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Code of conduct

Matthew Flaschen-2
We're in the process of developing a code of conduct for technical
spaces.  This will be binding, and apply to all Wikimedia-related
technical spaces (including but not limited to MediaWiki.org,
Phabricator, Gerrit, technical IRC channels, and Etherpad).

Please participate at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_conduct_for_technical_spaces/Draft .
  Suggestions are welcome here or at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_conduct_for_technical_spaces/Draft 
.

Thanks,

Matt Flaschen

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Re: Code of conduct

Matthew Flaschen-2
On 08/06/2015 08:17 PM, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> We're in the process of developing a code of conduct for technical
> spaces.  This will be binding, and apply to all Wikimedia-related
> technical spaces (including but not limited to MediaWiki.org,
> Phabricator, Gerrit, technical IRC channels, and Etherpad).

I forgot to mention (but this is in the draft), it also applies to
physical spaces, including but not limited to hackathons.

Matt Flaschen


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Re: Code of conduct

Pine W
In reply to this post by Matthew Flaschen-2
Hi Matthew. If you intend this to be binding, I suggest that you coordinate
this with other work being done by WMF Community Advocacy and Legal. My
hope would be to have a uniform Friendly Space Policy that is a TOS
amendment and applies to all Wikimedia spaces.

A note on IRC channels: these are generally governed by Freenode with the
assistance of volunteers, and not WMF. I imagine that a WMF policy that has
community consensus would be enforced by IRC ops in Wikimedia-themed
channels. In general, I think ops are good at keeping the peace.

Regards,

Pine
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Re: Code of conduct

James Alexander-4
CA and legal are aware. While TOS or other more global polices are
certainly an option I'm not actually sure that's the right move 'at the
moment'. There is a lot of movement to look at options (which will include
wide community discussion) and may lead in a direction like that but, in
general, that is not a reason to delay implementation of processes like
this which can, in fact, assist with the decision making and the tweaking.
Once you've made a giant global policy tweaking it is really hard! Even
when everyone agrees it needs it (and therefore the policy ends up being
less and less enforced even where it should be). Yes a global policy would
have a wide consultation or RfC type discussion before being but that's not
the only thing we NEED here in order to get something that works. We need
to see it in ACTION and be able to see what works and what doesn't work.

James Alexander
Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur

On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Matthew. If you intend this to be binding, I suggest that you coordinate
> this with other work being done by WMF Community Advocacy and Legal. My
> hope would be to have a uniform Friendly Space Policy that is a TOS
> amendment and applies to all Wikimedia spaces.
>
> A note on IRC channels: these are generally governed by Freenode with the
> assistance of volunteers, and not WMF. I imagine that a WMF policy that has
> community consensus would be enforced by IRC ops in Wikimedia-themed
> channels. In general, I think ops are good at keeping the peace.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pine
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Code of conduct

Pine W
Hi James,

It makes sense to me to have ground-up development of guidelines, as is
happening in at least 3 venues that I know about. However, this also means
policy/guideline fragmentation. Also, AFAIK we don't have clear mechanisms
for deploying lightweight or limited-scope policies; anything with the word
"policy" in its title requires a lot of work to create or change. That's
good to a certain extent because consensus and widespread input hopefully
will improve the outcome of the policy development. On the other hand,
policy development takes time and patience.

Can I ask if there is any particular hurry to deploy a friendly space
policy specifically for technical spaces? My personal sense is that the
vast majority of technical discussions in most venues are civil, so I'm not
sensing a need for an exception for technical spaces that results in a
limited-scope policy being applied in advance of developing a global
friendly space policy.

Pine


On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 10:13 PM, James Alexander <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> CA and legal are aware. While TOS or other more global polices are
> certainly an option I'm not actually sure that's the right move 'at the
> moment'. There is a lot of movement to look at options (which will include
> wide community discussion) and may lead in a direction like that but, in
> general, that is not a reason to delay implementation of processes like
> this which can, in fact, assist with the decision making and the tweaking.
> Once you've made a giant global policy tweaking it is really hard! Even
> when everyone agrees it needs it (and therefore the policy ends up being
> less and less enforced even where it should be). Yes a global policy would
> have a wide consultation or RfC type discussion before being but that's not
> the only thing we NEED here in order to get something that works. We need
> to see it in ACTION and be able to see what works and what doesn't work.
>
> James Alexander
> Community Advocacy
> Wikimedia Foundation
> (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Matthew. If you intend this to be binding, I suggest that you
> coordinate
> > this with other work being done by WMF Community Advocacy and Legal. My
> > hope would be to have a uniform Friendly Space Policy that is a TOS
> > amendment and applies to all Wikimedia spaces.
> >
> > A note on IRC channels: these are generally governed by Freenode with the
> > assistance of volunteers, and not WMF. I imagine that a WMF policy that
> has
> > community consensus would be enforced by IRC ops in Wikimedia-themed
> > channels. In general, I think ops are good at keeping the peace.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pine
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Code of conduct

