Contributing as Wikimedia employees

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Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Quim Gil
Hi, is there a policy / recommendation about Wikimedia employees using
wikimedia.org addesses when contributing code and participating in
community activities as part of their paid work? Or has this topic been
discussed in the past?

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Quim

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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Chad
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Quim Gil <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi, is there a policy / recommendation about Wikimedia employees using
> wikimedia.org addesses when contributing code and participating in community
> activities as part of their paid work? Or has this topic been discussed in
> the past?
>

I don't know of any past discussions on it--nor do I know of any policy.
In practice, most people with an @wikimedia.org address tend to use it.
The one notable exception is people who were volunteers before
becoming staff, who may have a prior e-mail address they prefer to use.

-Chad

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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Antoine Musso-3
In reply to this post by Quim Gil
Le 02/11/12 21:36, Quim Gil a écrit :
> Hi, is there a policy / recommendation about Wikimedia employees using
> wikimedia.org addesses when contributing code and participating in
> community activities as part of their paid work? Or has this topic been
> discussed in the past?

I use a personal email dedicated to Wikimedia stuff, sounds to me I can
talk about anything this way without embarrassing the Wikimedia
Foundation for which I am a contractor.

The wikimedia.org I mostly use it for internal stuff and to write to WMF
employees and contractors.



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Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Petr Bena
I think there is no need to make any walls between community and wmf.
Main difference between volunteers and wmf employees is that they are
paid for they work. I see no reason why someone should highlight that
fact by using wmf e-mail or (WMF) in SUL (it appears as "showing off"
to me more than anything useful) so it seems quite ok to me that they
are using personal e-mails and don't try to be more different from
volunteers.

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Antoine Musso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le 02/11/12 21:36, Quim Gil a écrit :
>> Hi, is there a policy / recommendation about Wikimedia employees using
>> wikimedia.org addesses when contributing code and participating in
>> community activities as part of their paid work? Or has this topic been
>> discussed in the past?
>
> I use a personal email dedicated to Wikimedia stuff, sounds to me I can
> talk about anything this way without embarrassing the Wikimedia
> Foundation for which I am a contractor.
>
> The wikimedia.org I mostly use it for internal stuff and to write to WMF
> employees and contractors.
>
>
>
> --
> Antoine "hashar" Musso
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Leslie Carr
I don't think that using my Wikimedia address (like I am now) is meant
to create a wall.  I just use it because this is my job and I like to
keep my email lives separate.  The (WMF) notation is used by employees
to notate that they are an employee and usually used for more
"official" business. The convention is to use a separate account for
personal purposes (like normal editing, instead of something
official).

If you think this is a major problem, these questions are more
appropriate for wikimedia-l as they are not technical and instead
policy :)

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Petr Bena <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think there is no need to make any walls between community and wmf.
> Main difference between volunteers and wmf employees is that they are
> paid for they work. I see no reason why someone should highlight that
> fact by using wmf e-mail or (WMF) in SUL (it appears as "showing off"
> to me more than anything useful) so it seems quite ok to me that they
> are using personal e-mails and don't try to be more different from
> volunteers.
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Antoine Musso <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Le 02/11/12 21:36, Quim Gil a écrit :
>>> Hi, is there a policy / recommendation about Wikimedia employees using
>>> wikimedia.org addesses when contributing code and participating in
>>> community activities as part of their paid work? Or has this topic been
>>> discussed in the past?
>>
>> I use a personal email dedicated to Wikimedia stuff, sounds to me I can
>> talk about anything this way without embarrassing the Wikimedia
>> Foundation for which I am a contractor.
>>
>> The wikimedia.org I mostly use it for internal stuff and to write to WMF
>> employees and contractors.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Antoine "hashar" Musso
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



--
Leslie Carr
Wikimedia Foundation
AS 14907, 43821
http://as14907.peeringdb.com/

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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Harry Burt-2
In reply to this post by Quim Gil
I believe I was told that, for the purposes of (say) Gerrit, contractors
(and potentially full employees) were advised to use personal email
addresses in order to provide continuity of their account once they had
ceased to be contractors/employees. It did of course make my code review
analysis -- which required users to be labelled either as staff or
non-staff -- a little tricky.

