Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

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Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

reedy
Sooo.

 

Here we are again, looking at PHP version bumps. Our current minimum version
is 5.2.3, released in June 2009 (5.2.0 was November 2006).

 

I'm proposing to at least bump to version 5.3.0 (as the minimal), release
back in June 2006. Though a higher point release would be acceptable if
anyone knows of any blocking bugs that were fixed later in the release
series. Obviously, we want to try and use a version that gives both
developers benefits, without hopefully causing most administrators issues
having to manually update PHP etc.

 

From terms of version availability, Ubuntu 10.04 (from April 2010) Lucid LTS
gives PHP Version 5.3.2 [1]. From the Wikimedia Foundations setup this means
we are sufficiently ahead that no extra work would be needed looking to
attempt to backport versions. And with 12.04 not long away (granted, we're
not going to be immediately upgrading), which has 5.3.10 (current stable
release) [2].

 

From the developers point of view, we get some extras such as Namespace
support, Late static binding among other useful features. I have already
committed some code to our repo as part of AntiSpoof that now has a 5.3
minimal php version. I know there was support from other developers to make
this version bump.

 

It would be nice to have this change for the 1.20 release cycle if there are
no major reasons not to.

 

One step closer to 5.4.0 and buh-bye to register_globals and safe_mode!

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Sam

 

 

[1] http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/php5

[2] http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/php5

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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Chad
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Sam Reed <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm proposing to at least bump to version 5.3.0 (as the minimal), release
> back in June 2006. Though a higher point release would be acceptable if
> anyone knows of any blocking bugs that were fixed later in the release
> series. Obviously, we want to try and use a version that gives both
> developers benefits, without hopefully causing most administrators issues
> having to manually update PHP etc.
>

I'd suggest at least 5.3.2. The first release is always unstable,
I wouldn't recommend people be using that for production sites.
5.3.1 is patently broken, so the next logical number would be
5.3.2. This would still give us a release in the 5.3 series that's
fairly well supported.

Let's wait a couple of weeks until after the git migration. It'll
give us enough time to bikeshed over 5.3.n±1.

-Chad

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ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles meta tag

Aran Dunkley
In reply to this post by reedy
I noticed that new MediaWiki installations have a new meta tag which is
not in the HTML specification and means that MediaWiki sites cannot be
made W3C compliant.

For example, running the validator over mediawiki.org gives the
following error (amongst a few others complaining about deprecrated
cellpaddign etc):

"Bad value ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles for attribute name on element
meta: Keyword resourceloaderdynamicstyles is not registered."

Would it be worth creating a short description page about the tag in
mediawiki.org and registering it on
http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions to propose it be included in
the specification?

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Re: ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles meta tag

Chad
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Aran <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I noticed that new MediaWiki installations have a new meta tag which is
> not in the HTML specification and means that MediaWiki sites cannot be
> made W3C compliant.
>
> For example, running the validator over mediawiki.org gives the
> following error (amongst a few others complaining about deprecrated
> cellpaddign etc):
>
> "Bad value ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles for attribute name on element
> meta: Keyword resourceloaderdynamicstyles is not registered."
>
> Would it be worth creating a short description page about the tag in
> mediawiki.org and registering it on
> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions to propose it be included in
> the specification?
>

We talked about this back in August.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2011-August/054561.html

-Chad

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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Antoine Musso-3
In reply to this post by reedy
Le 20/02/12 22:01, Sam Reed a écrit :
 >
> Here we are again, looking at PHP version bumps. Our current minimum version
> is 5.2.3, released in June 2009 (5.2.0 was November 2006).
>
> I'm proposing to at least bump to version 5.3.0 (as the minimal), release
> back in June 2006. Though a higher point release would be acceptable

Jeroen asked a few days ago too so there must be interest for PHP 5.3
new features.

We should stick to 5.2.x for now, the main reason would be to keep
compatibility with HipHop Virtual Machine for PHP [1]. I have no idea
which 5.3 features is/will be supported, Tim probably has more informations.

Also, would be great to avoid code which do not backport to 1.19. I
suspect the day we had 5.3.x, people will start rewriting everything to
use closure and namespaces, making the code totally different again,
breaking back compatibility with extensions etc...


[1] https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150415177928920


--
Antoine Musso


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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Huib Laurens
Hello,

Please note that CentOS is still running PHP 5.2.x out of the box. The same
goes for the cheap controlpanel DirectAdmin.

With a test in cPanel users almost 90% is running CentOS 5.x with PHP 5.2.x

With changing the minimum version we would stop a lot of users from using
mediawik...


