Do we have a universal font in production?

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Do we have a universal font in production?

Yuri Astrakhan-2
I'm trying to render an image which uses characters from all of the
languages supported by WP. Is there a single font deployed on production
servers that include all scripts? Any simple font would do, preferably TTF
arial-style.
Thanks!
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Re: Do we have a universal font in production?

Federico Leva (Nemo)
No such font exists. You can try DejaVu Sans or FreeSerif for best coverage.

Nemo

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Re: Do we have a universal font in production?

Yuri Astrakhan-2
Thanks Federico, I used /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-dejavu/DejaVuSans.ttf
but didn't see FreeSerif. DejaVuSans doesn't seem to render Hindi. Is there
a font for that?


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:12 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> No such font exists. You can try DejaVu Sans or FreeSerif for best
> coverage.
>
> Nemo
>
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Re: Do we have a universal font in production?

Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Yuri Astrakhan <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Thanks Federico, I used /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-dejavu/DejaVuSans.ttf
> but didn't see FreeSerif. DejaVuSans doesn't seem to render Hindi. Is there
> a font for that?
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:12 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > No such font exists. You can try DejaVu Sans or FreeSerif for best
> > coverage.
> >
> > Nemo
> >
>


For Devanagari*,* my system is using Gargi
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Gargi_fonts

For a slightly more complete list:
If I go to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias
and use web-inspector to list the fonts used on the page, in Firefox
Ubuntu, with a few non-stock fonts installed, I get:

TakaoPGothic
Lohit Bengali
Zawgyi-One
Meera
Pothana2000
Georgia
NanumGothic
Ubuntu
DejaVu Sans
Droid Sans Mono
Kedage Normal
gargi
Lohit Tamil
Rekha
Droid Sans Fallback
Free Serif
ori1Uni Medium
Free Sans
Khmer OS
Waree
DejaVu Sans
Saab
mry_KacstQurn
jomolhari
brahmi
Nuosu

And that results in all language names rendered correctly.
There's almost certainly overlap, so I'm not sure what the minimum set of
required fonts would be. Possibly ask
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages   or
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-i18n

HTH.
Quiddity
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Re: Do we have a universal font in production?

xiangquan xiao
In reply to this post by Yuri Astrakhan-2
Maybe you can try GNU Unifont.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Unifont
TTF format:http://www.lgm.cl/trabajos/unifont/index.en.html


Original Message
Sender:Yuri [hidden email]
Recipient:Wikimedia [hidden email]
Date:Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 05:33
Subject:[Wikitech-l] Do we have a universal font in production?


I'm trying to render an image which uses characters from all of the languages supported by WP. Is there a single font deployed on production servers that include all scripts? Any simple font would do, preferably TTF arial-style. Thanks! _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: Do we have a universal font in production?

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by Yuri Astrakhan-2
FreeSerif and even FreeSans have Devanagari for Hindi, but lack other
things. There are helpful coverage tables; a script exists that could be
adapted to produce some for other fonts.
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59983#c5

Nemo

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Re: Do we have a universal font in production?

Mark
In reply to this post by Federico Leva (Nemo)
On 7/30/14, 12:12 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
> No such font exists. You can try DejaVu Sans or FreeSerif for best coverage.

There's also a newish font from Google that has quite wide coverage:
https://code.google.com/p/noto/

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Re: Do we have a universal font in production?

C. Scott Ananian
In general, "one font to rule them all" is highly
discouraged/impractical as a means to achieve reasonable results in a
variety of world languages.  Indic fonts, for example, typically
contain complex shaping engines in bytecode -- it's just not practical
to try to write one engine for everything.  All of the "one font with
wide coverage" attempts that I have seen look okay for Latin
languages, but fail for the rest of the world.

<rant>...which is typically the opinion inadvertently expressed by
these "characters from every language" projects anyway.  Without real
knowledge of the rest of the world's languages and scripts, we get
something that shows that the creator valued the rest of the world
only for "looking exotic", and was not interested in true
understanding.</rant>

Most modern font systems have a mechanism to merge multiple fonts
under one virtual name as needed in order to get good coverage.  So
you don't need to find a find font to rule them all.
  --scott

ps. "Font synthesis" systems actually have a big problem in that parts
of the unicode character space are shared by different languages with
different rules for shaping and ligatures, etc.  So you really need to
explicitly annotate the language and then chose a font specific for
that *language*, not rely simply on codepoint.  (Unfortunately much of
the "foreign language" content in wikipedia (ie short texts which are
not in the main language of the wiki) is not explicitly annotated with
language information.)

pps. for those actually interested in getting the details of world
writing systems correct, I could use some help with the new OCG PDF
rendering backend, which just went live in production yesterday.  It
uses XeLaTeX, which actually does pay careful attention to Indic
shaping and ligatures, etc, but it is not a "modern system" as
described above in terms of synthesizing coverage from multiple fonts.
Patches would be helpful to make better guesses about the native
language of "foreign language" spans, which would then ensure an
appropriate font was used.

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Re: Do we have a universal font in production?

Ryan Kaldari-2
>I'm trying to render an image which uses characters from all of the
>languages supported by WP. Is there a single font deployed on production
>servers that include all scripts?

The Autonym font includes characters for all the languages supported by
MediaWiki, but only a small subset:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Universal_Language_Selector/AutonymFont

Ryan Kaldari


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:48 AM, C. Scott Ananian <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> In general, "one font to rule them all" is highly
> discouraged/impractical as a means to achieve reasonable results in a
> variety of world languages.  Indic fonts, for example, typically
> contain complex shaping engines in bytecode -- it's just not practical
> to try to write one engine for everything.  All of the "one font with
> wide coverage" attempts that I have seen look okay for Latin
> languages, but fail for the rest of the world.
>
> <rant>...which is typically the opinion inadvertently expressed by
> these "characters from every language" projects anyway.  Without real
> knowledge of the rest of the world's languages and scripts, we get
> something that shows that the creator valued the rest of the world
> only for "looking exotic", and was not interested in true
> understanding.</rant>
>
> Most modern font systems have a mechanism to merge multiple fonts
> under one virtual name as needed in order to get good coverage.  So
> you don't need to find a find font to rule them all.
>   --scott
>
> ps. "Font synthesis" systems actually have a big problem in that parts
> of the unicode character space are shared by different languages with
> different rules for shaping and ligatures, etc.  So you really need to
> explicitly annotate the language and then chose a font specific for
> that *language*, not rely simply on codepoint.  (Unfortunately much of
> the "foreign language" content in wikipedia (ie short texts which are
> not in the main language of the wiki) is not explicitly annotated with
> language information.)
>
> pps. for those actually interested in getting the details of world
> writing systems correct, I could use some help with the new OCG PDF
> rendering backend, which just went live in production yesterday.  It
> uses XeLaTeX, which actually does pay careful attention to Indic
> shaping and ligatures, etc, but it is not a "modern system" as
> described above in terms of synthesizing coverage from multiple fonts.
> Patches would be helpful to make better guesses about the native
> language of "foreign language" spans, which would then ensure an
> appropriate font was used.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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