Code of Conduct

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Code of Conduct

Steinsplitter Wiki
Hello,

I am not sure where to ask, thus i write here. Sorry if this is the wrong place!
I noticed that a Code of Conduct for Phabricator is getting developed. Cool to see that people are creating such a policy, it is standard yet in big other projects. :-)

Just a few thoughts:
Unfortunately, the whole Code of Conduct Voting hasn't been widely announced (just on phabricator). There are a lot users which are using phab just once at year. Such a important decision should be widely announced imho. I mainly see participation just from  a very closed group.

Last but not least: I am not happy at all that me comment has been strike from  https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Code_of_Conduct/Draft&diff=2247995&oldid=2247822 by Matt Flaschen (WMF). Looks like it is no longer allowed to comment over there, thus i write here.

:-)

Regards,
Steinsplitter


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Re: Code of Conduct

Gergo Tisza
On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 4:07 AM, Steinsplitter Wiki <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Unfortunately, the whole Code of Conduct Voting hasn't been widely
> announced (just on phabricator).


By my count, Matt has sent over twenty announcements about it to this list
(and quite a few others) over the course of the last thirteen months.
The specific section you have commented on has been announced on July 26:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2016-July/086151.html
and then again on August 24:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2016-August/086357.html

See also the earlier discussion about where announcements should be made:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_Conduct/Draft#Wider_participation.2C_still


> I mainly see participation just from  a very closed group.
>

I don't think "closed" is a reasonable word to use there. Participation is
mainly from a small, self-selected group of people who chose to care. Most
discussions work like that. Compare the number of people who were involved
in defining Commons copyright policy to the number of people who upload
images, or the number of people who where involved in the discussion of the
(then) new Wikimedia-wide terms of content to the number of people who use
the site...

Last but not least: I am not happy at all that me comment has been strike
> from  https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Code_of_Con
> duct/Draft&diff=2247995&oldid=2247822 by Matt Flaschen (WMF). Looks like
> it is no longer allowed to comment over there, thus i write here.
>

According to the current draft, there is an amendment process every three
months where details of the code of conduct can be rediscussed; I would
recommend aiming for that.

(Also, in my personal opinion, your comment might have been received more
kindly if it contained anything substantive, but it was just +1 to an
IDONTLIKEIT <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:I_just_don%27t_like_it>
comment.
Those tend not to be helpful in a consensus-building process.)
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Re: Code of Conduct

Matthew Flaschen-2
In reply to this post by Steinsplitter Wiki
On 09/28/2016 07:07 AM, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
> Last but not least: I am not happy at all that me comment has been
> strike from
> https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Code_of_Conduct/Draft&diff=2247995&oldid=2247822
> by Matt Flaschen (WMF). Looks like it is no longer allowed to comment
> over there, thus i write here.

It had nothing to do with who made the comment, or your views on the
section.

Rather, the issue is that you were taking a position in a discussion
that was closed two weeks ago.  That could confuse people reviewing the
discussion.

Matt Flaschen

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Re: Code of Conduct

Andre Klapper-2
In reply to this post by Steinsplitter Wiki
On Wed, 2016-09-28 at 11:07 +0000, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
> I noticed that a Code of Conduct for Phabricator is getting
> developed. Cool to see that people are creating such a policy, it is
> standard yet in big other projects. :-)

A Code of Conduct for Wikimedia's technical spaces is being developed;
Phabricator is one of those technical spaces.

> Unfortunately, the whole Code of Conduct Voting hasn't been widely
> announced (just on phabricator). [...] Such a important decision
> should be widely announced imho. 

To reach more people like you, what would be the best place to post
messages so you'd see them?

andre
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http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

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Re: Code of Conduct

Steinsplitter Wiki


>>To reach more people like you, what would be the best place to post
messages so you'd see them?




Positing it at the village pumpes of the local project (similar to the tech news notifications), for example :-)
Or using limited CN banners (similar to the community survey banners).



--Steinsplitter

Von: Wikitech-l <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von Andre Klapper <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. September 2016 15:58
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] Code of Conduct
   
On Wed, 2016-09-28 at 11:07 +0000, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
> I noticed that a Code of Conduct for Phabricator is getting
> developed. Cool to see that people are creating such a policy, it is
> standard yet in big other projects. :-)

A Code of Conduct for Wikimedia's technical spaces is being developed;
Phabricator is one of those technical spaces.

> Unfortunately, the whole Code of Conduct Voting hasn't been widely
> announced (just on phabricator). [...] Such a important decision
> should be widely announced imho. 

