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Category links

John Wiedenhoeft
Hi there,

I was thinking about a feature in mediawiki that I can't make sense of.
When adding a category link to an article, it links to the edit page of
the category site. I guess this is to enable the user to quickly edit
this page without pressing the edit button (is this too much to expect
from him?). But what if no description in desired, e.g. if the category
("biology", "medicine") is self-explaining? The links stay red as if the
category page didn't exist.

Wouldn't it be desirable to change this behaviour? I really can't see
the benefit. Alternatively, the user should be able to save a
non-edited, empty page as the first version.


What do you think?

cheers,
john

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Re: Category links

Rob Church
On 07/04/06, John Wiedenhoeft <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Wouldn't it be desirable to change this behaviour?

Warning: The last time someone altered this (Tim Starling, who changed
the links to point to the page, rather than the edit view), all hell
broke loose and there was screaming and ranting.


Rob Church
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Re: Category links

Brion Vibber
In reply to this post by John Wiedenhoeft
John Wiedenhoeft wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I was thinking about a feature in mediawiki that I can't make sense of.
> When adding a category link to an article, it links to the edit page of
> the category site. I guess this is to enable the user to quickly edit
> this page without pressing the edit button (is this too much to expect
> from him?). But what if no description in desired, e.g. if the category
> ("biology", "medicine") is self-explaining? The links stay red as if the
> category page didn't exist.

Then save a blank page if you have this strange, unique requirement.

> Wouldn't it be desirable to change this behaviour?

No.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


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Re: Category links

Rotem Liss
In reply to this post by Rob Church
If you mean http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5073, the
problem was the categories' links color became blue, and we cannot see
whether we've misspelled the category or not. However, there is no
problem changing the red links to the categories to point the page
rather than the edit view.


Rob Church wrote:

>On 07/04/06, John Wiedenhoeft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Wouldn't it be desirable to change this behaviour?
>>    
>>
>
>Warning: The last time someone altered this (Tim Starling, who changed
>the links to point to the page, rather than the edit view), all hell
>broke loose and there was screaming and ranting.
>
>
>Rob Church
>_______________________________________________
>MediaWiki-l mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
>  
>

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Re: Category links

John Wiedenhoeft
In reply to this post by Brion Vibber
> Then save a blank page if you have this strange, unique requirement.
>

That's what I mean by "Alternatively, the user should be able to save a
non-edited, empty page as the first version." It doesn't work, at least
not on my machine (btw, why is it strange?)

> > Wouldn't it be desirable to change this behaviour?
>
> No.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

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upgraded to 1.6.1, no html interpretation ?

Hiram Clawson
Good Morning MediaWiki Fans:

The upgrade from 1.5.8 to 1.6.1 was painless.  But pages
that had html mark-up in them no longer render as the
markups indicate.  The raw html is displayed.  Did I miss
a configuration item somewhere ?

--Hiram
==========================
http://www.hiram.ws/adopt/
==========================
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Re: Category links

Rick DeNatale
In reply to this post by Rotem Liss
On 4/7/06, Rotem Liss <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If you mean http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5073, the
> problem was the categories' links color became blue, and we cannot see
> whether we've misspelled the category or not. However, there is no
> problem changing the red links to the categories to point the page
> rather than the edit view.

Except.

1) Until you edit the category page, it doesn't exist, this is no
different than putting a link in a page to any other page which
doesn't exist.

2) The reason the link is red is because it points to a non-existant page.

3) The contents of  category pages is not just to explain the category
name, but to categorize the category so as to form a hierarchy, so
"self describing" category like "biology" should still be put into a
higher level category like "sciences".  This requires human
interaction.

4) The red category link is an indication that either:
    a) This is a newish category which hasn't yet been categorized itself
or
    b) The category name was mistyped.

In either case the red link is an indication that something needs to
be done manually to make the link blue.  Generating a blank category
page removes this symptom of a problem which is why folks seemed to
disturbed when this was changed, and why the change was backed out.

