Dream a little...

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Dream a little...

Jimmy Wales

I would like to gather from the community some examples of works you
would like to see made free, works that we are not doing a good job of
generating free replacements for, works that could in theory be
purchased and freed.

Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
like to see purchased and released under a free license?

Photos libraries? textbooks? newspaper archives? Be bold, be specific,
be general, brainstorm, have fun with it.

I was recently asked this question by someone who is potentially in a
position to make this happen, and he wanted to know what we need, what
we dream of, that we can't accomplish on our own, or that we would
expect to take a long time to accomplish on our own.

--Jimbo
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Re: Dream a little...

geni
On 10/15/06, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I would like to gather from the community some examples of works you
> would like to see made free, works that we are not doing a good job of
> generating free replacements for, works that could in theory be
> purchased and freed.
>
> Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
> copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
> like to see purchased and released under a free license?
>
> Photos libraries? textbooks? newspaper archives? Be bold, be specific,
> be general, brainstorm, have fun with it.
>

Maps, satellite pics, everything produced by the ESA, chem abs, single
screenshots of as many films and TV shows as possible.

> I was recently asked this question by someone who is potentially in a
> position to make this happen, and he wanted to know what we need, what
> we dream of, that we can't accomplish on our own, or that we would
> expect to take a long time to accomplish on our own.
>
> --Jimbo

I would tend towards the position that the money would be better spent
on digitalising stuff that was already in the public domain.

--
geni
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Re: Dream a little...

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
On 15/10/06, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
> copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
> like to see purchased and released under a free license?


Spend it on brib^Wcampaign contributions to get the US and then
WIPO-approved term of copyright shortened.


- d.
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Re: Dream a little...

David Monniaux-2
In reply to this post by geni
geni wrote:

>Maps, satellite pics, everything produced by the ESA
>
ESA's pictures at not a budget problem, but an institutional one. Feel
free to contact me in private for more details.


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Re: Dream a little...

Anthony DiPierro
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
On 10/15/06, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I would like to gather from the community some examples of works you
> would like to see made free, works that we are not doing a good job of
> generating free replacements for, works that could in theory be
> purchased and freed.
>
> Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
> copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
> like to see purchased and released under a free license?
>
> Photos libraries? textbooks? newspaper archives?

> Be bold,
*Wikimedia logos

> be specific,
*good OCR software
*good translation software
*good video editing software
*building codes and other "copyrighted laws"
*http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/index.cfm

> be general,
*software
*State government works
*photos of people (living and dead)
*maps and satellite photos
*childrens books
*fiction

> brainstorm,
*myspace
*Everything2
*YouTube
*usenet

> have fun with it.
*OSX

My top choice would be media-related software tools for which there
just aren't good free software alternatives (but there are good
non-free software tools out there).  OCR, translation, and video
editing are three areas I can think of.  Even $100 million isn't
enough to put more than a dent in the useful proprietary works out
there.

Anthony
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Re: Dream a little...

W. Guy Finley
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales

On Oct 15, 2006, at 10:27 AM, Jimmy Wales wrote:

>
> I would like to gather from the community some examples of works you
> would like to see made free, works that we are not doing a good job of
> generating free replacements for, works that could in theory be
> purchased and freed.
>
> Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
> copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
> like to see purchased and released under a free license?
>
> Photos libraries? textbooks? newspaper archives? Be bold, be specific,
> be general, brainstorm, have fun with it.
>
> I was recently asked this question by someone who is potentially in a
> position to make this happen, and he wanted to know what we need, what
> we dream of, that we can't accomplish on our own, or that we would
> expect to take a long time to accomplish on our own.
>
> --Jimbo
> _______________________________________________

Would use it to do a licensing deal with big image/content houses  
like AP or CORBIS.  That sum of money would talk to both of those  
organizations.

--Guy
(En Hiatus User:Wgfinley)
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Re: Dream a little...

Samuli Lintula
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:27:41 +0300, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would like to gather from the community some examples of works you
> would like to see made free, works that we are not doing a good job of
> generating free replacements for, works that could in theory be
> purchased and freed.

Images and video of important events and people of the 20th century.

