FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

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FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

Mitchell-15
This seems to apply to the whole Foundation, so I am cross-posting here.

____________________
Mitch D. (Greeves on all English Wikimedia projects)


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Slim
Virgin
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:25 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to
hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the
extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and if possible
improving their responses to it.

I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline
stalking that have happened to users as a result of their
participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where
the target was picked on because they were an administrator.

If you've been a target of this yourself, or if you know of anyone who
has, I'd appreciate hearing from you at slimvirgin at gmail dot com.
All replies will be received in strictest confidence. Your name would
not have to be included in the final document, and if you're worried
about being exposed in any way, I can change all identifying details.
Nothing will be included about you without your express permission.

What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking or
harassment made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find
support. I'd like to hear about your fears; whether it made you
anxious; whether it affected your sleep or appetite, or your health in
any other way; and whether you considered ending your association with
the project you were involved in (or did end it). Even if your fears
felt completely irrational, I'd like to hear about them.

I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to
additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays and members
of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part
because of that.

Many thanks,

Sarah

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Re: FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

Mark

> I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to
> hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the
> extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and if possible
> improving their responses to it.
>
> I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline
> stalking that have happened to users as a result of their
> participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where
> the target was picked on because they were an administrator.
>
> [...]
> I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to
> additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays and members
> of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part
> because of that.
>  

With all due respect this seems somewhat backwards. A useful
sociological study would be: To what extent is "cyberstalking" and
harrassment a problem on Wikimedia Foundation projects, and if it is a
significant problem, what character does it take? This proposal puts the
cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete
examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not
responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes. That
strikes me as more like a class-action-lawyer's method of operating than
a valid methodology for sociology research, and I can already guess what
the results of a study carried out in that fashion are going to be,
since the proposed study outlines pretty openly what it plans to find.

-Mark


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Re: FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

Casey Brown-3
I'm not sure if SlimVirgin is subscribed here, I'll CC: it to her.

On 9/4/07, Delirium <[hidden email] > wrote:

>
>
> > I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to
> > hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the
> > extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and if possible
> > improving their responses to it.
> >
> > I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline
> > stalking that have happened to users as a result of their
> > participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where
> > the target was picked on because they were an administrator.
> >
> > [...]
> > I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to
> > additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays and members
> > of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part
> > because of that.
> >
>
> With all due respect this seems somewhat backwards. A useful
> sociological study would be: To what extent is "cyberstalking" and
> harrassment a problem on Wikimedia Foundation projects, and if it is a
> significant problem, what character does it take? This proposal puts the
> cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete
> examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not
> responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes. That
> strikes me as more like a class-action-lawyer's method of operating than
> a valid methodology for sociology research, and I can already guess what
> the results of a study carried out in that fashion are going to be,
> since the proposed study outlines pretty openly what it plans to find.
>
> -Mark
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
to
this address will probably get lost.
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Re: FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

Brianna Laugher
In reply to this post by Mark
On 05/09/07, Delirium <[hidden email]> wrote:
> With all due respect this seems somewhat backwards. A useful
> sociological study would be:

She didn't say she was writing a sociological study. "A paper" could
be anything from very informal to peer-reviewed.

This proposal puts the
> cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete
> examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not
> responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes.

Asking for private emails could be trolling?? ...

regards,
Brianna


--
They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment:
http://modernthings.org/

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Re: FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

Sarah-128
On 9/4/07, Brianna Laugher <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 05/09/07, Delirium <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > With all due respect this seems somewhat backwards. A useful
> > sociological study would be:
>
> She didn't say she was writing a sociological study. "A paper" could
> be anything from very informal to peer-reviewed.
>
> This proposal puts the
> > cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete
> > examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not
> > responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes.
>
> Asking for private emails could be trolling?? ...
>
> regards,
> Brianna
>
"Trolling for anecdotes"?

Mark, first, this isn't an academic paper, though even if it were,
there'd be nothing wrong with asking targets to contact me.

Secondly, I don't say it's a serious problem. I believe it is, but I'd
first of all like to hear from people who've experienced it.

