Board officers elected; Anthere is Chair!

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Re: Board officers elected; Anthere is Chair!

David Gerard-2
On 01/11/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 11/1/06, Sam Korn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Jimbo's position with regard to en.wp ArbCom is as Jimbo, not as
> > Chairman of the WMF.  I can't see how this would alter that situation
> > in the slightest.

> A shift in power. With the change in board positions the last
> justification for his past role is gone. Arbcom's power comes from the
> community not from jimbo.


This is, of course, precisely backwards. The ArbCom is an embodiment
of Jimbo's power, that's where it comes from. Jimbo has power because
that's how we do it, i.e. the community lets him. (Note that the
community frequently tells Jimbo to get knotted.)


> You know this. Thus the community should as
> much as posible be the final abitor of arbcoms membership.


I think Jimbo agrees, but doesn't try to rewrite history to argue the point.


- d.
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Re: Board officers elected; Anthere is Chair!

Erik Moeller-4
In reply to this post by James Hare
On 11/1/06, James Hare <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It's like how you have some sort of de facto leadership over Wikinews, right
> Erik?

Not quite. I've never claimed or used any special authority on WN (or
en.wn specifically, which is the only one where I could remotely get
away with it), and I would have been whacked from above and below if I
had. ;-)
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Peace & Love,
Erik

Member, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees

DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise stated, all views or opinions expressed
in this message are solely my own and do not represent an official
position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.
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Re: Board officers elected; Anthere is Chair!

James Hare
I didn't mean Special Power, I meant being recognized as the guy who is a
Bureaucrat and has all the cool ideas.

On 11/1/06, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 11/1/06, James Hare <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > It's like how you have some sort of de facto leadership over Wikinews,
> right
> > Erik?
>
> Not quite. I've never claimed or used any special authority on WN (or
> en.wn specifically, which is the only one where I could remotely get
> away with it), and I would have been whacked from above and below if I
> had. ;-)
> --
> Peace & Love,
> Erik
>
> Member, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
>
> DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise stated, all views or opinions expressed
> in this message are solely my own and do not represent an official
> position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Board officers elected; Anthere is Chair!

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
On 01/11/06, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 11/1/06, James Hare <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > It's like how you have some sort of de facto leadership over Wikinews, right
> > Erik?

> Not quite. I've never claimed or used any special authority on WN (or
> en.wn specifically, which is the only one where I could remotely get
> away with it), and I would have been whacked from above and below if I
> had. ;-)


The history as I understand it, please correct as needed:

en:wp was the first Wikipedia and is by far the largest and most
problematic. (I find it a perenially fascinating problem to get press
to realise Wikimedia does anything else, or even that there is a
Wikipedia in their own language.) As founder, Jimbo had and has a role
as the person ultimately empowered to say "um, no, you're being a
dick; stop it." He really hates using this power and is very unsure of
how to, so doesn't a whole lot.

In late 2003/early 2004, Jimbo and James Forrester set up the
Arbitration Committee to solve the problem that Jimbo doesn't scale.
So twelve or so foolish volunteers have the job of bouncer, and throw
out really sorely problematic patrons of en:wp. (Though in the last
year or so, the admins have gotten reasonably skilled at discerning
the utterly impossible and kicking them out by popular acclaim - a
"community ban", on the principle that if you can't get *one* of the
1000+ en:wp admins to unban you, you just might be hopelessly at odds
with the way en:wp works.)

Jimbo's power is to be the Constitutional Monarch, but his power works
as far as and as long as the community - the volunteers who do
everything, after all - consider it does. So far the arrangement works
pretty well. IMO it produces better results than a pure community
approach does, because that results in utter jawdropping idiocy like
RFCs against people for deleting copyright-violating userboxes without
proper community consultation (whatever that is when they're breaking
the law).


- d.
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Re: Board officers elected; Anthere is Chair!

geni
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
On 11/1/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This is, of course, precisely backwards. The ArbCom is an embodiment
> of Jimbo's power, that's where it comes from. Jimbo has power because
> that's how we do it, i.e. the community lets him. (Note that the
> community frequently tells Jimbo to get knotted.)

That was the case that isn't the case any more.

he appearance of "community blocks" shows that at least the admin
community regards its self as holding powers that were once
exclusively Jimbo's and without any obvious link back to Jimbo.
Arbcom's power no longer comes from "Jimbo has said that we can do
this" but from "the community said we can do this".

That isn't to say that there is no role for Jimbo (I can't at short
notice come up with a replacement system for appointing backup arbcom
members that doesn't have an unacceptably high bureaucratic overhead)
but the election should be the preserve of the community unless the
board formally decides to intervene (and if they felt the need to I
think we would have a very very serious problem).



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Re: Board officers elected; Anthere is Chair!

oscar-11
this has absolutely nothing to do anymore with the current thread, and i
strongly support erik moellers kind request to please take this discussion
off this list unto the discussionlist of the english wikipedia.
thank you.

On 11/1/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 11/1/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > This is, of course, precisely backwards. The ArbCom is an embodiment
> > of Jimbo's power, that's where it comes from. Jimbo has power because
> > that's how we do it, i.e. the community lets him. (Note that the
> > community frequently tells Jimbo to get knotted.)
>
> That was the case that isn't the case any more.
>
> he appearance of "community blocks" shows that at least the admin
> community regards its self as holding powers that were once
> exclusively Jimbo's and without any obvious link back to Jimbo.
> Arbcom's power no longer comes from "Jimbo has said that we can do
> this" but from "the community said we can do this".
>
> That isn't to say that there is no role for Jimbo (I can't at short
> notice come up with a replacement system for appointing backup arbcom
> members that doesn't have an unacceptably high bureaucratic overhead)
> but the election should be the preserve of the community unless the
> board formally decides to intervene (and if they felt the need to I
> think we would have a very very serious problem).
>
>
>
> --
> geni
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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