--
Ystävällisin terveisin,
Samuli Lintula
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Re: Dream a little...

geni
In reply to this post by W. Guy Finley
On 10/15/06, W. Guy Finley <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Would use it to do a licensing deal with big image/content houses
> like AP or CORBIS.  That sum of money would talk to both of those
> organizations.

Since you would to buy them outright I doubt it.


--
geni
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Re: Dream a little...

W. Guy Finley
Ahhh, i'm remembering why I'm on hiatus.  Dream a little........so  
someone can come and piss on it.

I think if you go to AP or CORBIS with a hundred mill and say "hey,  
we want to work out a bulk licensing deal for copyright permissions"  
I'm certain something would get done.  Would it be every single thing  
they do with unlimited rights?  No.  Wold it be an enormous chunk of  
images we could sorely use?  Most definitely.

--Guy


On Oct 15, 2006, at 11:55 AM, geni wrote:

> On 10/15/06, W. Guy Finley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Would use it to do a licensing deal with big image/content houses
>> like AP or CORBIS.  That sum of money would talk to both of those
>> organizations.
>
> Since you would to buy them outright I doubt it.
>
>
> --
> geni
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l

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Re: Dream a little...

Jimmy Wales
Guy, please just try to avoid Geni's trolling.  I know it is hard, but
sometimes it is necessary in order to get anything done. :)

W. Guy Finley wrote:

> Ahhh, i'm remembering why I'm on hiatus.  Dream a little........so  
> someone can come and piss on it.
>
> I think if you go to AP or CORBIS with a hundred mill and say "hey,  
> we want to work out a bulk licensing deal for copyright permissions"  
> I'm certain something would get done.  Would it be every single thing  
> they do with unlimited rights?  No.  Wold it be an enormous chunk of  
> images we could sorely use?  Most definitely.
>
> --Guy
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2006, at 11:55 AM, geni wrote:
>
>> On 10/15/06, W. Guy Finley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Would use it to do a licensing deal with big image/content houses
>>> like AP or CORBIS.  That sum of money would talk to both of those
>>> organizations.
>> Since you would to buy them outright I doubt it.
>>
>>
>> --
>> geni
>> _______________________________________________
>> Commons-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>

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Re: Dream a little...

Flominator
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
 "Jimmy Wales" <[hidden email]> wrote on Sunday, October 15, 2006 5:27 PM:

> Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
> copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
> like to see purchased and released under a free license?

A beginning would be having a professional account at www.copyscape.com :)

Best regards,

Flo
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Re: Dream a little...

Stan Shebs-2
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
Jimmy Wales wrote:
> I would like to gather from the community some examples of works you
> would like to see made free, works that we are not doing a good job of
> generating free replacements for, works that could in theory be
> purchased and freed.
>
> Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
> copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
> like to see purchased and released under a free license?
>  
Scientists have a zillion valuable photographs that they're sitting on,
either out of lack of motivation or because they hope to use it in a
future publication, and they don't necessarily know about free
licensing. Hire somebody to work fulltime organizing volunteers to
contact these people, or call them personally. Place ads in professional
journals. Possibly offer nominal payment (call them "honoraria" :-) ) in
exchange for free licenses. Hire a couple prominent people as
consultants to visibly offer their material and lobby their colleagues.

Also, contract for legal advice in various countries to get the real
status of their material, such as the Philippine government situation
discussed recently. A statute found online does not take into account
court cases for instance, and you'd need a qualified practitioner to
come up with the right rule for Wikimedia projects.

Stan

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Re: Dream a little...

Samuli Lintula
On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 21:24:06 +0300, Stan Shebs <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> Scientists have a zillion valuable photographs that they're sitting on,
> either out of lack of motivation or because they hope to use it in a
> future publication, and they don't necessarily know about free
> licensing.

This is a good idea!

--
Ystävällisin terveisin,
Samuli Lintula
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Re: Dream a little...

Anthony DiPierro
In reply to this post by W. Guy Finley
On 10/15/06, W. Guy Finley <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think if you go to AP or CORBIS with a hundred mill and say "hey,
> we want to work out a bulk licensing deal for copyright permissions"
> I'm certain something would get done.  Would it be every single thing
> they do with unlimited rights?  No.  Wold it be an enormous chunk of
> images we could sorely use?  Most definitely.
>
Does Corbis even own the copyright on the images they archive?  What about AP?
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Re: Dream a little...

