Europanto

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Europanto

Alfredo Carpineti
I would like to start a Wikipedia in a language called Europanto. I
attached the Wiki article that explain it better than I can. Looking
foward for hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

Alfredo Carpineti

From Wikipedia.org:

Europanto is a constructed language, a linguistic jest with a
hodge-podge vocabulary from many European languages. It was created in
1996 by Diego Marani, a translator for the European Council of
Ministers in Brussels. Marani created it in response to the perceived
dominance of the English language; it is an emulation of the effect
that non-native speakers struggling to learn a language typically add
words and phrases from their native language to express their meanings
clearly.
The single outstanding feature of Europanto is that there are no fixed
rules -- merely a set of suggestions. This means that anybody can
start to speak Europanto immediately, on the other hand it is the
speaker's responsibility to draw on an assumed common vocabulary and
grammar between himself and the audience, to make himself understood.
Effectively, Europanto as it is used, tends to have a grammar much
like English, with words borrowed from various languages and adapted
to be easily understood. It is sometimes considered a parody of the
international auxiliary language genre, particularly the "Euroclone"
variety, namely their preceived tendency to very strongly formalize
speech, and impose strict, but arbitrary rules on it.
The name Europanto is a portmanteau combination of European and the
Greek stem πάντ- (all), and resembles Esperanto.
Marani wrote regular newspaper columns about the language and
published a novel using it. As of 2005, he no longer actively promotes
it.
[edit]
Sample

Eine terrible menace incumbe over el Kingdom des Angleterra. Poor
Regina Elisabeth habe spent todo seine dinero in charmingantes hats
und pumpkinose carrosses und maintenow habe keine penny left por
acquire de Champagne dat necessite zum celebrate Prince Charles
anniversario op el 14 Novembro. (Diego Marani)
(Which translates as "A terrible menace has come over the Kingdom of
England. Poor Queen Elizabeth has spent all of her money in charming
hats and pumpkin carriages, and now is left without a penny to buy the
Champagne which is necessary to celebrate Prince Charles' birthday on
November 14th.")
[edit]

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Re: Europanto

Brion Vibber
Alfredo Carpineti wrote:
> I would like to start a Wikipedia in a language called Europanto. I
> attached the Wiki article that explain it better than I can. Looking
> foward for hearing from you.

A joke language? Gimme a break.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


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Re: Europanto

Neil Harris-2
In reply to this post by Alfredo Carpineti
Alfredo Carpineti wrote:

> I would like to start a Wikipedia in a language called Europanto. I
> attached the Wiki article that explain it better than I can. Looking
> foward for hearing from you.
>
> Yours faithfully
>
> Alfredo Carpineti
>
> From Wikipedia.org:
>
> Europanto is a constructed language, a linguistic jest with a
> hodge-podge vocabulary from many European languages.
[snip]
> The single outstanding feature of Europanto is that there are no fixed
> rules -- merely a set of suggestions. This means that anybody can
> start to speak Europanto immediately, on the other hand it is the
> speaker's responsibility to draw on an assumed common vocabulary and
> grammar between himself and the audience, to make himself understood.
> Effectively, Europanto as it is used, tends to have a grammar much
> like English, with words borrowed from various languages and adapted
> to be easily understood.
[snip]

Since it appears to be possible to generate Europanto by word-by-word
translation of English into European languages chosen at random on a
word-by-word basis, I'd imagine that it would not be too difficult to
generate a Europanto Wikipedia programmatically, using the English
Wikipedia as source material, and perhaps Wiktionary as the
word-for-word translation dictionary. Throw in link grammars for
fair-to-reasonable part-of-speech tagging...

Und voila! Esta Vikipedio Europantoi - L'encyclopédie fria e gratuita,
mit 950,000 artikelen!

I leave the details to whoever sets this as an assignment to their
computer science class.

