[Foundation-l] [Announcement] Welcome to the advisory group

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Re: [Foundation-l] [Announcement] Welcome to the advisory group

P. Birken
Yes, this is a great list and every single person on it has skills
that we need and that will hopefully help us in the future. It is nice
to see that the very good idea of the advisory board has taken shape.
I am also glad that this list is not closed: as much as I can
understand every single choice, the result in itself does IMHO not
reflect the international scope of the foundation as much as it
should. We have repeatedly seen in the past, how important not only
language, but in particular culture is. Thus, I urge the board to
consider more people from nonenglishspeaking countries for the
advisory board.

Take care,

Philipp

2007/1/29, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:

> Hoi,
> One reason to have an advisory board is to bring outsiders into an
> organisation that have a distinctly /other /approach. Angela will be
> very much a linking pin with our organisation; she is deeply connected
> to the Wikimedia Foundation and has through her activities at Wikia a
> deep understanding in how to build communities as well as an
> understanding in using MediaWiki in a commercial environment. Because of
> her new relative distance to the WMF I am convinced that we are lucky
> that she has accepted this post.
>
> Another reason why you would want people in an advisory board is because
> of the network that they bring with them. Kofi Anan, would be one person
> that would be really important if he would consider us. I do not know if
> we are audacious enough to ask him :)
>
> I disagree strongly that we should populate an advisory board with
> people that are already in our community. It would create an other layer
> of bureaucracy and I am not convinced that we need our own demi-gods.
> People that ARE within have the option to make themselves useful in many
> ways. There are plenty of things that do not get done. We talk enough as
> it is and imho we do not need another talking shop.
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
>
> effe iets anders schreef:
> > maybe it would be more constructive if we wouldnt stuck to this very
> person,
> > and the discussion whether he is notable or not have private? Then we
> could
> > maybe focus more on the issue that is imho more important, the *type* of
> > person that is missing. So not really names, but more the qualities that
> > lack this advisory group. Actually I am somehow missing a bit more input
> > from the communities. Most of the users seem to me (except angela)
> relative
> > outsiders, please correct me if i'm wrong. Might it be worth evaluating
> the
> > idea that in some way we should have a user of several parts of the
> > wikimedia communities? And then especially users who are more then just
> > users. So they should be active users, but also bring "a little extra",
> for
> > example, they combine that with skills on social, legal, economical or
> > ideological area.
> >
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > 2007/1/29, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
> >
> >> Cormac Lawler schreef:
> >>
> >>> On 1/29/07, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Ray Saintonge schreef:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> There are many people who could make a valuable contribution to this
> >>>>>> advisory board. You apparently have yours and I do not even know
> >>>>>>
> >> Sunir
> >>
> >>>>>> Shah.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> He was at Wikimania in Frankfort.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ec
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Hoi,
> >>>> So were you and I, so was Richard Stallman if that is what makes you
> >>>> notable ...
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>     GerardM
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Sunir Shah is the (co)founder of Meatball Wiki:
> >>> <http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?MeatballWiki> ;
> >>> <http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?SunirShah>. You can find his
> >>> Wikimania 2005 presentation details at:
> >>> <
> >>>
> >>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2005_Presentations#Other_Talks
> >>
> >>> .
> >>> I agree with Jussi-Ville that he could be of great service to the
> >>> advisory group.
> >>>
> >>> Cormac
> >>>
> >> Hoi,
> >> I have again looked at the website, it gives me a chaotic impression. I
> >> have looked at the presentation it is OK, however I am sure that we have
> >> people of an equal calibre in our own ranks. My idea of an advisory
> >> board is that they have to bring something extra, something fresh. I
> >> fail to see what the extra is. To be blunt, to me is seems like a "blast
> >> from the past" while we need to see into a future and reach out.
> >> Thanks,
> >>     GerardM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: [Foundation-l] [Announcement] Welcome to the advisory group

Angela-5
In reply to this post by Effe iets anders
On 1/29/07, effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Actually I am somehow missing a bit more input
> from the communities. Most of the users seem to me (except angela) relative
> outsiders, please correct me if i'm wrong. Might it be worth evaluating the
> idea that in some way we should have a user of several parts of the
> wikimedia communities?

I think there is room for a separate body of user representatives made
only of people from the community. Something like the WikiCouncil idea
which has been proposed in the past.

