Bug in user prefereces

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Bug in user prefereces

Arne 'Timwi' Heizmann

Hi,

I just tried to fix my timezone settings now that daylight savings is over.

I get the following message:

        Your password is invalid or too short. It must have at least 1
        character and be different from your username.

If the password boxes are empty, the system should not assume that I was
trying to change my password.

Timwi


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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Mormegil
Hi!

2008/11/5 Timwi <[hidden email]>:
> I get the following message:
>
>        Your password is invalid or too short. It must have at least 1
>        character and be different from your username.
>
> If the password boxes are empty, the system should not assume that I was
> trying to change my password.

If the password boxes are really empty, the system assumes that.
However, if you use some password-remembering browser (such as
Firefox), it "helpfully" pre-fills the "current password" box, leading
to this. At least, that is what happened to me. Be sure to manually
clear the "old password" editbox before changing other preferences,
and everything should work fine.

-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]

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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Aryeh Gregor
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Petr Kadlec <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If the password boxes are really empty, the system assumes that.
> However, if you use some password-remembering browser (such as
> Firefox), it "helpfully" pre-fills the "current password" box, leading
> to this. At least, that is what happened to me. Be sure to manually
> clear the "old password" editbox before changing other preferences,
> and everything should work fine.

That still seems like a bug on our part.  The extra (and unintuitive)
step shouldn't be necessary.

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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Mormegil
2008/11/5 Aryeh Gregor <[hidden email]>:

> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Petr Kadlec <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> If the password boxes are really empty, the system assumes that.
>> However, if you use some password-remembering browser (such as
>> Firefox), it "helpfully" pre-fills the "current password" box, leading
>> to this. At least, that is what happened to me. Be sure to manually
>> clear the "old password" editbox before changing other preferences,
>> and everything should work fine.
>
> That still seems like a bug on our part.  The extra (and unintuitive)
> step shouldn't be necessary.

And what do you think we should do? From our viewpoint, the situation
is identical to the user trying to set his password to empty string.

So, if a user really does try to do that, should we just ignore it,
not telling him anything? Hmmm… We could say "if you tried to clear
your password, we ignored it, as that is not allowed, but other
preferences have been changed successfully, but I am not sure how much
of an improvement is that. We might also try to outsmart Firefox by
clearing the editbox explicitly using JavaScript shortly after the
page is loaded. (I don't know if that would even work, but maybe worth
an attempt.)

-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Simon Orr
Just to add my $0.02: I agree that this is due to something beyond the
control of mediawiki and probably shouldn't be worked around -

Clearing the box down with JS should be easy but if you're going to wait
more than a few milliseconds to do it, an experienced user may well have
started to type into the box by that time - and silently chopping off
the first few chars of your old password is not a great plan. (This is
more likely to happen if it's driven by the page's onload event which
won't fire until after all images etc... Are loaded meaning the PW box
itself may have been visible for a number of seconds on a slow
connection)

I was under the impression that FF and other browsers remembered
passwords based on the URL and field names (please correct me if I'm
wrong) so I'm not sure why it's pre-populating the password on that page
(the edit box has a different name to the login page) unless someone has
specifically prompted the browser to remember their password on the
change password (preferences) page - which seems to me to be utterly
pointless in the first place.

Can you clarify why exactly FF is remembering the password on that page
- did you ask it to?

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Petr Kadlec
Sent: 05 November 2008 17:42
To: Wikimedia developers
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Bug in user prefereces

2008/11/5 Aryeh Gregor <[hidden email]>:
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Petr Kadlec <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>> If the password boxes are really empty, the system assumes that.
>> However, if you use some password-remembering browser (such as
>> Firefox), it "helpfully" pre-fills the "current password" box,
leading
>> to this. At least, that is what happened to me. Be sure to manually
>> clear the "old password" editbox before changing other preferences,
>> and everything should work fine.
>
> That still seems like a bug on our part.  The extra (and unintuitive)
> step shouldn't be necessary.

And what do you think we should do? From our viewpoint, the situation
is identical to the user trying to set his password to empty string.