Best,

Huib

On Tuesday, February 21, 2012, Antoine Musso wrote:

> Le 20/02/12 22:01, Sam Reed a écrit :
> >
>
>> Here we are again, looking at PHP version bumps. Our current minimum
>> version
>> is 5.2.3, released in June 2009 (5.2.0 was November 2006).
>>
>> I'm proposing to at least bump to version 5.3.0 (as the minimal), release
>> back in June 2006. Though a higher point release would be acceptable
>>
>
> Jeroen asked a few days ago too so there must be interest for PHP 5.3 new
> features.
>
> We should stick to 5.2.x for now, the main reason would be to keep
> compatibility with HipHop Virtual Machine for PHP [1]. I have no idea which
> 5.3 features is/will be supported, Tim probably has more informations.
>
> Also, would be great to avoid code which do not backport to 1.19. I
> suspect the day we had 5.3.x, people will start rewriting everything to use
> closure and namespaces, making the code totally different again, breaking
> back compatibility with extensions etc...
>
>
> [1] https://www.facebook.com/note.**php?note_id=10150415177928920<https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150415177928920>
>
>
> --
> Antoine Musso
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
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>


--
Kind regards,

Huib Laurens
WickedWay.nl

Webhosting the wicked way.
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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Chad
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 2:11 AM, Huib Laurens <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Please note that CentOS is still running PHP 5.2.x out of the box. The same
> goes for the cheap controlpanel DirectAdmin.
>
> With a test in cPanel users almost 90% is running CentOS 5.x with PHP 5.2.x
>
> With changing the minimum version we would stop a lot of users from using
> mediawik...
>

Maybe it would convince people to stop using cPanel.

I know it won't happen...but I can dream, can't I? ;-)

-Chad

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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Huib Laurens
Haha!

Its a fact that cPanel will make the upgrade easy to php 5.3 or CentOS 6.*

But I guess it will bring up a lot of questions when it would be bumped up
right now, it seems that PHP 5.2.x is still widly in use..

Best,

Huib

Just checked, but parrelels plesk gives me a PHP 5.3 version, so all
hosting companies should switch to Plesk :P


On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 2:11 AM, Huib Laurens <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Please note that CentOS is still running PHP 5.2.x out of the box. The
> same
> > goes for the cheap controlpanel DirectAdmin.
> >
> > With a test in cPanel users almost 90% is running CentOS 5.x with PHP
> 5.2.x
> >
> > With changing the minimum version we would stop a lot of users from using
> > mediawik...
> >
>
> Maybe it would convince people to stop using cPanel.
>
> I know it won't happen...but I can dream, can't I? ;-)
>
> -Chad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



--
Kind regards,

Huib Laurens
WickedWay.nl

Webhosting the wicked way.
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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Chad
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Huib Laurens <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Haha!
>
> Its a fact that cPanel will make the upgrade easy to php 5.3 or CentOS 6.*
>

If memory serves, nothing cPanel does is easy (read: pain free). But we're
quickly digressing.

-Chad

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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Chad
On 21 February 2012 12:11, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 2:11 AM, Huib Laurens <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Please note that CentOS is still running PHP 5.2.x out of the box. The same
>> goes for the cheap controlpanel DirectAdmin.
>> With a test in cPanel users almost 90% is running CentOS 5.x with PHP 5.2.x
>> With changing the minimum version we would stop a lot of users from using
>> mediawik...

> Maybe it would convince people to stop using cPanel.
> I know it won't happen...but I can dream, can't I? ;-)


Presumably we have contacts at hosting companies and cPanel? It would
be in order to warn them.


- d.

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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Antoine Musso-3
Le 21/02/12 13:28, David Gerard a écrit :
> Presumably we have contacts at hosting companies and cPanel? It would
> be in order to warn them.

We can not contact / track PHP version of major hosting companies. Their
customers will eventually ask them for an upgrade.

--
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Chad
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Antoine Musso <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Le 21/02/12 13:28, David Gerard a écrit :
>
>> Presumably we have contacts at hosting companies and cPanel? It would
>> be in order to warn them.
>
>
> We can not contact / track PHP version of major hosting companies. Their
> customers will eventually ask them for an upgrade.
>

Agreed. Trying to push people to upgrade to 5.3 will be a colossal waste
of time. Remember the pushes for PHP5 and to get people to drop PHP4?
Hosting companies only got on board when there was finally sufficient
demand for it, not because a bunch of people said "you're using old
software, stop!"

The correct answer is "I'm sorry this is inconvenient, ask your hosting
provider or find a better one."

-Chad

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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Domas Mituzas
Hi!