To reach more people like you, what would be the best place to post
messages so you'd see them?

andre
--
Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

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Re: Code of Conduct

bawolff
On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:23 PM, Steinsplitter Wiki
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>>>To reach more people like you, what would be the best place to post
> messages so you'd see them?
>
>
>
>
> Positing it at the village pumpes of the local project (similar to the tech news notifications), for example :-)
> Or using limited CN banners (similar to the community survey banners).
>

Honestly, hasn't it been enough already with the code of conduct. The
number of announcements related to it has been staggering.

--
bawolff

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Re: Code of Conduct

Matthew Flaschen-2
In reply to this post by Steinsplitter Wiki
On 09/29/2016 11:23 AM, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
> Positing it at the village pumpes of the local project (similar to the tech news notifications), for example :-)
> Or using limited CN banners (similar to the community survey banners).

The local projects in this case are MediaWiki.org,
wikitech.wikimedia.org, Phabricator, Gerrit, the technical mailing
lists, the technical IRC channels, and Etherpad.

Activity in village pumps or elsewhere on other projects is not in scope.

I think most people active on these projects have already heard about
it.  In addition to notifying people on the mailing lists (probably the
primary way people heard about this) and Phabricator, we've also had
in-person events.

The sitenotice is something we started looking into
(https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:T53wjhp29sgu6jms), and should
finish following up on.

Matt

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Re: Code of Conduct

Strainu
2016-09-30 1:18 GMT+03:00 Matthew Flaschen <[hidden email]>:
>
> The local projects in this case are MediaWiki.org, wikitech.wikimedia.org,
> Phabricator, Gerrit, the technical mailing lists, the technical IRC
> channels, and Etherpad.
>
> Activity in village pumps or elsewhere on other projects is not in scope.


Agreed. Still, a mention in the Technical News now and then would have
been nice. The ArchCom's activity, which is likely of interest to
fewer people, is present in every edition of the news.

Strainu

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Re: Code of Conduct

Johan Jönsson-2
On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 1:46 AM, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2016-09-30 1:18 GMT+03:00 Matthew Flaschen <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> The local projects in this case are MediaWiki.org, wikitech.wikimedia.org,
>> Phabricator, Gerrit, the technical mailing lists, the technical IRC
>> channels, and Etherpad.
>>
>> Activity in village pumps or elsewhere on other projects is not in scope.
>
>
> Agreed. Still, a mention in the Technical News now and then would have
> been nice. The ArchCom's activity, which is likely of interest to
> fewer people, is present in every edition of the news.

I think that's because I've – mainly unconsciously, perhaps – been
seeing ArchCom meetings as a chance for technically advanced editors
to get a grasp of future changes to all the Wikimedia wikis, but the
Code of Conduct discussion as an internal process for the people
involved in the spaces mentioned by Matt. Important to spread
information about on Phabricator, MediaiWiki.org, technical mailing
lists et cetera but perhaps not suitable for a newsletter that is
mainly trying to explain technical changes to editors who are not
active on those platforms – the same way I wouldn't include an
invitation to take part of a process that's specific for English
Wikipedia.

(The ArchCom meetings are actually included in less than half the
issues – I'm counting seven mentions in the last twenty weeks – but
that doesn't take away Strainu's point: It's a technical item that's
regularly included.)

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Code of Conduct

John Mark Vandenberg
In reply to this post by Matthew Flaschen-2
I disagree that other projects are not in scope. WMF directs feedback on
its products to MediaWiki.org , so those other projects are a stakeholder,
and should be notified.
I am not advocating regular updates, but towards the end an announcement
would be good.

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 05:18 Matthew Flaschen, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 09/29/2016 11:23 AM, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
> > Positing it at the village pumpes of the local project (similar to the
> tech news notifications), for example :-)
> > Or using limited CN banners (similar to the community survey banners).
>
> The local projects in this case are MediaWiki.org,
> wikitech.wikimedia.org, Phabricator, Gerrit, the technical mailing
> lists, the technical IRC channels, and Etherpad.
>
> Activity in village pumps or elsewhere on other projects is not in scope.
>
> I think most people active on these projects have already heard about
> it.  In addition to notifying people on the mailing lists (probably the
> primary way people heard about this) and Phabricator, we've also had
> in-person events.
>
> The sitenotice is something we started looking into
> (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:T53wjhp29sgu6jms), and should
> finish following up on.
>
> Matt
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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