am in a special situation because I live in Switzerland and I
publish in USA servers, but for the main numbers of Italian editors
the question is not so easy.

Ilario

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2011/10/4 Thomas Morton <[hidden email]>:
>> I think this is a prime opportunity to point out to those concerned:
>> Wikipedia is hosted in the US :) so no need to worry!
>>
>
> Are you sure? Contributors lives mainly in Italy, so they have to
> follow Italian law.
>
>
>
> --
> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Risker
In reply to this post by Tanvir Rahman
On 4 October 2011 08:57, Tanvir Rahman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >
> > I think this is a prime opportunity to point out to those concerned:
> > Wikipedia is hosted in the US :) so no need to worry!
> >
>
> They can block Italian Wikipedia in Italy, right? If so, it is a concern.
>
>

Perhaps someone who can understand Italian well might be able to provide a
brief summary of the situation to those of us who, sadly, depend on google
translate?  I am unclear what the "new" law says that is leading
Italian-speaking Wikipedians to consider a blackout of the Italian
Wikipedia.

Risker
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Thomas Morton
In reply to this post by Ilario Valdelli
On 4 October 2011 14:03, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

> An official statement will be published in Foundation-l.
>
> The question is that the server are in USA, but for the penal law it's
> sufficient to edit from the Italian country.
>
> I am in a special situation because I live in Switzerland and I
> publish in USA servers, but for the main numbers of Italian editors
> the question is not so easy.


It's an interesting (and very idiotic) new law for sure.

From my latter reading it quite clear distinguishes that the  *owner* or
*webmaster* is liable.

As with a lot of laws/internet stuff it kind of falls apart when faced with
something like a Wiki. But I doubt this is worth being too concerned about.

Campaign against it certainly, point out how problematic it becomes. But
don't lose sleep :)

Tom
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by theo10011
A couple of English articles on the new law:
<https://www.pcworld.com/article/240840/italian_internet_activists_protest_proposed_law.html>
<http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=852&doc_id=234086>

Also, I'm not involved in the strike, but the WMF has been somehow
informed by the organizers.

Nemo

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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Mathias Schindler-2
In reply to this post by Tomasz Ganicz
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 14:56, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 2011/10/4 Thomas Morton <[hidden email]>:
>> I think this is a prime opportunity to point out to those concerned:
>> Wikipedia is hosted in the US :) so no need to worry!
>>
>
> Are you sure? Contributors lives mainly in Italy, so they have to
> follow Italian law.

Every individual contributor should abide by the laws of the country
he lives, operates or has property in.

Mathias

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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

theo10011
For those not following, Italian Wikipedia went into lockdown a while ago.
All content and pages direct to the notice.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Comunicato_4_ottobre_2011

Regards
Theo


On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Mathias Schindler <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 14:56, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > 2011/10/4 Thomas Morton <[hidden email]>:
> >> I think this is a prime opportunity to point out to those concerned:
> >> Wikipedia is hosted in the US :) so no need to worry!
> >>
> >
> > Are you sure? Contributors lives mainly in Italy, so they have to
> > follow Italian law.
>
> Every individual contributor should abide by the laws of the country
> he lives, operates or has property in.
>
> Mathias
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Nathan Awrich
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Theo10011 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> For those not following, Italian Wikipedia went into lockdown a while ago.
> All content and pages direct to the notice.
>
> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Comunicato_4_ottobre_2011
>
> Regards
> Theo
>
>


Any news coverage?

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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

theo10011
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Theo10011 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > For those not following, Italian Wikipedia went into lockdown a while
> ago.
> > All content and pages direct to the notice.
> >
> > http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Comunicato_4_ottobre_2011
> >
> > Regards
> > Theo
> >
> >
>
>
> Any news coverage?
>

Yes, from what I heard it is getting a lot of local coverage.

http://www.repubblica.it/politica/2011/10/04/news/wikipedia_in_bianco_contro_le_intercettazioni-22703312/?ref=HREC1-1

http://www.corriere.it/politica/11_ottobre_04/wikipedia-italia-bavaglio_b4a6c60a-eeb7-11e0-bc1a-2283ac81b740.shtml

Only a matter of time, till it gets international coverage.

Regards
Theo
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Milos Rancic-2
One in English:
http://www.businessinsider.com/italy-wikipedia-wiretapping-2011-10

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 21:57, Theo10011 <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Theo10011 <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > For those not following, Italian Wikipedia went into lockdown a while
>> ago.
>> > All content and pages direct to the notice.
>> >
>> > http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Comunicato_4_ottobre_2011
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Theo
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Any news coverage?
>>
>
> Yes, from what I heard it is getting a lot of local coverage.
>
> http://www.repubblica.it/politica/2011/10/04/news/wikipedia_in_bianco_contro_le_intercettazioni-22703312/?ref=HREC1-1
>
> http://www.corriere.it/politica/11_ottobre_04/wikipedia-italia-bavaglio_b4a6c60a-eeb7-11e0-bc1a-2283ac81b740.shtml
>
> Only a matter of time, till it gets international coverage.
>
> Regards
> Theo
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

John Mark Vandenberg
In reply to this post by theo10011
The redirect is not working properly on the secure website.

Go to
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/wiki/Wikipedia:Comunicato_4_ottobre_2011

and then hit random page

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/wiki/Speciale:PaginaCasuale

that takes the reader to:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Comunicato_4_ottobre_2011

--
John Vandenberg

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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Teun Spaans
In reply to this post by theo10011
Isn't this premature? As I understand, the law is still being discussed, not
yet in affect.

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 9:37 PM, Theo10011 <[hidden email]> wrote:

> For those not following, Italian Wikipedia went into lockdown a while ago.
> All content and pages direct to the notice.
>
> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Comunicato_4_ottobre_2011
>
> Regards
> Theo
>
>
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Nathan Awrich
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:15 PM, teun spaans <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Isn't this premature? As I understand, the law is still being discussed, not
> yet in affect.
>

It's a protest, they are hoping to influence whether the law is passed or not.

~Nathan

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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Jalo
In reply to this post by Teun Spaans
>
> Isn't this premature? As I understand, the law is still being discussed,
> not
>
yet in affect.
>

If the law passes, it'll be too late
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Re: Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

Mathias Schindler-2
In reply to this post by Nathan Awrich
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 22:19, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:15 PM, teun spaans <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Isn't this premature? As I understand, the law is still being discussed, not
>> yet in affect.
>>
>
> It's a protest, they are hoping to influence whether the law is passed or not.

How many inches are we away from keeping a list of politicians and
parties we endorse in national, state and regional elections?

Mathias

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