-- Neil (IHNJ, IJLS "und voila!") Harris


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Re: Europanto

Michael Snow
In reply to this post by Alfredo Carpineti
Neil Harris wrote:

> Since it appears to be possible to generate Europanto by word-by-word
> translation of English into European languages chosen at random on a
> word-by-word basis, I'd imagine that it would not be too difficult to
> generate a Europanto Wikipedia programmatically, using the English
> Wikipedia as source material, and perhaps Wiktionary as the
> word-for-word translation dictionary. Throw in link grammars for
> fair-to-reasonable part-of-speech tagging...
>
> Und voila! Esta Vikipedio Europantoi - L'encyclopédie fria e gratuita,
> mit 950,000 artikelen!

Curiously, my brain processes that as "The fried encyclopedia". So I
guess it's a decent enough joke. As a Wikipedia language, though, it
ranks up there with Klingon.

--Michael Snow
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Re: Re: Europanto

Gerben van der Stouwe
2006/2/4, Michael Snow <[hidden email]>:
>
> Curiously, my brain processes that as "The fried encyclopedia". So I
> guess it's a decent enough joke.
>As a Wikipedia language, though, it
> ranks up there with Klingon.
>
> --Michael Snow

Maybe something for april fools this year? Just a thought.

--
Gerben van der Stouwe
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Re: Europanto

Ilya N.
In reply to this post by Michael Snow
Or cold encyclopedia :\

On 2/4/06, Michael Snow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Neil Harris wrote:
>
> > Since it appears to be possible to generate Europanto by word-by-word
> > translation of English into European languages chosen at random on a
> > word-by-word basis, I'd imagine that it would not be too difficult to
> > generate a Europanto Wikipedia programmatically, using the English
> > Wikipedia as source material, and perhaps Wiktionary as the
> > word-for-word translation dictionary. Throw in link grammars for
> > fair-to-reasonable part-of-speech tagging...
> >
> > Und voila! Esta Vikipedio Europantoi - L'encyclopédie fria e gratuita,
> > mit 950,000 artikelen!
>
> Curiously, my brain processes that as "The fried encyclopedia". So I
> guess it's a decent enough joke. As a Wikipedia language, though, it
> ranks up there with Klingon.
>
> --Michael Snow
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


--
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http://w3stuff.com/ilya/ (My website; DarkLordFoxx Media)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ilyanep (on Wikipedia)
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Re: Europanto

M. Williamson
In reply to this post by Alfredo Carpineti
Hi. it's unlikely that a europeanto wikipedia would be created because
its vocab is unstable and it is usually considered a joke language.

On 2/3/06, Alfredo Carpineti <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would like to start a Wikipedia in a language called Europanto. I
> attached the Wiki article that explain it better than I can. Looking
> foward for hearing from you.
>
> Yours faithfully
>
> Alfredo Carpineti
>
> From Wikipedia.org:
>
> Europanto is a constructed language, a linguistic jest with a
> hodge-podge vocabulary from many European languages. It was created in
> 1996 by Diego Marani, a translator for the European Council of
> Ministers in Brussels. Marani created it in response to the perceived
> dominance of the English language; it is an emulation of the effect
> that non-native speakers struggling to learn a language typically add
> words and phrases from their native language to express their meanings
> clearly.
> The single outstanding feature of Europanto is that there are no fixed
> rules -- merely a set of suggestions. This means that anybody can
> start to speak Europanto immediately, on the other hand it is the
> speaker's responsibility to draw on an assumed common vocabulary and
> grammar between himself and the audience, to make himself understood.
> Effectively, Europanto as it is used, tends to have a grammar much
> like English, with words borrowed from various languages and adapted
> to be easily understood. It is sometimes considered a parody of the
> international auxiliary language genre, particularly the "Euroclone"
> variety, namely their preceived tendency to very strongly formalize
> speech, and impose strict, but arbitrary rules on it.
> The name Europanto is a portmanteau combination of European and the
> Greek stem πάντ- (all), and resembles Esperanto.
> Marani wrote regular newspaper columns about the language and
> published a novel using it. As of 2005, he no longer actively promotes
> it.
> [edit]
> Sample
>
> Eine terrible menace incumbe over el Kingdom des Angleterra. Poor
> Regina Elisabeth habe spent todo seine dinero in charmingantes hats
> und pumpkinose carrosses und maintenow habe keine penny left por
> acquire de Champagne dat necessite zum celebrate Prince Charles
> anniversario op el 14 Novembro. (Diego Marani)
> (Which translates as "A terrible menace has come over the Kingdom of
> England. Poor Queen Elizabeth has spent all of her money in charming
> hats and pumpkin carriages, and now is left without a penny to buy the
> Champagne which is necessary to celebrate Prince Charles' birthday on
> November 14th.")
> [edit]
>