So, if a user really does try to do that, should we just ignore it,
not telling him anything? Hmmm... We could say "if you tried to clear
your password, we ignored it, as that is not allowed, but other
preferences have been changed successfully, but I am not sure how much
of an improvement is that. We might also try to outsmart Firefox by
clearing the editbox explicitly using JavaScript shortly after the
page is loaded. (I don't know if that would even work, but maybe worth
an attempt.)

-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
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Help needed with extension

avani-3
In reply to this post by Mormegil
Dear All,

I am new to developing extensions for mediawiki and need your guidance with
a particular extension I am working on for my research. Basically, I want
to color the words in an article based on its age. As a first step, I am
writing a simple extension which just colors all words in an article. I am
having problems with the hook I need to use.

I use the 'OutputPageBeforeHTML' hook to add span tags to the text before
it is actually displayed. But that does not seem to be working. So I have 2
questions.

1. Which hook would be the right one to add span tags to every word in an
article. 2. How do i extract the words in an article, without the markup
details?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Avanidhar


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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Aryeh Gregor
In reply to this post by Mormegil
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Petr Kadlec <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And what do you think we should do? From our viewpoint, the situation
> is identical to the user trying to set his password to empty string.
>
> So, if a user really does try to do that, should we just ignore it,
> not telling him anything?

That seems fairly reasonable, to be honest.  Fields that aren't filled
in can be ignored.

> We might also try to outsmart Firefox by
> clearing the editbox explicitly using JavaScript shortly after the
> page is loaded. (I don't know if that would even work, but maybe worth
> an attempt.)

Isn't there some HTML directive for inputs saying "don't auto-fill this box"?

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Re: Bug in user prefereces

MinuteElectron
In reply to this post by Simon Orr
Simon Orr wrote:
> I was under the impression that FF and other browsers remembered
> passwords based on the URL and field names (please correct me if I'm

This could be a MediaWiki installation not using short URLs, in which
case Special:UserLogin and Special:Preferences would both be under the
path - index.php - so the browser might treat them as the same page.

MinuteElectron.

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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Simon Orr
MinuteElectron wrote:
>
>Simon Orr wrote:
>> I was under the impression that FF and other browsers remembered
>> passwords based on the URL and field names (please correct me if I'm
>
>This could be a MediaWiki installation not using short URLs, in which
>case Special:UserLogin and Special:Preferences would both be under the
>path - index.php - so the browser might treat them as the same page.

I admit I hadn't considered that, however, the login page uses <input
name="wpPassword"> whereas the preferences page uses <input
name="wpOldpass"> (at least on my install) so I'm surprised it's
confusing the two unless it's been specifically told to remember the old
password when a password was changed - in fact it would be interesting
to know if it's populating the correct "old" password or is in fact
using a very old one.

P Please think of the environment before you print this email





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This email and any files transmitted with it are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the address it came from telling them it is not for you and then delete it from your system.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept  for the presence of computer viruses but this in no way indicates that the message is virus free.
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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Chad
In reply to this post by Simon Orr
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Simon Orr
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> Just to add my $0.02: I agree that this is due to something beyond the
> control of mediawiki and probably shouldn't be worked around -
>
> Clearing the box down with JS should be easy but if you're going to wait
> more than a few milliseconds to do it, an experienced user may well have
> started to type into the box by that time - and silently chopping off
> the first few chars of your old password is not a great plan. (This is
> more likely to happen if it's driven by the page's onload event which
> won't fire until after all images etc... Are loaded meaning the PW box
> itself may have been visible for a number of seconds on a slow
> connection)
>
> I was under the impression that FF and other browsers remembered
> passwords based on the URL and field names (please correct me if I'm
> wrong) so I'm not sure why it's pre-populating the password on that page
> (the edit box has a different name to the login page) unless someone has
> specifically prompted the browser to remember their password on the
> change password (preferences) page - which seems to me to be utterly
> pointless in the first place.
>
> Can you clarify why exactly FF is remembering the password on that page
> - did you ask it to?
>

I could be wrong here as well,  but I was always under the impression FF
remembered passwords based on domain name (including subdomain(s)),
meaning any password box on en.wikipedia (or any domain) will be autofilled.