Harry

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Harry Burt
User:Jarry1250
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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Quim Gil
On 11/03/2012 09:47 AM, Harry Burt wrote:
> I believe I was told that, for the purposes of (say) Gerrit, contractors
> (and potentially full employees) were advised to use personal email
> addresses in order to provide continuity of their account once they had
> ceased to be contractors/employees.

?

Gerrit and GitHub allow you to add more than one email address to an
account, isn't it?

I thought it was a good practice to contribute code from the email
address of the employer that is paying you for doing that work. It
leaves things a lot cleaner for the contributor, the employer and the
OSS project in terms of attribution, legal & IP. With +5M LOC around,
long term projects and continuous developer hiring, I wonder whether a
bit of consistency wouldn't be useful.

It also helps the developer being clear on what contributions are done
as part of his/her job and which ones are done as purely personal projects.

When contributing to upstream projects (in this case non-MediaWiki
projects), using the mediawiki.org address also helps to make clearer
the contributions of the Wikimedia orgs as such. You ave probably found
yourselves in the situation of finding that some redhat.com, hp.com or
whatever.com/org dude is committing a patch in some upstream project,
and how good that feels. It can't be bad to generate this type of
impression to developers and contributors of open source projects out there.

> It did of course make my code review
> analysis -- which required users to be labelled either as staff or
> non-staff -- a little tricky.

That too, and we have now this situation with the metrics reports. We
get many times the question of WMF contributions compared to
independents / 3rd parties and as it is now this is very difficult to
calculate.

Anyway, I don't have an agenda here.  :) My main point especially on
email addresses in code contributions is simply whether the WMF has
considered or agreed on a guideline.

--
Quim

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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Quim Gil
In reply to this post by Leslie Carr
On 11/03/2012 08:53 AM, Leslie Carr wrote:
> If you think this is a major problem, these questions are more
> appropriate for wikimedia-l as they are not technical and instead
> policy :)

Fair point. I have continued on the topic of email addresses in code
contributions, which is indeed a technical topic.

About the rest, let me just reply to the previous answers:

- Note that Chad and Antoine are saying different things. With the big
and still heavily growing Engineering team at WMF it would be useful to
have a recommendation for fresh & new fires. I bet even the oldtimers
and outsiders will be happier with some guideline in place.

- If there is a wall perceived between WMF employees and the rest then
that is a problem regardless of what email addresses people use or
avoid. Ubuntu/Canonical and Fedora/RedHat come to mind as good examples
of OSS projects where employees and non-employees collaborate and fight
;) regardless of the domain of your email address.

BUT overall I don't perceive such barrier here either.
Wikimedia-MediaWiki feel like a healthy community with the usual degrees
and side of collaboration, fun, noise and rants. But I agree with Leslie
that thee is a better place to discuss this, if needed. Let's continue
with the discussion of the code contributions since that one is really
on-topic here. Thanks!

--
Quim


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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Mark Holmquist-2
In reply to this post by Quim Gil
> When contributing to upstream projects (in this case non-MediaWiki
> projects), using the mediawiki.org address also helps to make clearer
> the contributions of the Wikimedia orgs as such. You ave probably found
> yourselves in the situation of finding that some redhat.com, hp.com or
> whatever.com/org dude is committing a patch in some upstream project,
> and how good that feels. It can't be bad to generate this type of
> impression to developers and contributors of open source projects out
> there.

For my part, though I consistently use my @member.fsf.org address, I
generally include some mention in either the commit message(s) or some
communication with the community that I'm working as an employee of the
WMF. I've made inroads with communities that way, and it appears to be
sufficient.