--
"Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin

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Re: Re: Europanto

M. Williamson
In reply to this post by Michael Snow
Hey, Klingon may be nerdy and funky, and it may have less than 1
fully-competent native speakers (to be fair, there are at least 2
native speakers, but neither of them were raised entirely in Klingon
because their parents gave up after realising belatedly that it lacks
translations for words necessary to a rich and enjoyable childhood as
"table" and "joy"), but at least it has a (mostly) constant vocabulary
and grammar.

According to most of the more complex definitions of "language",
Europanto wouldn't qualify as one -- it does not have a relatively
fixed vocabulary. The source languages aren't even for-sure -- some
people include all European languages, others limit it to German,
English, French, and Spanish, others include various other languages
such as Italian, Dutch, Portuguese, Swedish... until they resolve that
issue of way-too-many-synonyms and the myriad linguistic uncertanties,
it's more of a pan-European Wind Up Pidgin (got that phrase from JBR,
who used the phrase "Czech-Italian wind-up pidgin" to describe
Esperanto), but probably even less developed than that -- more of a
jargon or a cant or argot.

Folks, come back when your language has a more stable vocabulary. The
answer will probably still be a resounding "no" until there are native
speakers or a huge huge following...

Sinceremente vosaltres,
Marcos Williamson

On 04/02/06, Michael Snow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Neil Harris wrote:
>
> > Since it appears to be possible to generate Europanto by word-by-word
> > translation of English into European languages chosen at random on a
> > word-by-word basis, I'd imagine that it would not be too difficult to
> > generate a Europanto Wikipedia programmatically, using the English
> > Wikipedia as source material, and perhaps Wiktionary as the
> > word-for-word translation dictionary. Throw in link grammars for
> > fair-to-reasonable part-of-speech tagging...
> >
> > Und voila! Esta Vikipedio Europantoi - L'encyclopédie fria e gratuita,
> > mit 950,000 artikelen!
>
> Curiously, my brain processes that as "The fried encyclopedia". So I
> guess it's a decent enough joke. As a Wikipedia language, though, it
> ranks up there with Klingon.
>
> --Michael Snow
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


--
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Re: Re: Europanto

M. Williamson
Oh, et, para l'entertainement Dvs., une traduzzione al Europante:

Hey, Klingon may be nerdy et funcky, et lo possiblement tiene menos de
1 totalmente-competent sprachadoras nativas (zum ser fair, hay at
least 2 sprechedors nativos, but neither von ellos were raised
entirement en Klingon porquoi sus parents gave arriba antes von
realising belatedly que el lacks traducciones fur worter necessaire
zum o ninho-hood rico e enjoyable comme "mesa" y "joi"), pero at menos
el has un (mostly) constant vocabulaire et grammar.

According al most de los definitions mas complessos de "langue",
Europanto no would qualifiquer como un -- nein tiene un vocabulario
relativement fijado. The lenguajes sources son even para-sure -- some
gente incluyen alle les lenguajes Europaisches, otros limit el zum
Aleman, Englisch, Franzosisch, y Spagnol, altres incluyen lenguajes
varios altres como l'Italiano, Nederlands, Portugesisch, Swedish...
until ellos resolven l'issue del way-too-many-sinonimos y el myriad
uncertanties linguistiques, es mas of a pan-Europeen Wind Up Pidgin,
pero probablement even menos sviluppatto que that -- more de eine
jargon o un cant o argot.

Gente, devolve quand votre idioma tiene un vocabulaire mas stable. El
answer will probablement still ser eine "nein" resoundingo until hay
speakadoras nativas o un following huge huge...

