Changes to expired accounts web hosting

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Changes to expired accounts web hosting

River Tarnell-7
Hi,

In the past, when an account was expired, it was still possible to access
its public_html.  This has now changed.  Any HTTP requests to an expired
account will return an error page indicating that the account has expired.

The files in public_html are not deleted, and will become accessible again
if the account is ever un-expired.

   - river.

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Eusebius-3
Hi,

River Tarnell a écrit :
> In the past, when an account was expired, it was still possible to access
> its public_html.  This has now changed.  Any HTTP requests to an expired
> account will return an error page indicating that the account has expired.

The "gallery" tool integrated into WM Commons is now unavailable, I
assume it is a direct consequence of this change.
<http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/Gallery.php?wikifam=commons.wikimedia.org&img_user_text=Eusebius>

Is there a way to make it work again, by reactivating the host account
or moving the tool on someone else's account (and modifying the relevant
config on Commons)?
I don't see it as a vital tool, but I'm sure many users (and admins)
find it useful.

Regards,
Eusebius


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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

River Tarnell-7
Eusebius:
> The "gallery" tool integrated into WM Commons is now unavailable, I
> assume it is a direct consequence of this change.

Yes, but unintentional.  This should be fixed now.

     - river.

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Nikola Smolenski-2
River Tarnell wrote:
> Eusebius:
>> The "gallery" tool integrated into WM Commons is now unavailable, I
>> assume it is a direct consequence of this change.
>
> Yes, but unintentional.  This should be fixed now.

CheckUsage, at least, doesn't work.
http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/CheckUsage.php

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

mike.lifeguard
In reply to this post by River Tarnell-7
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On 10-02-04 08:46 AM, River Tarnell wrote:
> In the past, when an account was expired, it was still possible to access
> its public_html.  This has now changed.  Any HTTP requests to an expired
> account will return an error page indicating that the account has expired.
>
> The files in public_html are not deleted, and will become accessible again
> if the account is ever un-expired.

In the past, when people disappeared, their tools would (maybe) keep
working. Now that we *know* they will stop working once the account is
expired, do we know how requests for sourcecode for a tool will be
handled, in case someone wants to revive it?

And this is another reason multi-maintainer accounts are superior! Use them!

- -Mike
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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

River Tarnell-7
Mike.lifeguard:
> In the past, when people disappeared, their tools would (maybe) keep
> working. Now that we *know* they will stop working once the account is
> expired, do we know how requests for sourcecode for a tool will be
> handled, in case someone wants to revive it?

Currently we don't have a good policy for this.  Many (most?) tools have no
copyright header or license, which makes it difficult to distribute them.  
There have been some proposals in the past, like assuming tools without
licenses will use a particular license, but I'm not too fond of that.

The solution I like best is to require that all tools be MMTs, but I imagine
some users would object to that ;-)

This is probably something that WM-DE needs to create a policy for.

     - river.

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Daniel Schwen-2
One solution would be to make free licensing a prerequisite to
obtaining a toolserver account.
And then make it mandatory to make all source-code world readable
(minus config files containing passwords of course).

> Currently we don't have a good policy for this.  Many (most?) tools have no
> copyright header or license, which makes it difficult to distribute them.

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Platonides
In reply to this post by River Tarnell-7
River Tarnell wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In the past, when an account was expired, it was still possible to access
> its public_html.  This has now changed.  Any HTTP requests to an expired
> account will return an error page indicating that the account has expired.
>
> The files in public_html are not deleted, and will become accessible again
> if the account is ever un-expired.
>
>    - river.

It doesn't seem to have changed. gmaxwell account expired time ago.
However, its files can still be accessed
http://toolserver.org/~gmaxwell/election_analysis/2008/GRAPH_3_totals.png

Not that i'm complaining about that since I am still using
http://toolserver.org/~gmaxwell/cgi-bin/deletedimage.py despite it's
only half-working... Any takers?

*Gregory Maxwell hasn't "disappeared" so don't be afraid just for
licensing issues. ;)

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

River Tarnell-7
Platonides:
> It doesn't seem to have changed. gmaxwell account expired time ago.
> However, its files can still be accessed
> http://toolserver.org/~gmaxwell/election_analysis/2008/GRAPH_3_totals.png

# acctexp gmaxwell
The account "gmaxwell" will expire on Tuesday, 01 June 2010.

    - river.

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Platonides
River Tarnell wrote:
> Platonides:
>> It doesn't seem to have changed. gmaxwell account expired time ago.
>> However, its files can still be accessed
>> http://toolserver.org/~gmaxwell/election_analysis/2008/GRAPH_3_totals.png
>
> # acctexp gmaxwell
> The account "gmaxwell" will expire on Tuesday, 01 June 2010.
>
>     - river.

He must have reenabled it.
*goes to bug him*

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

mike.lifeguard
In reply to this post by River Tarnell-7
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On 10-02-04 12:24 PM, River Tarnell wrote:
> Many (most?) tools have no
> copyright header or license, which makes it difficult to distribute them.  
> There have been some proposals in the past, like assuming tools without
> licenses will use a particular license, but I'm not too fond of that.

We could require that users freely license their code - then you would
know at least that the four freedoms apply and redistributing it
wouldn't be so hairy. But of course, one is supposed to know precisely
/which/ free license is used...

- -Mike
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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Bryan Tong Minh
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Mike.lifeguard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> But of course, one is supposed to know precisely
> /which/ free license is used...
>
Choose the most restrictive (AGPL3 for example). Then users themselves
can also choose to release them under a more free license.