David Monniaux-2
In reply to this post by Stan Shebs-2
Stan Shebs wrote:

>Scientists have a zillion valuable photographs that they're sitting on,
>either out of lack of motivation or because they hope to use it in a
>future publication, and they don't necessarily know about free
>licensing.
>
Beep.

In many (most ?) cases, scientists are employed under terms of contracts
or law that assign copyright for works done during their professional
duties to their employer.

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Re: Dream a little...

daniwo59
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
In a message dated 10/15/2006 2:35:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [hidden email] writes:
On 10/15/06, W. Guy Finley <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think if you go to AP or CORBIS with a hundred mill and say "hey,
> we want to work out a bulk licensing deal for copyright permissions"
> I'm certain something would get done.  Would it be every single thing
> they do with unlimited rights?  No.  Wold it be an enormous chunk of
> images we could sorely use?  Most definitely.
>
Does Corbis even own the copyright on the images they archive?  What about AP?
 
Yes and yes.
 
Danny

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Re: Dream a little...

geni
In reply to this post by W. Guy Finley
On 10/15/06, W. Guy Finley <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ahhh, i'm remembering why I'm on hiatus.  Dream a little........so
> someone can come and piss on it.
>

If you don't identify problems you can't improve things. What do AP
have that we don't and have no reasonable way of getting?

Photos of newsworthy events where there was no US miltitry presence.
Now aside from AP and  simular who has these photos?

Buying up big photo archives has some attactions but it is likely we
would waste a lot of money on stuff we could have produced anyway.



--
geni
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Re: Dream a little...

daniwo59
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
My own thoughts on this, which I also expressed on the meta page:
 
1. There is plenty of material out that that is already public domain. Part of the problem is that it can take forever and a day to digitize it all. In the case of books and magazines, digitization often involves destroying the hard copies in the process. There are, however, specialized scanners that can do the work without ruining the books themselves. These are expensive (about US $30,000 a machine). Ten machines, strategically located around the world, along with student staff to operate them around the clock could help to preserve these texts and store them for prosperity. Additional people (paid and volunteer) will be needed to OCR, proof, and hyperlink the material to ensure that it doesn't get lost in a glut of material (I have visions of the final scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark, when the Ark was finally stored in some crate in an army warehouse).
 
2. While OCR capacities exist for some languages, they do not exist for other languages, where the material is much more likely to get lost. Manuscripts in Tibetan monasteries, for example, can be scanend but not OCRed easily. To make this information available, developers should be paid to create adequate OCR tools for these languages. Rough cost: $5 million.
 
3. Music has been recorded around the world for well over a century, yet many of the early recordings are being lost, especially those on wax cylinders and porcelain records. Preservation includes locating, identifying, and remastering. People must be trained to do this. Rough cost: $35 million over two years.
 
4. This is true of old films as well. Celluloid copies are extremely rare and extremely flammable. Restoration is exceedingly costly. For example, [[Theda Bara]] is a well-known vamp of early Hollywood (the word "vamp" was first used to describe her), yet none of her films survive, and they were made less than a hundred years ago. Films are international, they include important historic documents such as newsreels, and they are being lost every day. Today, most preservation work is being done by major studios, since it is so costly. In other words, they are taking important works now in the public domain, restoring them, and contending that the restoration is an original work, i.e., another hundred years at least until some Vigo or Charlie Chaplin films enter the public domain ... and little attention is being paid to newsreels of events like the Russian revolution, World War I, etc. Like music, people should be offered scholarships to learn the art of film restoration and work on these projects. Until this happens it can be outsourced. Rough cost: $50 million.
 
5. To ensure all of this remains accessible, we will need a LOT of servers and bandwidth: Initial outlay: $10 million.
 
Total $100 million dollars, spent over 5 years. Costs include staffing, identifying prospective targets, transportation, overhead, etc. Just coordinating a project of this scope will take a lot of effort.
 