Sinceremente dvs.,
Marcos Williamson

>
> On 04/02/06, Michael Snow <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Neil Harris wrote:
> >
> > > Since it appears to be possible to generate Europanto by word-by-word
> > > translation of English into European languages chosen at random on a
> > > word-by-word basis, I'd imagine that it would not be too difficult to
> > > generate a Europanto Wikipedia programmatically, using the English
> > > Wikipedia as source material, and perhaps Wiktionary as the
> > > word-for-word translation dictionary. Throw in link grammars for
> > > fair-to-reasonable part-of-speech tagging...
> > >
> > > Und voila! Esta Vikipedio Europantoi - L'encyclopédie fria e gratuita,
> > > mit 950,000 artikelen!
> >
> > Curiously, my brain processes that as "The fried encyclopedia". So I
> > guess it's a decent enough joke. As a Wikipedia language, though, it
> > ranks up there with Klingon.
> >
> > --Michael Snow
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
>
>
> --
> "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
>


--
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Re: Europanto

europanto
In reply to this post by Brion Vibber
Hay déjà een plan fûr une europanto wikipedia
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/One_supporter#Europanto
but ... ;o)

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Re: Europanto

Servien Ilaino
Hoi,

Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een couple de
språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.

It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be used
more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended for
fun than a serious encyclopedia.

Serv


2006/3/15, europanto <[hidden email]>:

>
>
> Hay déjà een plan fûr une europanto wikipedia
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/One_supporter#Europanto
> but ... ;o)
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3413774
> Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Europanto

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
Servien Ilaino wrote:
> Hoi,
>
> Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een couple de
> språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
>
> It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be used
> more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended for
> fun than a serious encyclopedia.
>

Perhaps a Wikicity?

--
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Re: Europanto

Servien Ilaino
Ik demande mi wie Wikicity gebraucht, ei kukaan me trora ;)

Serv


2006/3/15, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <[hidden email]>:

>
> Servien Ilaino wrote:
> > Hoi,
> >
> > Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een
> couple de
> > språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
> >
> > It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be used
> > more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended
> for
> > fun than a serious encyclopedia.
> >
>
> Perhaps a Wikicity?
>
> --
> Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
> Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
> "We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
> Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
>
>
>
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Re: Europanto

Neil Harris-2
In reply to this post by Alphax (Wikipedia email)
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:

> Servien Ilaino wrote:
>  
>> Hoi,
>>
>> Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een couple de
>> språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
>>
>> It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be used
>> more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended for
>> fun than a serious encyclopedia.
>>
>>    
>
> Perhaps a Wikicity?
>
>  
As I said when this was last brought up, it should only take the writing
of a fairly simple script, and you can munge en: and Wiktionary more or
less instantly into over 1,000,000 Europanto articles. Given that, why
bother? In my opinion, once you've realized this, the task becomes about
as interesting as Sudoku does once you've written a constraint-search
solver.

-- Neil

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Re: Europanto

M. Williamson
I agree here, although it would be interesting if somebody wrote a
Europanto script.

Mark

On 15/03/06, Neil Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
> > Servien Ilaino wrote:
> >
> >> Hoi,
> >>
> >> Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een couple de
> >> språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
> >>
> >> It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be used
> >> more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended for
> >> fun than a serious encyclopedia.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Perhaps a Wikicity?
> >
> >
> As I said when this was last brought up, it should only take the writing
> of a fairly simple script, and you can munge en: and Wiktionary more or
> less instantly into over 1,000,000 Europanto articles. Given that, why
> bother? In my opinion, once you've realized this, the task becomes about
> as interesting as Sudoku does once you've written a constraint-search
> solver.
>
> -- Neil
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


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Re: Europanto

Ilya N.
Is there even a set vocabulary, or does one simply just take random
words from different European languages?

Ich puedo do éso. ¿?Können Tu?

On 3/15/06, Mark Williamson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree here, although it would be interesting if somebody wrote a
> Europanto script.
>
> Mark
>
> On 15/03/06, Neil Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
> > > Servien Ilaino wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hoi,
> > >>
> > >> Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een
> couple de
> > >> språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
> > >>
> > >> It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be
> used
> > >> more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended
> for
> > >> fun than a serious encyclopedia.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > Perhaps a Wikicity?
> > >
> > >
> > As I said when this was last brought up, it should only take the writing
> > of a fairly simple script, and you can munge en: and Wiktionary more or
> > less instantly into over 1,000,000 Europanto articles. Given that, why
> > bother? In my opinion, once you've realized this, the task becomes about
> > as interesting as Sudoku does once you've written a constraint-search
> > solver.
> >
> > -- Neil
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
>
>
> --
> "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


--
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http://w3stuff.com/ilya/ (My website; DarkLordFoxx Media)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ilyanep (on Wikipedia)
http://www.wheresgeorge.com - Track your money's travels.
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Re: Europanto

M. Williamson
Just take random words from different European languages. Most
Europanto texts seem to be a sort of Belgian mixed language of mostly
French, Dutch, and German, with a fair bit of English and Spanish
thrown in for good measure.