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Matthew Flaschen-2
Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>We're in the process of developing a code of conduct for technical
>spaces.  This will be binding, and apply to all Wikimedia-related
>technical spaces (including but not limited to MediaWiki.org,
>Phabricator, Gerrit, technical IRC channels, and Etherpad).

Who's we? This seems to be a pet issue of yours. I'm curious who else is
supportive of this initiative to enact a binding policy.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Engineering] Code of conduct

Frances Hocutt-2
In reply to this post by Matthew Flaschen-2
I was also at the Wikimania session where we worked on this draft. I
strongly support this effort. Best practices for codes of conduct include
clearly defined consequences for breaches, as well as named behaviors that
are unacceptable (as not everyone shares the same "common sense", and
people interested in behaving badly tend to rules-lawyer as well). Our
Phabricator etiquette is lacking both of these, and it does not cover the
rest of our technical spaces. An effective code of conduct has been shown
to be effective at bringing people from underrepresented groups--and their
contributions!--to events and projects. Screening technical contributors by
their willingness to take a risk of poor treatment is a terrible idea if we
want to get as many good contributions as we can.

-Frances

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Oliver Keyes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you for drafting this up, Matt. Who's "we" here?
>
> On 6 August 2015 at 20:19, Matthew Flaschen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > On 08/06/2015 08:17 PM, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> >>
> >> We're in the process of developing a code of conduct for technical
> >> spaces.  This will be binding, and apply to all Wikimedia-related
> >> technical spaces (including but not limited to MediaWiki.org,
> >> Phabricator, Gerrit, technical IRC channels, and Etherpad).
> >
> >
> > I forgot to mention (but this is in the draft), it also applies to
> physical
> > spaces, including but not limited to hackathons.
> >
> >
> > Matt Flaschen
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Engineering mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/engineering
>
>
>
> --
> Oliver Keyes
> Count Logula
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> _______________________________________________
> Engineering mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/engineering
>
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Re: [Engineering] Code of conduct

Ryan Kaldari-2
The idea for this was presented at Wikimania where it received a very
positive reception. Most of what I was going to say about it has already
been covered by Frances, so I'll just add that I support it as well.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Oliver Keyes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Excellent! I'm a strong supporter too, although I think it should be
> (as you say) very explicit about the consequences, the processes and
> the types of behaviour that are inappropriate - I'd previously added
> some commentary on the talk page that pointed to a particularly
> detailed CoC I like (it's the jQuery one; gnarf drafts good stuff).
>
> Thanks again to Matt and Frances and everyone else for kicking this
> off; this is something we desperately need.
>
> (Kudos specifically for handling Tim L's comment so nicely)
>
> On 7 August 2015 at 12:57, Frances Hocutt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I was also at the Wikimania session where we worked on this draft. I
> > strongly support this effort. Best practices for codes of conduct include
> > clearly defined consequences for breaches, as well as named behaviors
> that
> > are unacceptable (as not everyone shares the same "common sense", and
> people
> > interested in behaving badly tend to rules-lawyer as well). Our
> Phabricator
> > etiquette is lacking both of these, and it does not cover the rest of our
> > technical spaces. An effective code of conduct has been shown to be
> > effective at bringing people from underrepresented groups--and their
> > contributions!--to events and projects. Screening technical contributors
> by
> > their willingness to take a risk of poor treatment is a terrible idea if
> we
> > want to get as many good contributions as we can.
> >
> > -Frances
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Oliver Keyes <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thank you for drafting this up, Matt. Who's "we" here?
> >>
> >> On 6 August 2015 at 20:19, Matthew Flaschen <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > On 08/06/2015 08:17 PM, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> We're in the process of developing a code of conduct for technical
> >> >> spaces.  This will be binding, and apply to all Wikimedia-related
> >> >> technical spaces (including but not limited to MediaWiki.org,
> >> >> Phabricator, Gerrit, technical IRC channels, and Etherpad).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I forgot to mention (but this is in the draft), it also applies to
> >> > physical
> >> > spaces, including but not limited to hackathons.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Matt Flaschen
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Engineering mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/engineering
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Oliver Keyes
> >> Count Logula
> >> Wikimedia Foundation
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Engineering mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/engineering
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Oliver Keyes
> Count Logula
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> _______________________________________________
> Engineering mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/engineering
>
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Re: Code of conduct

