Flag copyright

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Flag copyright

Brianna Laugher
Can someone explain to me how this is supposed to work?

If a flag design is PD, and I make a faithful representation of it
(intended to be a duplicate), do I have any copyright over it or not?

Ditto COAs.

Some examples:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Ked.gif
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Coa_cote_d_ivory.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Lombardia-Bandiera.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Miranda_flag.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Martina_Franca-Stemma.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Petrzalka_erb.gif
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Ph_seal_guimaras.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Pommernwappen.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Provincia_Huesca.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Puglia-Bandiera.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Russia_coa.svg (some discussion)
 plus a whole bunch linked to
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:SlovakCityCOA

Some of these images have been marked as copyvios because they're from
Flags of the World (FOTW) website. Is FOTW even right to claim
copyright?

See, this ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Russian_Empire_1914-17_Flag.png
) is tagged as copyvio because it's from FOTW. Yet it's also listed as
being superseded by
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Russian_Empire_1914_17.svg
which is licensed CC-BY-SA!!! What gives??

I would have thought that either a flag design is PD or it's not.
(generally decided by the laws of the country.) If it's PD, it doesn't
matter how much time you spend on your SVG, you can't license it any
other way than PD. (And PD-self is *wrong* in such cases.) If it's
not, then it's gonna be copyrighted as we can't host it anyway.

Feedback please, and if you want to delete/retag any of the above
images that'd be great.

Brianna
commons:User:pfctdayelise
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Re: Flag copyright

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
Brianna Laugher wrote:
> Can someone explain to me how this is supposed to work?
>
> If a flag design is PD, and I make a faithful representation of it
> (intended to be a duplicate), do I have any copyright over it or not?
>
> Ditto COAs.
<snip>
> Some of these images have been marked as copyvios because they're from
> Flags of the World (FOTW) website. Is FOTW even right to claim
> copyright?
>

Um. I saw a bunch of these on bad_old_ones for [[Category:Against
policy]]...

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Re: Flag copyright

Brianna Laugher
On 01/07/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Um. I saw a bunch of these on bad_old_ones for [[Category:Against
> policy]]...


Yes, they're all from there. Which is rather why I'd like to know...

Brianna
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Re: Flag copyright

Matthew Brown-5
In reply to this post by Brianna Laugher
On 6/30/06, Brianna Laugher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me how this is supposed to work?
>
> If a flag design is PD, and I make a faithful representation of it
> (intended to be a duplicate), do I have any copyright over it or not?

Depends where you are in the world.  In the United States, there is a
minimum creativity bar to clear, which accurate copying generally does
not.  Thus in the US exact copying does not create new copyright.

In some other places in the world, new copyright is created every time
a new copy of the work is created - this "mechanical copyright" means
that a copy of a public-domain work is not necessarily public domain.
This is the case in the UK among others, I believe.

-Matt
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Re: Flag copyright

Cary Bass
On 6/30/06, Matt Brown wrote:

>
> Depends where you are in the world.  In the United States, there is a
> minimum creativity bar to clear, which accurate copying generally does
> not.  Thus in the US exact copying does not create new copyright.
>
> In some other places in the world, new copyright is created every time
> a new copy of the work is created - this "mechanical copyright" means
> that a copy of a public-domain work is not necessarily public domain.
> This is the case in the UK among others, I believe.
>

How should we apply this?  I believe that as the flag itself is a PD object,
that gives us the license to yield to what Matt states is US law.

My own interpretetion:  If it appears that a graphics program adept (they're
familiar with the graphics program, be it Photoshop or Inkscape or whatever,
that they're using) put a significant amount of creativity (a billable
amount of time, more than 2-4 hours dependant on level of expertise) into
the design, they may be able to claim copyright on it.  Either delete it or
modify it significantly (put another hour into it), or upload a decent copy
of your own.

Frankly, I think it's just silly to claim copyright on a flag.  I also think
it's silly to upload a flag you got from a site that claims copyright.

Cary Bass

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Re: Flag copyright

Matthew Brown-5
I'd say in general with flags, we should be able to create our own
illustration from scratch and thus avoid the whole issue.

-Matt
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