I'm sure there are some common threads -- for example, perhaps people
use "huis" more than "house", or perhaps the most common definite
article is "le". Beyond some very weak trends, I would suspect that
all of the stronger trends vary from person to person -- I, for
example, tend to use more English although I make a conscious effort
to replace English words I've already written with words in other
languages. Other people, however, tend not to take such care and end
up using Europanto "dialects" which are clearly influenced more by
their native language.

Mark

On 15/03/06, Ilya N. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is there even a set vocabulary, or does one simply just take random
> words from different European languages?
>
> Ich puedo do éso. ¿?Können Tu?
>
> On 3/15/06, Mark Williamson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I agree here, although it would be interesting if somebody wrote a
> > Europanto script.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On 15/03/06, Neil Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
> > > > Servien Ilaino wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hoi,
> > > >>
> > > >> Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een
> > couple de
> > > >> språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
> > > >>
> > > >> It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be
> > used
> > > >> more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended
> > for
> > > >> fun than a serious encyclopedia.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps a Wikicity?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > As I said when this was last brought up, it should only take the writing
> > > of a fairly simple script, and you can munge en: and Wiktionary more or
> > > less instantly into over 1,000,000 Europanto articles. Given that, why
> > > bother? In my opinion, once you've realized this, the task becomes about
> > > as interesting as Sudoku does once you've written a constraint-search
> > > solver.
> > >
> > > -- Neil
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
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Re: Europanto

europanto
In reply to this post by Ilya N.
It's a little bit more than "just take random words" from different European languages.
If a script was enought to generate Europanto sentences, I would have written it
a long time ago ( I'm a computer engineer )
The fun is that everyone speaks the way he/she wants/can and the underlying goal,
apart from having people understand what you're trying to say ( you can reformulate
your sentence  as many times as you wish ), is to have good sounding ... er ..."lyrics".  ;o)

smh
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Re: Europanto

europanto
In reply to this post by M. Williamson
Well, joke language or not, it is a  language. Its grammar is a set of all european language grammars.
Why doesn't it have a unique grammar ?
Because there's no common grammar among all european languages, so why choose one
instead of another. You just adapt it to the vocabulary you use locally in your sentence ( for example ).
It has cultural and historical background.
Anyway, I'm not here to defend Europanto 'till I die.
Or you're a language purist and you'll never admit it as a language, or you're not that narrow-minded and you see what's the point of it,
or ... you were kind of seduced and even if you're not a linguist, you decide to support that "way of thinking".

By the way I must admit that I won't kill myself if there isn't a europanto wikipedia ;o)
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Re: Europanto

M. Williamson
The point is, Europanto is not a language in the narrow definition of the word.

Can it be used for communication? Yes. But does it have a more or less
codified set of rules and words that are used to speak it? No. It's
basically linguistic anarchy.

Mark

On 10/04/06, europanto <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Well, joke language or not, it is a  language. Its grammar is a set of all
> european language grammars.
> Why doesn't it have a unique grammar ?
> Because there's no common grammar among all european languages, so why
> choose one
> instead of another. You just adapt it to the vocabulary you use locally in
> your sentence ( for example ).
> It has cultural and historical background.
> Anyway, I'm not here to defend Europanto 'till I die.
> Or you're a language purist and you'll never admit it as a language, or
> you're not that narrow-minded and you see what's the point of it,
> or ... you were kind of seduced and even if you're not a linguist, you
> decide to support that "way of thinking".
>
> By the way I must admit that I won't kill myself if there isn't a europanto
> wikipedia ;o)
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3839936
> Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
>
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