Steven Walling
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 7:32 AM MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> >We're in the process of developing a code of conduct for technical
> >spaces.  This will be binding, and apply to all Wikimedia-related
> >technical spaces (including but not limited to MediaWiki.org,
> >Phabricator, Gerrit, technical IRC channels, and Etherpad).
>
> Who's we? This seems to be a pet issue of yours. I'm curious who else is
> supportive of this initiative to enact a binding policy.
>
> MZMcBride
>

What kind of standards for behavior we want and think are acceptable is a
core concern of everyone in the Wikimedia and MediaWiki technical
communities.

This kind of personally-directed and demeaning feedback ("This seems to be
a pet issue of yours") is, perhaps ironically, precisely an example of why
it would improve interaction in technical spaces to have some clearer
ground rules.


>
>
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: Code of conduct

Isarra Yos
I'm curious who all 'we' is as well.

On 07/08/15 17:29, Steven Walling wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 7:32 AM MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>>> We're in the process of developing a code of conduct for technical
>>> spaces.  This will be binding, and apply to all Wikimedia-related
>>> technical spaces (including but not limited to MediaWiki.org,
>>> Phabricator, Gerrit, technical IRC channels, and Etherpad).
>> Who's we? This seems to be a pet issue of yours. I'm curious who else is
>> supportive of this initiative to enact a binding policy.
>>
>> MZMcBride
>>
> What kind of standards for behavior we want and think are acceptable is a
> core concern of everyone in the Wikimedia and MediaWiki technical
> communities.
>
> This kind of personally-directed and demeaning feedback ("This seems to be
> a pet issue of yours") is, perhaps ironically, precisely an example of why
> it would improve interaction in technical spaces to have some clearer
> ground rules.
>
>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


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Re: [Engineering] Code of conduct

Frances Hocutt-2
In reply to this post by Frances Hocutt-2
On "why is this necessary":

Earlier this year, Nick Coghlan wrote an excellent blog post on why he
considers fighting abuse in open source communities (Linux, in particular)
key to getting the best contributions and making his projects the strongest
they can be. A quote:

"Instead, what I do care about, passionately, is *helping the best ideas
win* (where I include "feasible" as part of my definition of "best"). Not
the "best ideas from people willing to tolerate extensive personal abuse".
The best ideas anyone is willing to share with me, period. And I won't hear
those ideas unless I help create environments where all participants are
willing to speak up, not just those that are prepared to accept a
blistering verbal barrage from a powerful authority figure as a possible
consequence of attempting to participate."

The whole post is worth a read:
http://www.curiousefficiency.org/posts/2015/01/abuse-is-not-ok.html

Wikitech is not LKML, but a new contributor isn't going to know that (and
still, they can look through the archives and find personal attacks!). A
CoC is one way that we communicate that that's not how we act, and that's
not how we tolerate other people acting.

-Frances

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Frances Hocutt <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I was also at the Wikimania session where we worked on this draft. I
> strongly support this effort. Best practices for codes of conduct include
> clearly defined consequences for breaches, as well as named behaviors that
> are unacceptable (as not everyone shares the same "common sense", and
> people interested in behaving badly tend to rules-lawyer as well). Our
> Phabricator etiquette is lacking both of these, and it does not cover the
> rest of our technical spaces. An effective code of conduct has been shown
> to be effective at bringing people from underrepresented groups--and their
> contributions!--to events and projects. Screening technical contributors by
> their willingness to take a risk of poor treatment is a terrible idea if we
> want to get as many good contributions as we can.
>
> -Frances
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Oliver Keyes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for drafting this up, Matt. Who's "we" here?
>>
>> On 6 August 2015 at 20:19, Matthew Flaschen <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On 08/06/2015 08:17 PM, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>> >>
>> >> We're in the process of developing a code of conduct for technical
>> >> spaces.  This will be binding, and apply to all Wikimedia-related
>> >> technical spaces (including but not limited to MediaWiki.org,
>> >> Phabricator, Gerrit, technical IRC channels, and Etherpad).
>> >
>> >
>> > I forgot to mention (but this is in the draft), it also applies to
>> physical
>> > spaces, including but not limited to hackathons.
>> >
>> >
>> > Matt Flaschen
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Engineering mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/engineering
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Oliver Keyes
>> Count Logula
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Engineering mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/engineering
>>
>
>
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Re: [Engineering] Code of conduct

