Blind move

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Blind move

Artur Fijałkowski
I see, that someone (user:LeonardoG) is making great job moving images
from pt.wiki to Commons...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=LeonardoG


Yeah  ... great, but:

* He doesn't categorise it
* He doesn't put them into galleries
* He doesn't change stupid filenames to normal (eg. DSC_XXXXXX.JPG)
* He moves copyvios from pt.wiki (I've found book cover, DVD screen,
CD Audio with cover, Hagrid's figurine, image of character from
SouthPark ...)

So it's not great at all...

So my question is:

what to do with such users ?

AJF/WarX
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Re: Blind move

Bryan Tong Minh
I think threatening to delete all uploads is not a good option. I
don't think you are actually  even allowed to delete _all_ of
somebody's contributions based on the fact that the majority of them
is a copyvio. I think talking is the best option. If he doesnt react
or continues, a short ban might be on the right place in my opinion,
so that we have the time to clean up the mess.

Bryan

On 12/4/06, Artur Fijałkowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I see, that someone (user:LeonardoG) is making great job moving images
> from pt.wiki to Commons...
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=LeonardoG
>
>
> Yeah  ... great, but:
>
> * He doesn't categorise it
> * He doesn't put them into galleries
> * He doesn't change stupid filenames to normal (eg. DSC_XXXXXX.JPG)
> * He moves copyvios from pt.wiki (I've found book cover, DVD screen,
> CD Audio with cover, Hagrid's figurine, image of character from
> SouthPark ...)
>
> So it's not great at all...
>
> So my question is:
>
> what to do with such users ?
>
> AJF/WarX
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
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Re: Blind move

Gregory Maxwell
On 12/4/06, Bryan Tong Minh <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think threatening to delete all uploads is not a good option. I
> don't think you are actually  even allowed to delete _all_ of
> somebody's contributions based on the fact that the majority of them
> is a copyvio.

Sure we are, if we as a community choose to do so. It's our ball, we
make the rules.

> I think talking is the best option. If he doesnt react
> or continues, a short ban might be on the right place in my opinion,
> so that we have the time to clean up the mess.

I agree that talking is the best option. Ideally we should get him to
clean it up himself.  If he will not, then we must weigh the options.

If his images are too suspect it may be best to delete them all, or
perhaps it will not be. That is for the community to decide.  After
some more thought and investigation I might support such a decision
myself.

After seeing images such as
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Joydivision_setembro1978.jpg,
and http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Gameboycolor.gif I must
admit that I'm not to inclined to trust anything coming in via that
path.

There are also a *lot* of images which are web-thumbnail resolution
with strange borders or bevels which look suspect.... and no shortage
of logos http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Foobar.png
incorrectly labled as GFDL... and .. and .. and..
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Re: Blind move

Brianna Laugher
In reply to this post by Artur Fijałkowski
On 05/12/06, Artur Fijałkowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I see, that someone (user:LeonardoG) is making great job moving images
> from pt.wiki to Commons...
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=LeonardoG
>
>
> Yeah  ... great, but:
>
> * He doesn't categorise it
> * He doesn't put them into galleries
> * He doesn't change stupid filenames to normal (eg. DSC_XXXXXX.JPG)
> * He moves copyvios from pt.wiki (I've found book cover, DVD screen,
> CD Audio with cover, Hagrid's figurine, image of character from
> SouthPark ...)
>
> So it's not great at all...
>
> So my question is:
>
> what to do with such users ?

If they have already done significant damage, write them a strongly
worded personal note as a last warning asking them to stop.
If they continue to upload without responding, block them (short block
to get their attention).
Request that they understand our rules and clean up their existing
mess before doing any more uploads.
Once the block expires, if they ignore this and continue to upload,
block them again (this time a bit longer).


Continue until stream of copyvios ceases (user learns, or gives up due
to lengths of blocks).

We should feel confident in blocking users who (maybe inadvertently)
cause disruption like this.

regards,
Brianna
user:pfctdayelise
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Re: Blind move

Yuval Y
The problem is that he's "using Pywikipediabot to upload many files to commons". I wrote him (in english, though) not to use this bot.
We have Polski speakers administrators in commons, I guess we can explain him that he sould understand what exactly he's doing.
 
Best regards, Yuval Y
user:Yuval Y

 
On 12/5/06, Brianna Laugher <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 05/12/06, Artur Fijałkowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I see, that someone (user:LeonardoG) is making great job moving images
> from pt.wiki to Commons...
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=LeonardoG
>
>
> Yeah  ... great, but:
>
> * He doesn't categorise it
> * He doesn't put them into galleries
> * He doesn't change stupid filenames to normal (eg. DSC_XXXXXX.JPG)
> * He moves copyvios from pt.wiki (I've found book cover, DVD screen,
> CD Audio with cover, Hagrid's figurine, image of character from
> SouthPark ...)
>
> So it's not great at all...
>
> So my question is:
>
> what to do with such users ?

If they have already done significant damage, write them a strongly
worded personal note as a last warning asking them to stop.
If they continue to upload without responding, block them (short block
to get their attention).
Request that they understand our rules and clean up their existing
mess before doing any more uploads.
Once the block expires, if they ignore this and continue to upload,
block them again (this time a bit longer).


Continue until stream of copyvios ceases (user learns, or gives up due
to lengths of blocks).