> That too, and we have now this situation with the metrics reports. We
> get many times the question of WMF contributions compared to
> independents / 3rd parties and as it is now this is very difficult to
> calculate.

Can I suggest asking HR for a CSV of employee names, to which you should
be able to easily add their email addresses (probably from the commit
logs)? It might take some time, but it's also relatively simple to watch
wikitech-l for new employee announcements and add them to the list.
Checking the CSV as part of your metrics script would then be pretty simple.

Like Quim, I don't intend to force policy here, I'm just trying to solve
the problems raised :)

(can we get some community insight, here, maybe?)

--
Mark Holmquist
Software Engineer, Wikimedia Foundation
[hidden email]
http://marktraceur.info

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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Petr Bena
I meant it's not a problem if someone doesn't use official mail :) not that
it is problem if someone does... if I was wmf employee I likely wouldn't
try to appear as someone else or someone "more" to rest of community. But
everyone has own preference here. It would be shame if people working for
wmf were forced to use only official accounts.


On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Mark Holmquist <[hidden email]>wrote:

> When contributing to upstream projects (in this case non-MediaWiki
>> projects), using the mediawiki.org address also helps to make clearer
>> the contributions of the Wikimedia orgs as such. You ave probably found
>> yourselves in the situation of finding that some redhat.com, hp.com or
>> whatever.com/org dude is committing a patch in some upstream project,
>> and how good that feels. It can't be bad to generate this type of
>> impression to developers and contributors of open source projects out
>> there.
>>
>
> For my part, though I consistently use my @member.fsf.org address, I
> generally include some mention in either the commit message(s) or some
> communication with the community that I'm working as an employee of the
> WMF. I've made inroads with communities that way, and it appears to be
> sufficient.
>
>
>  That too, and we have now this situation with the metrics reports. We
>> get many times the question of WMF contributions compared to
>> independents / 3rd parties and as it is now this is very difficult to
>> calculate.
>>
>
> Can I suggest asking HR for a CSV of employee names, to which you should
> be able to easily add their email addresses (probably from the commit
> logs)? It might take some time, but it's also relatively simple to watch
> wikitech-l for new employee announcements and add them to the list.
> Checking the CSV as part of your metrics script would then be pretty simple.
>
> Like Quim, I don't intend to force policy here, I'm just trying to solve
> the problems raised :)
>
> (can we get some community insight, here, maybe?)
>
> --
> Mark Holmquist
> Software Engineer, Wikimedia Foundation
> [hidden email]
> http://marktraceur.info
>
>
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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
In reply to this post by Quim Gil
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Quim Gil <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11/03/2012 09:47 AM, Harry Burt wrote:
>>
>> I believe I was told that, for the purposes of (say) Gerrit, contractors
>> (and potentially full employees) were advised to use personal email
>> addresses in order to provide continuity of their account once they had
>> ceased to be contractors/employees.
>
> ?
>
> Gerrit and GitHub allow you to add more than one email address to an
> account, isn't it?

It does, I just did this to add my new @wikimedia.org address. And
it's very easy to change addresses in bugzilla too, although when you
do it goes back and changes all your old comments too. And for the
mailing lists, it's not too bad to switch your subscription either
(although if you plan to post from multiple addresses to a
"subscribers only" list, you'd probably want to keep both addresses
subscribed).

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Re: Contributing as Wikimedia employees

Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
In reply to this post by Petr Bena
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Petr Bena <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I see no reason why someone should highlight that
> fact by using wmf e-mail or (WMF) in SUL (it appears as "showing off"
> to me more than anything useful)

My impression of the "(WMF)" accounts in SUL was always that the
separation is for legal CYA reasons, to make it one step clearer when
someone was making an edit as an employee versus as a "normal" editor.
This went along with the disclaimers I saw on the user pages of most
employees' accounts (personal and official) that explicitly point out
this distinction.

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