Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

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Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Rob Lanphier-4
Hi everyone,

I'd like to make everyone aware of this new open position:
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings/Bugmeister

The goal for the person hired to this position is to sift through the many,
many bugs we have in Bugzilla, and surface the ones that are most important
for everyone to focus on.

We're looking for someone who understands our editing community and
developer community, and isn't intimidated by Bugzilla or its trappings.
 However, we're *not* looking for someone with 10+ years of development
experience.

We think this is a really good entry-level position for someone who is eager
to work with Wikimedia Foundation and is interested in the technical
problems, but isn't (yet) suited to be a developer or other more technical
role.  This position represents a great opportunity for someone interested
in learning the ropes here. That said, we want to make sure we hire someone
who is going to stick with it for a little while, rather than get bored
after a month or two and wander off to do something else.

We imagine this person is going to be responsible for running community
triage discussions, updating fields in Bugzilla, helping update our bug
filing documentation, and helping members from our editing community file
quality bug reports.  We want someone who really wants to do a fantastic job
with this for a year or two before moving on to other roles.

If you're interested, please apply! (and let me know that you did)  If
you're someone who hangs around on this mailing list, IRC, etc, please make
sure to point that out in your cover letter, along with the id you use
around these parts.

Rob
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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

MZMcBride-2
Rob Lanphier wrote:
> I'd like to make everyone aware of this new open position:
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings/Bugmeister

I edited that page yesterday. Two parts were unclear to me, though:

Is the position intended to be full-time? And are local candidates really
preferred?

MZMcBride



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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Rob Lanphier
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 3:38 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Rob Lanphier wrote:
>> I'd like to make everyone aware of this new open position:
>> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings/Bugmeister
>
> I edited that page yesterday. Two parts were unclear to me, though:
>
> Is the position intended to be full-time?

Yup.

> And are local candidates really preferred?

All other things being equal, then having someone in the SF office
would be preferred to someone working remotely.  For an entry-level
job like this, it's pretty tough to learn the ropes of the job and
also learn everything necessary to be successful outside the main
office.  For a remote candidate to be considered, they'd pretty much
have to already be part of the community and have demonstrated that
they can do the job.

Rob

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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

MZMcBride-2
Rob Lanphier wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 3:38 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Rob Lanphier wrote:
>>> I'd like to make everyone aware of this new open position:
>>> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings/Bugmeister
>>
>> Is the position intended to be full-time?
>
> Yup.

Given that Wikimedia already employs a number of contractors who don't work
full-time, I think the fact that this position would be full-time is really
odd.

MZMcBride



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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Ryan Lane-2
> Given that Wikimedia already employs a number of contractors who don't work
> full-time, I think the fact that this position would be full-time is really
> odd.
>

It's in the strategic plan:

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2010-2011_Annual_Plan_Questions_and_Answers

If you'd like to discuss this, I think the strategy wiki is the right
spot. Not wikitech-l.

Respectfully,

Ryan Lane

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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

MZMcBride-2
Ryan Lane wrote:
>> Given that Wikimedia already employs a number of contractors who don't work
>> full-time, I think the fact that this position would be full-time is really
>> odd.
>>
>
> It's in the strategic plan:
>
>
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2010-2011_Annual_Plan_Questions_and_Answers

I don't see how the link you provided addresses the post you were replying
to at all.

> If you'd like to discuss this, I think the strategy wiki is the right
> spot. Not wikitech-l.

It's okay to advertise the position on wikitech-l, but not discuss it on
wikitech-l? Okay. The strategy wiki is pretty much dead, so I guess I'll
just move on.

MZMcBride



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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Roan Kattouw-2
2010/10/8 MZMcBride <[hidden email]>:
> I don't see how the link you provided addresses the post you were replying
> to at all.
>
I think Ryan meant that the hiring a (full-time) Bugmeister was in the
annual plan.

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
Hoi,
It is not that odd when you consider the Herculean job that is awaiting the
bugmeister.
Thanks,
      Gerard

PS there is no stream running nearby that can be used to clean out the
stables

On 8 October 2010 05:30, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Rob Lanphier wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 3:38 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Rob Lanphier wrote:
> >>> I'd like to make everyone aware of this new open position:
> >>> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings/Bugmeister
> >>
> >> Is the position intended to be full-time?
> >
> > Yup.
>
> Given that Wikimedia already employs a number of contractors who don't work
> full-time, I think the fact that this position would be full-time is really
> odd.
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Ryan Lane-2
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
>> It's in the strategic plan:
>>
>>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2010-2011_Annual_Plan_Questions_and_Answers
>
> I don't see how the link you provided addresses the post you were replying
> to at all.
>

As Roan pointed out, I was telling you that a full time Bugmeister was
in the annual plan, if you had bothered to click the link, and
searched for "Bugmeister".

>> If you'd like to discuss this, I think the strategy wiki is the right
>> spot. Not wikitech-l.
>
> It's okay to advertise the position on wikitech-l, but not discuss it on
> wikitech-l? Okay. The strategy wiki is pretty much dead, so I guess I'll
> just move on.