--
Rick DeNatale

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Re: Category links

John Wiedenhoeft
Stupid question: if you have to categorize a category as a subcategory
of another category, there will always be at least one category that's
still red, unless you build up circles?
>
> 4) The red category link is an indication that either:
>     a) This is a newish category which hasn't yet been categorized itself
> or
>     b) The category name was mistyped.

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Re: Category links

Joshua Yeidel
In reply to this post by John Wiedenhoeft
You can make a blank page by using the text:

&nbsp;

Which inserts the HTML entity for a non-breaking space character.

-- Joshua



On 4/7/06 9:19 AM, "John Wiedenhoeft" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Then save a blank page if you have this strange, unique requirement.
>>
>
> That's what I mean by "Alternatively, the user should be able to save a
> non-edited, empty page as the first version." It doesn't work, at least
> not on my machine (btw, why is it strange?)
>
>>> Wouldn't it be desirable to change this behaviour?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MediaWiki-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

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Re: Category links

Tony Bowden-3
In reply to this post by John Wiedenhoeft
On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 08:51:04PM +0200, John Wiedenhoeft wrote:
> Stupid question: if you have to categorize a category as a subcategory
> of another category, there will always be at least one category that's
> still red, unless you build up circles?

It's not about categorising the category. Adding any text to describe
the category will do.

Tony
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Re: Category links

laurent-17
In reply to this post by John Wiedenhoeft

John Wiedenhoeft wrote:
> Stupid question: if you have to categorize a category as a subcategory
> of another category, there will always be at least one category that's
> still red, unless you build up circles?
That upmost category, the one that contains them all, can then be edited
to display "This is the end of the universe."

But to make my message useful, I recommend to describe the whole
hierarchy structure in the topmost category, the one that doesn't get
categorized into another. This is like stating, in the "Human" page,
that everything frmo that point is categorized into organs or members or
.. etc

--
Laurent
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Re: upgraded to 1.6.1, no html interpretation ?

Brion Vibber
In reply to this post by Hiram Clawson
Hiram Clawson wrote:
> Good Morning MediaWiki Fans:
>
> The upgrade from 1.5.8 to 1.6.1 was painless.  But pages
> that had html mark-up in them no longer render as the
> markups indicate.  The raw html is displayed.  Did I miss
> a configuration item somewhere ?

Example?

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


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Re: upgraded to 1.6.1, no html interpretation ?

Hiram Clawson
I have a <ul> ... </ul> list
and the individual items declared with <li>
are not right.  The <ul> and </ul> are displayed as
html correctly, but the <li> is escaped to &lt;li&gt;

For example, a section of page source returned:

<div class="editsection" style="float:right;margin-left:5px;">[<a href="/index.php?title=User:Hiram&amp;action=edit&amp;section=3"
title="Edit section: To Do List">edit</a>]</div><a name="To_Do_List"></a><h4>To Do List</h4>
<ul>
&lt;li&gt; fixup loading of bacEndPairs to avoid the chrom+chromEnd index,
see Bob's email of 16:58 2006-04-06
&lt;li&gt; Webb &amp; David's randomization work
&lt;li&gt; David mentioned liftOver for mm8 -&gt; mm7
&lt;li&gt; Attempting to finish off monDom4 (needs Hg18 mapped proteins)

&lt;li&gt; microRNA targets tracks (Nikolaus, hg17, dm2, ce2 - waiting on confirmation)
&lt;li&gt; mm8 panTro2 alignments (finishing up alignments 29 March)
&lt;li&gt; rework multiz when mm8/panTro2 done
&lt;li&gt; panTro2 monDom4 alignments (panTro2 being rebuilt)
&lt;li&gt; monDom4 human proteins mapping (have Hg18 proteins, now simpleChaining)
&lt;li&gt; monDom4 self chain/net (chaining on kolossus, takes too long)

&lt;li&gt; wiki administration (on-going situation)
&lt;li&gt; <a href="/index.php/Hiram:Done" title="Hiram:Done">Tasks Completed</a>
</ul>
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Re: upgraded to 1.6.1, no html interpretation ?