We should feel confident in blocking users who (maybe inadvertently)
cause disruption like this.

regards,
Brianna
user:pfctdayelise
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Re: Blind move

Magnus Manske-2
In reply to this post by Artur Fijałkowski
On 12/4/06, Artur Fijałkowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So my question is:
>
> what to do with such users ?

Make him use CommonsHelper [1] to move images from existing wikipedia
instead. Make sure he doesn't touch anything that says "fair use",
though ;-)

Magnus

[1] http://tools.wikimedia.de/~magnus/commonshelper.php
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Re: Blind move

Bence Damokos
"using <a title="meta:Using_the_python_wikipediabot" href="http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Using_the_python_wikipediabot" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Pywikipediabot to upload many files to commons"
He's lucky it works :)

Anyway, I think commonshelper should somehow be able to copy the images itself (I know the toolserver doesn't have full replication), just dreaming...

Bence

On 12/5/06, Magnus Manske <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 12/4/06, Artur Fijałkowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So my question is:
>
> what to do with such users ?

Make him use CommonsHelper [1] to move images from existing wikipedia
instead. Make sure he doesn't touch anything that says "fair use",
though ;-)

Magnus

[1] http://tools.wikimedia.de/~magnus/commonshelper.php
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Re: Blind move

Artur Fijałkowski
The main problem with moving images using bot is it's blindness...

Mentioned user copied some copyvios from pt.wiki licensed as CC-BY-SA
because he didn't watch those images, but probably simple move images
using linked to license template :(

And this thing I want you to remember:

Never, never, never do this!

We had 2-3 months ago same problem with move of PD images from fr.wiki
- wrong PD template (deprecated {{PD}}), no categories, galleries,
lots of duplicates of images that were already on commons with other
names, overwriting existing images with unrelated content with same
name  ...

Bot is good and nice toy, but it's very dangerous in unexperienced hands...

AJF/WarX
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Re: Blind move

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
Artur Fijałkowski wrote:

> The main problem with moving images using bot is it's blindness...
>
> Mentioned user copied some copyvios from pt.wiki licensed as CC-BY-SA
> because he didn't watch those images, but probably simple move images
> using linked to license template :(
>
> And this thing I want you to remember:
>
> Never, never, never do this!
>
> We had 2-3 months ago same problem with move of PD images from fr.wiki
> - wrong PD template (deprecated {{PD}}), no categories, galleries,
> lots of duplicates of images that were already on commons with other
> names, overwriting existing images with unrelated content with same
> name  ...
>
> Bot is good and nice toy, but it's very dangerous in unexperienced hands...
>
That's a good point: did they get approval to use the bot? If not, why
weren't they blocked for running an unauthorised bot?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP


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Re: Blind move

Bence Damokos
Hi!
Yeah using a bot is a blind thing, as you don't see the image itself, but isn't the goal to have all free images in one place? I know, that a cleanup is necessary of the "free" images, and that having an image hash would speed up the process of locating duplicates (even duplicates maybe of once deleted images).

I believe though that trusted users should be given an opportunity to mass upload files to commons from local wikis. This would be done, by "verifying" an image on the local wiki by placing a template on it and also adding a comment in an other language different from that of the wiki itself if possible, and than have a bot (or any other automated solution) upload the images tagged this way to commons (first checking if the template was put on by a trusted user, if this is too server intensive, than just have the admin protect the original image [I believe the protection status could be checked more easily, than the history]), and after a batch it would notify admins (eg. on the CommonsTicker) which images can be deleted, and also references to which need to be replaced first (the tagging template should include optional metadate as "new filename", "category", "license" (if different on local wiki, than on commons), and such.

Anyway, the other idea I have for the Commonshelper, that would need a configuration change on commons:
1. Allow uploads via URL, but only accept wikipedia / wikimedia domains
2. Have the commonshelper prefill the url box as well as the summary box of the upload form
3. and an extra for local admins: a delete link for the original image (maybe with the possibility, that a bot running on the toolserver changes the references to the old name on the local wiki, to the commons version [is this something toolserver can actually do?])

Regards,
Bence Damokos


On 12/5/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <[hidden email]> wrote:
Artur Fijałkowski wrote:

> The main problem with moving images using bot is it's blindness...
>
> Mentioned user copied some copyvios from pt.wiki licensed as CC-BY-SA
> because he didn't watch those images, but probably simple move images
> using linked to license template :(
>
> And this thing I want you to remember:
>
> Never, never, never do this!
>
> We had 2-3 months ago same problem with move of PD images from fr.wiki
> - wrong PD template (deprecated {{PD}}), no categories, galleries,
> lots of duplicates of images that were already on commons with other
> names, overwriting existing images with unrelated content with same
> name  ...
>
> Bot is good and nice toy, but it's very dangerous in unexperienced hands...
>

That's a good point: did they get approval to use the bot? If not, why
weren't they blocked for running an unauthorised bot?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP



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Re: Blind move

Andre Engels
2006/12/5, Bence Damokos <[hidden email]>:
Hi!
Yeah using a bot is a blind thing, as you don't see the image itself, but isn't the goal to have all free images in one place?

Not necessarily. In my opinion Commons is there as a repository of *really free*  *useful* images. Images should be findable - this means having a good description, having a category or being on a gallery page. Preferably 2 or 3 of those. Any picture that does not have those and also does not have a *very* descriptive filename is increasing the file count of Commons, but not its usefulness to the projects, which in my opinion is the first thing that is of importance.




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