And there is competition too. As an example, http://historical.library.cornell.edu/IWP/ is a collection of Internation Women's Journals, some of which are very important historically. They are already scanned, but they are inaccessible because a private company has (rightfully or wrongfully) copyrighted the scans.
 
Lots to be done. You will see how quickly $100 million can be spent.
 
Danny
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/15/2006 11:27:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [hidden email] writes:

I would like to gather from the community some examples of works you
would like to see made free, works that we are not doing a good job of
generating free replacements for, works that could in theory be
purchased and freed.

Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
like to see purchased and released under a free license?

Photos libraries? textbooks? newspaper archives? Be bold, be specific,
be general, brainstorm, have fun with it.

I was recently asked this question by someone who is potentially in a
position to make this happen, and he wanted to know what we need, what
we dream of, that we can't accomplish on our own, or that we would
expect to take a long time to accomplish on our own.

--Jimbo
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Re: Dream a little...

Gregory Maxwell
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
On 10/15/06, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I would like to gather from the community some examples of works you
> would like to see made free, works that we are not doing a good job of
> generating free replacements for, works that could in theory be
> purchased and freed.
>
> Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
> copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
> like to see purchased and released under a free license?
[snip]

How sustainable do you see this sort of funding being?

I ask because I think it makes a difference in how we handle this sort
of planning.

Because of the huge spread of topics and interests in our projects,
there is sure to be as many good ideas as there are users.

If this is to be a one time event, the best way to handle it is
perhaps for a Wikimedia executive (i.e. you) to put out a call..
select a couple of the best ideas, and then see which of them can be
done for the funding we have.

If there is a possibility of continuing this model further, I think a
better approach would be to setup a tracker of ideas (perhaps as
simple as a wikipage, although the sales forecasting component of a
CRM might be more powerful) which we can use to determine which ideas
are most widely supported, and from that list we can go and
presumptively obtain budgetary numbers for the ideas.  With the costs
in hand we could then seek appropriate funding to make the dreams a
reality.

I think that if we're going to consider the big impact ideas... it's
not a much a question of finding the ideas, because a couple of them
should be pretty obvious to all of us ("Hey, lets buy a small but well
established US textbook company, open up their books, enhance them
through collaborative development, and take english speaking schools
by storm while we use the income to translate the work and replicate
it world wide")... The real challenge for those is figuring out "How
much?" and all the other logistics.
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Re: Dream a little...

Florence Devouard-3
Gregory Maxwell wrote:

> On 10/15/06, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>I would like to gather from the community some examples of works you
>>would like to see made free, works that we are not doing a good job of
>>generating free replacements for, works that could in theory be
>>purchased and freed.
>>
>>Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
>>copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
>>like to see purchased and released under a free license?
>
> [snip]
>
> How sustainable do you see this sort of funding being?

Note that Jimbo does not necessary imply that the Foundation has this
budget. This may be the budget of another organisation acting upon our
recommandation.

Ant

>
> I ask because I think it makes a difference in how we handle this sort
> of planning.
>
> Because of the huge spread of topics and interests in our projects,
> there is sure to be as many good ideas as there are users.
>
> If this is to be a one time event, the best way to handle it is
> perhaps for a Wikimedia executive (i.e. you) to put out a call..
> select a couple of the best ideas, and then see which of them can be
> done for the funding we have.
>
> If there is a possibility of continuing this model further, I think a
> better approach would be to setup a tracker of ideas (perhaps as
> simple as a wikipage, although the sales forecasting component of a
> CRM might be more powerful) which we can use to determine which ideas
> are most widely supported, and from that list we can go and
> presumptively obtain budgetary numbers for the ideas.  With the costs
> in hand we could then seek appropriate funding to make the dreams a
> reality.
>
> I think that if we're going to consider the big impact ideas... it's
> not a much a question of finding the ideas, because a couple of them
> should be pretty obvious to all of us ("Hey, lets buy a small but well
> established US textbook company, open up their books, enhance them
> through collaborative development, and take english speaking schools
> by storm while we use the income to translate the work and replicate
> it world wide")... The real challenge for those is figuring out "How
> much?" and all the other logistics.

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