Daniel Eklund
Wow, I didn't check before, but I have the same issue.  Thanks for  
pointing this out.

On Apr 7, 2006, at 3:27 PM, Hiram Clawson wrote:

> I have a <ul> ... </ul> list
> and the individual items declared with <li>
> are not right.  The <ul> and </ul> are displayed as
> html correctly, but the <li> is escaped to &lt;li&gt;

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Re: upgraded to 1.6.1, no html interpretation ?

Brion Vibber
In reply to this post by Hiram Clawson
Hiram Clawson wrote:
> I have a <ul> ... </ul> list
> and the individual items declared with <li>
> are not right.  The <ul> and </ul> are displayed as
> html correctly, but the <li> is escaped to &lt;li&gt;
>
> For example, a section of page source returned:

Show the wikitext source please. A URL to the page on your wiki is preferred.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


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Re: Category links

Rick DeNatale
In reply to this post by John Wiedenhoeft
On 4/7/06, John Wiedenhoeft <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Stupid question: if you have to categorize a category as a subcategory
> of another category, there will always be at least one category that's
> still red, unless you build up circles?
> >
> > 4) The red category link is an indication that either:
> >     a) This is a newish category which hasn't yet been categorized itself
> > or
> >     b) The category name was mistyped.

Well, it IS a bit metaphysical.

To get a sense of how it works on wikipedia look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fundamental
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Fundamental

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Categories
Which I think should be the only uncategorized category, which is why,
in turn I believe is the motivation for the special page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Uncategorizedcategories
Which I think is there to look for problem categories, and which
doesn't seem to be real time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Categories


--
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Re: upgraded to 1.6.1, no html interpretation ?

Hiram Clawson
In reply to this post by Brion Vibber
URL to page: http://genomewiki.cse.ucsc.edu/index.php/User:Hiram

wikitext section:
<h4>To Do List</h4>
<ul>
<li> fixup loading of bacEndPairs to avoid the chrom+chromEnd index,
see Bob's email of 16:58 2006-04-06
<li> Webb & David's randomization work
<li> David mentioned liftOver for mm8 -> mm7
<li> Attempting to finish off monDom4 (needs Hg18 mapped proteins)
<li> microRNA targets tracks (Nikolaus, hg17, dm2, ce2 - waiting on confirmation)
<li> mm8 panTro2 alignments (finishing up alignments 29 March)
<li> rework multiz when mm8/panTro2 done
<li> panTro2 monDom4 alignments (panTro2 being rebuilt)
<li> monDom4 human proteins mapping (have Hg18 proteins, now simpleChaining)
<li> monDom4 self chain/net (chaining on kolossus, takes too long)
<li> wiki administration (on-going situation)
<li> [[Hiram:Done|Tasks Completed]]
</ul>
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Re: upgraded to 1.6.1, no html interpretation ?

Brion Vibber
Hiram Clawson wrote:
> URL to page: http://genomewiki.cse.ucsc.edu/index.php/User:Hiram
>
> wikitext section:
> <h4>To Do List</h4>
> <ul>
> <li> fixup loading of bacEndPairs to avoid the chrom+chromEnd index,
> see Bob's email of 16:58 2006-04-06

Add </li> end tags.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


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Re: upgraded to 1.6.1, no html interpretation ?

Hiram Clawson
I just tried that in one of the sections.  Didn't help for that
section, maybe I need to do them all ...

Brion Vibber wrote:
> Add </li> end tags.
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Re: upgraded to 1.6.1, no html interpretation ?

Hiram Clawson
Yes, all sections had to have the closing </li>

Hiram Clawson wrote:
> I just tried that in one of the sections.  Didn't help for that
> section, maybe I need to do them all ...
>
> Brion Vibber wrote:
>> Add </li> end tags.
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