Third, my main concern is to document how stalking makes people feel.
There seems to be an ideology on Wikipedia that targets should just
toughen up, grow a thicker skin, or "man up," as the editor of Salon
put it. So I think it'll be helpful to document what effect these
experiences have.

Finally, it's not a question of claiming that the Foundation isn't
responding appropriately. It's not responding at all. This is because
it's not aware of the extent of the problem, and it's not clear what
it *could* do, given its limited resources. Anything that gathers up
examples and tries to show the type of problem we're dealing with is
surely likely to help, if only in a small way.

Sarah

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Re: FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

George William Herbert
In reply to this post by Mark
On 9/4/07, Delirium <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to
> > hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the
> > extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and if possible
> > improving their responses to it.
> >
> > I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline
> > stalking that have happened to users as a result of their
> > participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where
> > the target was picked on because they were an administrator.
> >
> > [...]
> > I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to
> > additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays and members
> > of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part
> > because of that.
> >
>
> With all due respect this seems somewhat backwards. A useful
> sociological study would be: To what extent is "cyberstalking" and
> harrassment a problem on Wikimedia Foundation projects, and if it is a
> significant problem, what character does it take? This proposal puts the
> cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete
> examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not
> responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes. That
> strikes me as more like a class-action-lawyer's method of operating than
> a valid methodology for sociology research, and I can already guess what
> the results of a study carried out in that fashion are going to be,
> since the proposed study outlines pretty openly what it plans to find.
>
> -Mark

It's false to gather some ancedotes and then use that to try and
statistically demonstrate a problem.  But if the ancedotal incidents
have not been well understood or discussed in the community, they can
help characterize the problem (if not its extent, which requires
working in from the other side with population statistics).


--
-george william herbert
[hidden email]

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Re: FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

Sarah-128
In reply to this post by Sarah-128
Mark only posted part of my e-mail to another list. I was intending to
send a request for information to this list too, so here it is.

I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to
hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the
extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and hopefully
improving their responses to it.

I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline
stalking that have happened to users as a result of their
participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where
the target was picked on because they were an administrator.

If you've been a target of this yourself, or if you know of anyone who
has, I'd appreciate hearing from you at slimvirgin at gmail dot com.
All replies will be received in strictest confidence. Your name would
not have to be included in the final document, and if you're worried
about being exposed in any way, I can change all identifying details.
Nothing will be included about you without your express permission.

What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking or
harassment made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find
support. I'd like to hear about your fears; whether it made you
anxious; whether it affected your sleep or appetite, or your health in
any other way; and whether you considered ending your association with
the project you were involved in (or did end it). Even if your fears
felt completely irrational, I'd like to hear about them.

I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to
additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays, lesbians,
and members of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole
or in part because of that.

Many thanks,

Sarah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVirgin

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Re: FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

Mark
In reply to this post by Brianna Laugher
Brianna Laugher wrote:

> On 05/09/07, Delirium <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
> This proposal puts the
>  
>> cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete
>> examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not
>> responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes.
>>    
>
> Asking for private emails could be trolling?? ...
>  

To clarify, I wasn't accusing anyone of "trolling" in the
internet-jargon sense of the term, but just the more tradition sense of
setting out a lure and seeing what it draws in. Come to think of it, I
suppose I could've just used the word "fishing".

-Mark


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Re: FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

Sarah-128
On 9/5/07, Delirium <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brianna Laugher wrote:
> > On 05/09/07, Delirium <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > This proposal puts the
> >
> >> cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete
> >> examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not
> >> responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes.
> >>
> >
> > Asking for private emails could be trolling?? ...
> >
>
> To clarify, I wasn't accusing anyone of "trolling" in the
> internet-jargon sense of the term, but just the more tradition sense of
> setting out a lure and seeing what it draws in. Come to think of it, I
> suppose I could've just used the word "fishing".
>
> -Mark
>
Or "asking." :-)

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Re: FW: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Mark
> To clarify, I wasn't accusing anyone of "trolling" in the
> internet-jargon sense of the term, but just the more tradition sense of
> setting out a lure and seeing what it draws in. Come to think of it, I
> suppose I could've just used the word "fishing".

Yes, fishing would have been the better term. Even in the traditional
sense, trolling implies deception.

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