There might be some legal caveats though. Can you force users to
release their work under a certain license by requiring that in the
TOS? Can you change the TOS for existing users to force them to
release new works under a certain license? And can you force users to
retroactively license previously created works by changing that in the
TOS? I would presume that 1) and 2) are possible, but I doubt 3).
Ianal though.


Bryan

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Jesse (Pathoschild)
In reply to this post by mike.lifeguard
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Mike.lifeguard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> We could require that users freely license their code - then you would
> know at least that the four freedoms apply and redistributing it
> wouldn't be so hairy.

I don't think this is a good idea. Most of my tools are freely
licensed and open-source, as you can see in the footer at
<http://toolserver.org/~pathoschild/stalktoy/>, but there are a few
tools I do not want to publish the source code for. Synchbot is a good
example; it registers an account on every wiki in two minutes (faster
with changes), which I wouldn't want in the hands of our crosswiki
attack username vandals.

It's fine to recommend free licensing and open source, but we should
have the option not to for such cases.

--
Yours cordially,
Jesse (Pathoschild)

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

mike.lifeguard
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On 10-02-04 03:07 PM, Jesse (Pathoschild) wrote:
> Synchbot registers an account on every wiki in two minutes (faster
> with changes), which I wouldn't want in the hands of our crosswiki
> attack username vandals.

I didn't think you ran that from the toolserver, since that bot requires
the user's login data.

Regardless, keep in mind that even if the code is freely licensed, there
is no requirement for you to distribute it. Simply don't publish the code.

But now we get into questions of how to know which code should be
published and which shouldn't be if the author is gone... Do we simply
assume it can be redistributed safely unless there's a note in the
header? I have a headache, I leave the pondering on this to others

- -Mike
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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

annabel-3
Well ... imho, the only safe way to handle such issues is to check whether there is an open sourced license clause in the source code.  Only then you can safely use code after an account is expired.

I consider all my work as published under GPLv3, although not everywhere I included the license clause (I should definitely make work of it).


Regards
Annabel


----- Original Message ----
From: Mike.lifeguard <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 8:14:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Toolserver-l] Changes to expired accounts web hosting

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On 10-02-04 03:07 PM, Jesse (Pathoschild) wrote:
> Synchbot registers an account on every wiki in two minutes (faster
> with changes), which I wouldn't want in the hands of our crosswiki
> attack username vandals.

I didn't think you ran that from the toolserver, since that bot requires
the user's login data.

Regardless, keep in mind that even if the code is freely licensed, there
is no requirement for you to distribute it. Simply don't publish the code.

But now we get into questions of how to know which code should be
published and which shouldn't be if the author is gone... Do we simply
assume it can be redistributed safely unless there's a note in the
header? I have a headache, I leave the pondering on this to others

- -Mike
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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Nikola Smolenski-2
In reply to this post by mike.lifeguard
Дана Thursday 04 February 2010 20:14:09 Mike.lifeguard написа:
> But now we get into questions of how to know which code should be
> published and which shouldn't be if the author is gone... Do we simply
> assume it can be redistributed safely unless there's a note in the
> header? I have a headache, I leave the pondering on this to others

I see a difference between publicly accessible and inaccessible code. Free
license might be required for publicly accessible code, and other code might
remain fully copyrighted.

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

DaB.-2
In reply to this post by River Tarnell-7
Hello
At Thursday 04 February 2010 21:29:52 DaB. wrote:

> Mike.lifeguard:
> > In the past, when people disappeared, their tools would (maybe) keep
> > working. Now that we know they will stop working once the account is
> > expired, do we know how requests for sourcecode for a tool will be
> > handled, in case someone wants to revive it?
>
> Currently we don't have a good policy for this.  Many (most?) tools have
>  no  copyright header or license, which makes it difficult to distribute
>  them. There have been some proposals in the past, like assuming tools
>  without licenses will use a particular license, but I'm not too fond of
>  that.
>
> The solution I like best is to require that all tools be MMTs, but I
>  imagine  some users would object to that ;-)
>
> This is probably something that WM-DE needs to create a policy for.
I requested such a policy (with a draft (even a english one)) more then 6
months ago. Maybe now if some important tools will vanish, WM-DE will start to
think about it.

Added Tim who is responsible for technical-questions.

Sincerly,
DaB.

--
wp-blog.de

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Kolossos-2
In reply to this post by River Tarnell-7
I like the idea of Daniel Schwen. We could learn a lot if we could look
into the scripts of the other users and could reuse parts of it.
Every editor on wikipedia publish each content under free licences, so
why should this be on toolserver not so?
I wouldn't publish all scripts to the world but they should be readable
for all users with a toolserver account.

So I would like to ask: Is somebody against this way? And what are the
reason?

So than we should ask at the next expired account mail which free
license everybody like and ok.

Greetings Kolossos



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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Titoxd@Wikimedia
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Tim Alder <[hidden email]> wrote:
So than we should ask at the next expired account mail which free
license everybody like and ok.
 
Maybe I didn't understand you properly, but wouldn't it be better to make a list of acceptable licenses, instead of a single license? 

Titoxd.

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Re: Changes to expired accounts web hosting

Daniel Schwen-2
> Maybe I didn't understand you properly, but wouldn't it be better to make a
> list of acceptable licenses, instead of a single license?

Those are minor details. And I would dare guessing that for most of
the users it would make pretty much zero difference which free license
(FSF approved) the choose for their projects.
P.S.: by making source world-readable I was referring to unix
permissions, which would of course only have an effect for people with
toolserver accounts.

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