Wikitech-l is for technical discussions. I'm not saying you *need* to
discuss this on strategy wiki, but this isn't this right place for it.
Maybe foundation-l? Let's keep this list on topic.

- Ryan

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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Chad
I don't think its really that off topic, we've certainly done worse.

Plus, foundation-l is useless.

-Chad

On Oct 8, 2010 11:15 AM, "Ryan Lane" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> It's in the strategic plan:
>>
>>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2010-2011_Annual_Plan_Que...
As Roan pointed out, I was telling you that a full time Bugmeister was
in the annual plan, if you had bothered to click the link, and
searched for "Bugmeister".


>> If you'd like to discuss this, I think the strategy wiki is the right
>> spot. Not wikitech-l.
>...
Wikitech-l is for technical discussions. I'm not saying you *need* to
discuss this on strategy wiki, but this isn't this right place for it.
Maybe foundation-l? Let's keep this list on topic.

- Ryan


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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Aryeh Gregor
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:30 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Given that Wikimedia already employs a number of contractors who don't work
> full-time, I think the fact that this position would be full-time is really
> odd.

I think a full-time position is really needed here.  There are lots of
bugs filed, and it's not trivial to triage them, try to extract more
information from users, assign them to the right people, and make sure
those people fix them.  Plus, the bugmeister could actually fix some
of the bugs in their spare time.  Plenty of work for a full-time
position.

On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 1:37 AM, Ryan Lane <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If you'd like to discuss this, I think the strategy wiki is the right
> spot. Not wikitech-l.

Things should be discussed wherever there are the most interested,
informed people.  Developers are some of the people who are most
interested and informed about what resources are being allocated to
things like bug handling, so wikitech-l is a good place for a
discussion on this, IMO (although not the only legitimate place).

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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Platonides
+1


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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Chad
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Platonides <[hidden email]> wrote:
> +1
>

I'm assuming you meant +1 to making it a FT position, but
you didn't quote any text so I cannot be sure ;-)

-Chad

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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Neil Kandalgaonkar
In reply to this post by Aryeh Gregor
On 10/8/10 1:05 PM, Aryeh Gregor wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 1:37 AM, Ryan Lane<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> If you'd like to discuss this, I think the strategy wiki is the right
>> spot. Not wikitech-l.
>
> Things should be discussed wherever there are the most interested,
> informed people.

I don't think that Ryan was trying to shut you down... I think he was
trying to direct your concerns to where they would be heard by the right
people and in the right context.

Realistically, the non-techie strategy and budget people are not going
to follow wikitech-l.

Danese (and the rest of the WMF tech staffers) do read this list, but
most of us think hiring someone local to SF is a good thing, so we're
not the best people to be advocates for your point.

--
Neil Kandalgaonkar     <[hidden email]>

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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Ryan Lane-2
Ryan Lane wrote:
>>> It's in the strategic plan:
>>>
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2010-2011_Annual_Plan_Questions_and_Answers
>>
>> I don't see how the link you provided addresses the post you were replying
>> to at all.
>>
> As Roan pointed out, I was telling you that a full time Bugmeister was
> in the annual plan, if you had bothered to click the link, and
> searched for "Bugmeister".

Please don't be snide and wrong at the same time. Pick one.

I don't see anything in that link (or in the related PDF) about a Bugmeister
position being full-time. (Though feel free to quote a specific section if
you think I've missed something.) As I said earlier, it's pretty common for
Wikimedia to hire folks on a non-full-time basis[1] (especially in tech
roles), which is why I found it odd that this particular position is
intended to be full-time.

Aryeh Gregor wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:30 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Given that Wikimedia already employs a number of contractors who don't work
>> full-time, I think the fact that this position would be full-time is really
>> odd.
>
> I think a full-time position is really needed here.  There are lots of
> bugs filed, and it's not trivial to triage them, try to extract more
> information from users, assign them to the right people, and make sure
> those people fix them.  Plus, the bugmeister could actually fix some
> of the bugs in their spare time.  Plenty of work for a full-time
> position.

Personally, I can't see it taking more than a few hours each week (and I say
that as someone who's done a fair bit of bug triaging, assigning, and
cleanup in this particular tracker). Though I suppose it's likely that the
scope of the role would expand over time past Bugzilla.

From discussions with some of the people involved in creating this position,
it seems that Wikimedia is specifically looking for someone who _isn't_ a
(PHP) developer because that type of person would want to fix these bugs
themselves and there's a serious concern that a developer would very likely
quickly get bored with the job after a few weeks. That's my understanding,
at least.