Stephen Niedzielski
  I'm not big on rules but I am big on culture. The Internet causes an
unusual phenomenon in people to miscommunicate and in turn say things they
don't really mean because they feel attacked. I genuinely hope efforts like
this, though only a single page of decency in print form, will be taken to
heart by every individual and help make a community we're all proud and
happy to be a part of.


--stephen

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Frances Hocutt <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On "why is this necessary":
>
> Earlier this year, Nick Coghlan wrote an excellent blog post on why he
> considers fighting abuse in open source communities (Linux, in particular)
> key to getting the best contributions and making his projects the strongest
> they can be. A quote:
>
> "Instead, what I do care about, passionately, is *helping the best ideas
> win* (where I include "feasible" as part of my definition of "best"). Not
> the "best ideas from people willing to tolerate extensive personal abuse".
> The best ideas anyone is willing to share with me, period. And I won't hear
> those ideas unless I help create environments where all participants are
> willing to speak up, not just those that are prepared to accept a
> blistering verbal barrage from a powerful authority figure as a possible
> consequence of attempting to participate."
>
> The whole post is worth a read:
> http://www.curiousefficiency.org/posts/2015/01/abuse-is-not-ok.html
>
> Wikitech is not LKML, but a new contributor isn't going to know that (and
> still, they can look through the archives and find personal attacks!). A
> CoC is one way that we communicate that that's not how we act, and that's
> not how we tolerate other people acting.
>
> -Frances
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Frances Hocutt <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I was also at the Wikimania session where we worked on this draft. I
> > strongly support this effort. Best practices for codes of conduct include
> > clearly defined consequences for breaches, as well as named behaviors
> that
> > are unacceptable (as not everyone shares the same "common sense", and
> > people interested in behaving badly tend to rules-lawyer as well). Our
> > Phabricator etiquette is lacking both of these, and it does not cover the
> > rest of our technical spaces. An effective code of conduct has been shown
> > to be effective at bringing people from underrepresented groups--and
> their
> > contributions!--to events and projects. Screening technical contributors
> by
> > their willingness to take a risk of poor treatment is a terrible idea if
> we
> > want to get as many good contributions as we can.
> >
> > -Frances
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Oliver Keyes <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you for drafting this up, Matt. Who's "we" here?
> >>
> >> On 6 August 2015 at 20:19, Matthew Flaschen <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > On 08/06/2015 08:17 PM, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> We're in the process of developing a code of conduct for technical
> >> >> spaces.  This will be binding, and apply to all Wikimedia-related
> >> >> technical spaces (including but not limited to MediaWiki.org,
> >> >> Phabricator, Gerrit, technical IRC channels, and Etherpad).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I forgot to mention (but this is in the draft), it also applies to
> >> physical
> >> > spaces, including but not limited to hackathons.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Matt Flaschen
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Engineering mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/engineering
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Oliver Keyes
> >> Count Logula
> >> Wikimedia Foundation
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Engineering mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/engineering
> >>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: [Engineering] Code of conduct

Matthew Flaschen-2
In reply to this post by Frances Hocutt-2
On 08/07/2015 03:49 PM, Frances Hocutt wrote:
> Wikitech is not LKML, but a new contributor isn't going to know that
> (and still, they can look through the archives and find personal
> attacks!). A CoC is one way that we communicate that that's not how we
> act, and that's not how we tolerate other people acting.

This is a good point (that in addition to dealing with specific
problems, it's also about making it clear how we do things in general).

Matt Flaschen


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Re: [Engineering] Code of conduct

Matthew Flaschen-2
In reply to this post by Matthew Flaschen-2
On 08/07/2015 11:43 AM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
> Thank you for drafting this up, Matt. Who's "we" here?