Like I said, I could be wrong, but I thought that's how it was and seems
consistent with my own observations.

-Chad
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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Bence Damokos
In reply to this post by Arne 'Timwi' Heizmann
I think Google Chrome has the same behaviour.
---Bence

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Timwi <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I just tried to fix my timezone settings now that daylight savings is over.
>
> I get the following message:
>
>        Your password is invalid or too short. It must have at least 1
>        character and be different from your username.
>
> If the password boxes are empty, the system should not assume that I was
> trying to change my password.
>
> Timwi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Brad Jorsch
In reply to this post by Aryeh Gregor
On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 12:56:23PM -0500, Aryeh Gregor wrote:
>
> Isn't there some HTML directive for inputs saying "don't auto-fill this box"?

Adding a property autocomplete="off" works in Firefox and IE, at least
according to various Google searches. It won't validate, though, if that
matters to you.

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Re: Help needed with extension

Daniel Kinzler
In reply to this post by avani-3
[hidden email] schrieb:
> Dear All,
>
> I am new to developing extensions for mediawiki and need your guidance with
> a particular extension I am working on for my research. Basically, I want
> to color the words in an article based on its age.

Perhaps you are interested in the WikiTrust project, which does something like
this, but a bit more sohpisticated. Have a look at <http://trust.cse.ucsc.edu/>
and, for an impression of what it does, at
<http://wiki-trust.cse.ucsc.edu/index.php?title=Cheerleading&direction=prev&oldid=104848222>.

Even if it's not quite what you want, you can perhaps find the relevant bits in
the source code.

-- daniel

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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by Arne 'Timwi' Heizmann
Hoi,
Given that I currently have user profiles on 427 WMF wikis, I will not
bother changing settings like my timezone. It is just to much work. Many
applications allow you to select the timezone itself and have the offset to
GMT be a consequence of the timezone selected. An equally good change would
be to make the timezone part of preferences that are maintained globally for
a user.
Thanks,
       GerardM

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Timwi <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I just tried to fix my timezone settings now that daylight savings is over.
>
> I get the following message:
>
>        Your password is invalid or too short. It must have at least 1
>        character and be different from your username.
>
> If the password boxes are empty, the system should not assume that I was
> trying to change my password.
>
> Timwi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Mormegil
2008/11/6 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
> Given that I currently have user profiles on 427 WMF wikis, I will not
> bother changing settings like my timezone. It is just to much work. Many
> applications allow you to select the timezone itself and have the offset to
> GMT be a consequence of the timezone selected. An equally good change would
> be to make the timezone part of preferences that are maintained globally for
> a user.

This has nothing to do with this problem; this problematic behavior
occurs for any change of preferences, e.g. enabling some gadget, it is
not in any way limited to time zones.

For the request you describe, take a look at
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505 (which would,
indeed, be a useful thing to have).

-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]

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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
I do not have the illusion that my need for preferences that have a global
impact is unique. When I read the bug, I find that it was looked at for the
last time in 2004. In the mean time we have implemented SUL, in the mean
time much of what has been said in the bug report there is not that relevant
anymore.

The problem that Timwi described is one that needs a solution. When people
aim to fix this, it makes sense to do a proper job and consider the other
issues that exist as well. Because of this I think my reaction to this
thread is appropriate. :) It would be nice not to do the job, but to do a
great job.
Thanks,
        GerardM

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Petr Kadlec <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2008/11/6 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
> > Given that I currently have user profiles on 427 WMF wikis, I will not
> > bother changing settings like my timezone. It is just to much work. Many
> > applications allow you to select the timezone itself and have the offset
> to
> > GMT be a consequence of the timezone selected. An equally good change
> would
> > be to make the timezone part of preferences that are maintained globally
> for
> > a user.
>
> This has nothing to do with this problem; this problematic behavior
> occurs for any change of preferences, e.g. enabling some gadget, it is
> not in any way limited to time zones.
>
> For the request you describe, take a look at
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505 (which would,
> indeed, be a useful thing to have).
>
> -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Platonides
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi,
> Given that I currently have user profiles on 427 WMF wikis, I will not
> bother changing settings like my timezone. It is just to much work. Many
> applications allow you to select the timezone itself and have the offset to
> GMT be a consequence of the timezone selected. An equally good change would
> be to make the timezone part of preferences that are maintained globally for
> a user.
> Thanks,
>        GerardM

Why the timezone and not the preferred math display or image size?
It should be a global preferencing so you could globally set any
preference you want to.