MZMcBride

[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_contractors



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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Trevor Parscal-2


On 10/8/10 2:58 PM, MZMcBride wrote:

> Ryan Lane wrote:
>>>> It's in the strategic plan:
>>>>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2010-2011_Annual_Plan_Questions_and_Answers
>>> I don't see how the link you provided addresses the post you were replying
>>> to at all.
>>>
>> As Roan pointed out, I was telling you that a full time Bugmeister was
>> in the annual plan, if you had bothered to click the link, and
>> searched for "Bugmeister".
> Please don't be snide and wrong at the same time. Pick one.
>
> I don't see anything in that link (or in the related PDF) about a Bugmeister
> position being full-time. (Though feel free to quote a specific section if
> you think I've missed something.) As I said earlier, it's pretty common for
> Wikimedia to hire folks on a non-full-time basis[1] (especially in tech
> roles), which is why I found it odd that this particular position is
> intended to be full-time.
>
I don't see anything that specifically says something about full-time
either, but all of that aside, RobLa gave you a response within 20
minutes of you asking your original question: "is this really full-time
local?".

Your disagreement that the open Bugmeister position should be full-time
and local has been well noted. Let's move along please.

- Trevor

> Aryeh Gregor wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:30 PM, MZMcBride<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> Given that Wikimedia already employs a number of contractors who don't work
>>> full-time, I think the fact that this position would be full-time is really
>>> odd.
>> I think a full-time position is really needed here.  There are lots of
>> bugs filed, and it's not trivial to triage them, try to extract more
>> information from users, assign them to the right people, and make sure
>> those people fix them.  Plus, the bugmeister could actually fix some
>> of the bugs in their spare time.  Plenty of work for a full-time
>> position.
> Personally, I can't see it taking more than a few hours each week (and I say
> that as someone who's done a fair bit of bug triaging, assigning, and
> cleanup in this particular tracker). Though I suppose it's likely that the
> scope of the role would expand over time past Bugzilla.
>
>  From discussions with some of the people involved in creating this position,
> it seems that Wikimedia is specifically looking for someone who _isn't_ a
> (PHP) developer because that type of person would want to fix these bugs
> themselves and there's a serious concern that a developer would very likely
> quickly get bored with the job after a few weeks. That's my understanding,
> at least.
>
> MZMcBride
>
> [1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_contractors
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Platonides
In reply to this post by Chad
Chad wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Platonides <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> +1
>>
>
> I'm assuming you meant +1 to making it a FT position, but
> you didn't quote any text so I cannot be sure ;-)
>
> -Chad

I didn't want to quote the full email ;)
I agree that reviewing the thousands of open bugs* will take a lot of
time. Although if it means the position should be full time would mostly
depend on the importance given to the backlog.

I agree with this mailing list being a proper place to discuss about the
bugmeister position.
After all, this is the people with which the bugmeister should work
(tech staff + tech community).


Neil wrote:
> I think he was trying to direct your concerns to where they would be heard by the right
> people and in the right context.

Then the right people should be pointed to follow this thread (whoever
they are, the CTO for a bugmeister position would have been a fair guess).
On the other hand, if this bugmeister discussion was about the budget
allocated to its salary instead of the work it has to do, I would move
that to foundation-l not wikitech-l


*Asking for new/reopen bugs in mediawiki component stops at 2700. There
may be more.


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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
If I had anything to say about the importance of the existing back log, I
would have the WMF hire two full time people. This would show the importance
given to the contributions of volunteer developers. I can imagine that
working only on bugs is not that interesting to some. Once the two
bugmeisters are in "maintenance mode" there would be time for something else
as well. This kind of carrot is intended to be motivating.

The advantage of two people working as a bugmeister is that they can have
complementary skills. This would also improve the total quality of the
process.
Thanks,
       GerardM

On 9 October 2010 01:50, Platonides <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Chad wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Platonides <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> +1
> >>
> >
> > I'm assuming you meant +1 to making it a FT position, but
> > you didn't quote any text so I cannot be sure ;-)
> >
> > -Chad
>
> I didn't want to quote the full email ;)
> I agree that reviewing the thousands of open bugs* will take a lot of
> time. Although if it means the position should be full time would mostly
> depend on the importance given to the backlog.
>
> I agree with this mailing list being a proper place to discuss about the
> bugmeister position.
> After all, this is the people with which the bugmeister should work
> (tech staff + tech community).
>
>
> Neil wrote:
> > I think he was trying to direct your concerns to where they would be
> heard by the right
> > people and in the right context.
>
> Then the right people should be pointed to follow this thread (whoever
> they are, the CTO for a bugmeister position would have been a fair guess).
> On the other hand, if this bugmeister discussion was about the budget
> allocated to its salary instead of the work it has to do, I would move
> that to foundation-l not wikitech-l
>
>
> *Asking for new/reopen bugs in mediawiki component stops at 2700. There
> may be more.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

Brandon Harris-4
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3


On 10/8/10 4:30 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:

> PS there is no stream running nearby that can be used to clean out the
> stables

        I love that there are people on this list who knows about the 12
labors.  And yes, I think that the Stables is the best metaphor for what
awaits.

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Re: Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation

David Gerard-2
On 9 October 2010 08:02, Brandon Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 10/8/10 4:30 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:

>> PS there is no stream running nearby that can be used to clean out the
>> stables

>        I love that there are people on this list who knows about the 12
> labors.


Wikipedians entering pub quizzes is just unfair to the other patrons.


- d.

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