In that case, "we" meant the Wikimedia technical community (in
collaboration with other related groups at WMF).  Several people have
already participated, but we need more. See e.g.
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T90908

Thanks,

Matt Flaschen

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Re: Code of conduct

Matthew Flaschen-2
In reply to this post by Pine W
On 08/07/2015 01:42 AM, Pine W wrote:
> Hi James,
>
> It makes sense to me to have ground-up development of guidelines, as is
> happening in at least 3 venues that I know about. However, this also means
> policy/guideline fragmentation.

In this case, I think a policy is more appropriate than a guideline.
That way, no one can misunderstand and think they don't have to follow it.

> Can I ask if there is any particular hurry to deploy a friendly space
> policy specifically for technical spaces? My personal sense is that the
> vast majority of technical discussions in most venues are civil, so I'm not
> sensing a need for an exception for technical spaces that results in a
> limited-scope policy being applied in advance of developing a global
> friendly space policy.

I encourage people to work on a global policy (which would be more
complicated), but I don't think there's any need for the current work to
be delayed on that account.

Thanks,

Matt Flaschen

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Re: Code of conduct

Matthew Flaschen-2
In reply to this post by Pine W
On 08/06/2015 08:50 PM, Pine W wrote:
> A note on IRC channels: these are generally governed by Freenode with the
> assistance of volunteers, and not WMF. I imagine that a WMF policy that has
> community consensus would be enforced by IRC ops in Wikimedia-themed
> channels. In general, I think ops are good at keeping the peace.

Yes, final enforcement mechanisms may vary depending on location.  But I
want the initial reporting location to be the same regardless, for
simplicity.

Matt Flaschen


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Re: [Engineering] Code of conduct

Brian Wolff
In reply to this post by Matthew Flaschen-2
On 8/7/15, Matthew Flaschen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 08/07/2015 11:43 AM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
>> Thank you for drafting this up, Matt. Who's "we" here?
>
> In that case, "we" meant the Wikimedia technical community (in
> collaboration with other related groups at WMF).  Several people have
> already participated, but we need more. See e.g.
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T90908
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt Flaschen
>

To be honest, I don't like using "We" in that manner, unless the
Wikimedia technical community (For various definitions of that rather
ambiguous terms) has discussed the issue and come to agreement.

The "We" is clearly a group of people who met up at Wikimania and
thought this would be a good idea. Which is fine, as that's usually
how most good ideas start. But there's a large difference between the
Wikimedia community proposing something to ? vs a subset of the
community proposing the idea to the whole of the community.

--
bawolff

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Re: [Engineering] Code of conduct

Bartosz Dziewoński
Yeah, I'm with Brian. I consider myself a member of the Wikimedia  
technical community and I did not yet get an opportunity to participate in  
the process of developing this document (which appears to have been mostly  
offline at Wikimania).

--
Bartosz Dziewoński

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Re: [Engineering] Code of conduct

Moriel Schottlender
Isn't this the point of this email chain and talk page, though? To open
this up to the broader community for development...?

The idea was picked up and developed in wikimania and is now being proposed
as a starting point for development by the tech community on a broader
scale. Seems to allow for the involvement you're interested in.

I don't mean to be rude here at all, but it sounds like instead of
lamenting the fact people weren't involved, we can, in fact and in effect,
just get involved.

An I missing something?
On Aug 8, 2015 2:51 PM, "Bartosz Dziewoński" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yeah, I'm with Brian. I consider myself a member of the Wikimedia
> technical community and I did not yet get an opportunity to participate in
> the process of developing this document (which appears to have been mostly
> offline at Wikimania).
>
> --
> Bartosz Dziewoński
>
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: [Engineering] Code of conduct

Tyler Romeo
On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 2:43 AM, Moriel Schottlender <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> An I missing something?


When an employee of the WMF starts a new topic on the mailing list with the
words "we are" and "binding", it comes off with the wrong connotation,
especially considering the "we" was clarified to mean the "Wikimedia
technical community".

It sounds more like "you've already decided to do this" rather than "we
thought this might be a good idea and want everybody else's input". You
should naturally expect people to speak out against something when you make
it sound like their opinion has already been decided upon.

*-- *
*Tyler Romeo*
Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016
Major in Computer Science
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