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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
If we are to have global preferences fine. With the defaults for "preferred
math display" or "image size" I have no problem. The offset for time is not
usuable and i have user profiles effectively in two time zones; this is
confusing

So I agree, create a framework that allows for global preferences and
implement the time offset / time zone soonest.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Platonides <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Given that I currently have user profiles on 427 WMF wikis, I will not
> > bother changing settings like my timezone. It is just to much work. Many
> > applications allow you to select the timezone itself and have the offset
> to
> > GMT be a consequence of the timezone selected. An equally good change
> would
> > be to make the timezone part of preferences that are maintained globally
> for
> > a user.
> > Thanks,
> >        GerardM
>
> Why the timezone and not the preferred math display or image size?
> It should be a global preferencing so you could globally set any
> preference you want to.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Tei-2
In reply to this post by Brad Jorsch
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Brad Jorsch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 12:56:23PM -0500, Aryeh Gregor wrote:
>>
>> Isn't there some HTML directive for inputs saying "don't auto-fill this box"?
>
> Adding a property autocomplete="off" works in Firefox and IE, at least
> according to various Google searches. It won't validate, though, if that
> matters to you.
>

Here is a ridiculous hack to able that:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
  "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"
[
  <!ATTLIST html
      xmlns:goo CDATA #FIXED "http://zerror.com/google/autocomplete"
  >
  <!ATTLIST input autocomplete CDATA #IMPLIED>
]
>
<html xml:lang="en" lang="en" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
      xmlns:goo="http://zerror.com/google/autocomplete" >
  <head><title>Example</title></head>
  <body>
        <input type="text" name="search" autocomplete="on"
value="Looks mon, no hands!" />
  </body>
</html>



--
--
ℱin del ℳensaje.
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Re: Bug in user prefereces

Alex Zaddach
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
Gerard Meijssen wrote:

> Hoi,
> If we are to have global preferences fine. With the defaults for "preferred
> math display" or "image size" I have no problem. The offset for time is not
> usuable and i have user profiles effectively in two time zones; this is
> confusing
>
> So I agree, create a framework that allows for global preferences and
> implement the time offset / time zone soonest.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Platonides <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>> Hoi,
>>> Given that I currently have user profiles on 427 WMF wikis, I will not
>>> bother changing settings like my timezone. It is just to much work. Many
>>> applications allow you to select the timezone itself and have the offset
>> to
>>> GMT be a consequence of the timezone selected. An equally good change
>> would
>>> be to make the timezone part of preferences that are maintained globally
>> for
>>> a user.
>>> Thanks,
>>>        GerardM
>> Why the timezone and not the preferred math display or image size?
>> It should be a global preferencing so you could globally set any
>> preference you want to.
>>

I don't think there's anyone who thinks that global preferences would be
a bad idea (or if there are, they're a tiny minority). It just hasn't
been done yet. Any global preferences system would probably come after a
rewrite of the current preferences system[1] as it would probably be
done in mostly the same way. Doing it one preference at a time would be
rather inefficient.

The main issue is that you may not want the same preferences everywhere.
For example, email notification settings, which also has the issue of
not being consistent across projects. I may want notification for
watchlisted changes on small projects I don't check often, but not for
commons and meta, as I check those often. Or you may not want to use UTC
on projects that use a different default timezone for signatures and
such. So the global preferences would have to be locally overridable.

[1]<http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Deficits_of_the_current_preferences_system>
--
Alex (wikipedia:en:User:Mr.Z-man)

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