> Agreed. Trying to push people to upgrade to 5.3 will be a colossal waste
> of time. Remember the pushes for PHP5 and to get people to drop PHP4?

None of that frustration was around MediaWiki development - we dropped PHP4 swiftly, and I guess only Jeffrey Merkey complained. ;-)
If MediaWiki is better on newer PHP, we should use newer PHP.

Domas


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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Chad
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Domas Mituzas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi!
>
>> Agreed. Trying to push people to upgrade to 5.3 will be a colossal waste
>> of time. Remember the pushes for PHP5 and to get people to drop PHP4?
>
> None of that frustration was around MediaWiki development - we dropped PHP4
> swiftly, and I guess only Jeffrey Merkey complained. ;-)

I was speaking generally, not about MediaWiki.

> If MediaWiki is better on newer PHP, we should use newer PHP.
>

It's "better" in that it's the active release branch and is supported.
Although I'm less convinced that's the drive behind some people
to want 5.3...I'm sure we'll get a ton of anonymous functions and
LSB once the version's bumped. I can't wait ;-)

-Chad

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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Antoine Musso-3
In reply to this post by Domas Mituzas
Le 21/02/12 16:08, Domas Mituzas wrote:
> If MediaWiki is better on newer PHP, we should use newer PHP.

I have read that:
  > If MediaWiki is better on JS, we should use JS.

Go figure.



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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Trevor Parscal-2
Me too.

- Trevor

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Antoine Musso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le 21/02/12 16:08, Domas Mituzas wrote:
>
>> If MediaWiki is better on newer PHP, we should use newer PHP.
>>
>
> I have read that:
>  > If MediaWiki is better on JS, we should use JS.
>
> Go figure.
>
>
>
>
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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Arthur Richards-2
In reply to this post by Chad
>
> The correct answer is "I'm sorry this is inconvenient, ask your hosting
> provider or find a better one."


I completely agree.

Being able to use features like namespaces and late static binding would be
a huge win. I'm definitely in favor of bumping the minimum PHP version to
5.3.x.

--
Arthur Richards
Software Engineer, Mobile
[[User:Awjrichards]]
IRC: awjr
+1-415-839-6885 x6687
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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Chad
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Arthur Richards
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>>
>> The correct answer is "I'm sorry this is inconvenient, ask your hosting
>> provider or find a better one."
>
>
> I completely agree.
>
> Being able to use features like namespaces and late static binding would be
> a huge win. I'm definitely in favor of bumping the minimum PHP version to
> 5.3.x.
>

Namespaces are moderately useful. They would've been much nicer
if PHP hadn't decided on completely batshit notation for them.

I'd also like to take a quick moment to put myself on the record as
saying that I think LSB is a hack. It can has its uses, but the vast
majority of examples I've seen in the wild so far are hacks to work
around poor initial design decisions.

Please use features intelligently, not just because they're the shiny
new tool in the drawer.

-Chad

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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Patrick Reilly-2
In reply to this post by Arthur Richards-2
The key features of PHP 5.3.0 include:

Support for namespaces
Late static binding
Lambda Functions and Closures

Syntax additions:
NOWDOC,
ternary short cut "?:"
and jump label (limited goto), __callStatic()
Under the hood performance improvements
Optional garbage collection for cyclic references

More consistent float rounding...

Deprecation notices are now handled via E_DEPRECATED (part of E_ALL)
instead of the E_STRICT error level

Several enhancements to enable more flexiblity in php.ini (and ini parsing
in general)

On Feb 24, 2012 2:35 AM, "Arthur Richards" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > The correct answer is "I'm sorry this is inconvenient, ask your hosting
> > provider or find a better one."
>
>
> I completely agree.
>
> Being able to use features like namespaces and late static binding would
be

> a huge win. I'm definitely in favor of bumping the minimum PHP version to
> 5.3.x.
>
> --
> Arthur Richards
> Software Engineer, Mobile
> [[User:Awjrichards]]
> IRC: awjr
> +1-415-839-6885 x6687
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: Bump of minimum required PHP version to 5.3 for MediaWiki 1.20

Chad
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Patrick Reilly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Syntax additions:
> NOWDOC,

This is actually very useful.

> ternary short cut "?:"

I don't think this syntax is all that intuitive. People are
lazy though, so I guess it'll get used.

> and jump label (limited goto), __callStatic()

If anyone uses jump I'm going to whack them over the
head with a revert stick. I see zero reason why this
should ever be needed.

> Under the hood performance improvements
> Optional garbage collection for cyclic references
>

This is my favorite part of 5.3 <3

-Chad

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