The advisory is meant to provide the Board of Trustees with some
"outside" perspective which  is why most of its members are not a core
part of the community  - though many of them have had some involvement
with Wikimedia before, so it's not like they're complete Wikimedia
newbies. :)

Angela

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Re: [Foundation-l] [Announcement] Welcome to the advisory group

The Cunctator
In reply to this post by Cormac Lawler
On 1/29/07, Cormac Lawler <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 1/29/07, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Ray Saintonge schreef:
> > > Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> There are many people who could make a valuable contribution to this
> > >> advisory board. You apparently have yours and I do not even know
> Sunir
> > >> Shah.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > He was at Wikimania in Frankfort.
> > >
> > > Ec
> > Hoi,
> > So were you and I, so was Richard Stallman if that is what makes you
> > notable ...
> > Thanks,
> >     GerardM
> >
>
>
> Sunir Shah is the (co)founder of Meatball Wiki:
> <http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?MeatballWiki> ;
> <http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?SunirShah>. You can find his
> Wikimania 2005 presentation details at:
> <
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2005_Presentations#Other_Talks
> >.
> I agree with Jussi-Ville that he could be of great service to the
> advisory group.


And one of the earliest Wikipedia contributors.
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Re: [Foundation-l] [Announcement] Welcome to the advisory group

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by Angela-5
Angela wrote:

>On 1/29/07, effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Actually I am somehow missing a bit more input
>>from the communities. Most of the users seem to me (except angela) relative
>>outsiders, please correct me if i'm wrong. Might it be worth evaluating the
>>idea that in some way we should have a user of several parts of the
>>wikimedia communities?
>>    
>>
>I think there is room for a separate body of user representatives made
>only of people from the community. Something like the WikiCouncil idea
>which has been proposed in the past.
>
>The advisory is meant to provide the Board of Trustees with some
>"outside" perspective which  is why most of its members are not a core
>part of the community  - though many of them have had some involvement
>with Wikimedia before, so it's not like they're complete Wikimedia
>newbies. :)
>  
>
While it might be a good idea to ad one or two thoughtful Wikipedians to
the Advisory Board, particularly if it chooses to operate a series of
committees where direct representation would be an asset.  Beyond that I
don't see any urgency to having more community members on that Board.

I have always been positive toward the WikiCouncil idea, but I'm afraid
that if we make sorting out the issue of democratic representation a
precondition for establishing a WikiCouncil it will never happen.  If a
WikiCouncil is set up finding a solution to that problem should be a
high priority item on its agenda.  It may be necessary for the first
members of the WikiCouncil to be appointed, but a more representative
system could be used when it is time to replace these people.

Ec



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Re: [Foundation-l] [Announcement] Welcome to the advisory group

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by The Cunctator
Hoi,
Given that Sunir is probably an OK guy, and even that he contributed
early in our projects, that still does not demonstrate the added value
he has over many of the people that are already in our project. What I
was looking for is what he adds to the equation, what I find that he may
be a great guy but I do not understand what his added value would be.
This complementary value is what you look for in people that are
relevant for the advisory board.
Thanks,
    GerardM

The Cunctator schreef:

> On 1/29/07, Cormac Lawler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> On 1/29/07, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>    
>>> Ray Saintonge schreef:
>>>      
>>>> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>> There are many people who could make a valuable contribution to this
>>>>> advisory board. You apparently have yours and I do not even know
>>>>>          
>> Sunir
>>    
>>>>> Shah.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>> He was at Wikimania in Frankfort.
>>>>
>>>> Ec
>>>>        
>>> Hoi,
>>> So were you and I, so was Richard Stallman if that is what makes you
>>> notable ...
>>> Thanks,
>>>     GerardM
>>>
>>>      
>> Sunir Shah is the (co)founder of Meatball Wiki:
>> <http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?MeatballWiki> ;
>> <http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?SunirShah>. You can find his
>> Wikimania 2005 presentation details at:
>> <
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2005_Presentations#Other_Talks
>>    
>>> .
>>>      
>> I agree with Jussi-Ville that he could be of great service to the
>> advisory group.
>>    
>
>
> And one of the earliest Wikipedia contributors.


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Re: [Foundation-l] [Announcement] Welcome to the advisory group

The Cunctator
The short answer is that he is one of the best people at analyzing and
understanding how to construct and manage online communities, particularly
wiki projects. IMHO. (But if my claim is true I hope you can see how he
would be a very good person to have on the Wikimedia Advisory Board.)

On 1/30/07, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hoi,
> Given that Sunir is probably an OK guy, and even that he contributed
> early in our projects, that still does not demonstrate the added value
> he has over many of the people that are already in our project. What I
> was looking for is what he adds to the equation, what I find that he may
> be a great guy but I do not understand what his added value would be.
> This complementary value is what you look for in people that are
> relevant for the advisory board.
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
>
> The Cunctator schreef:
> > On 1/29/07, Cormac Lawler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 1/29/07, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ray Saintonge schreef:
> >>>
> >>>> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> There are many people who could make a valuable contribution to this
> >>>>> advisory board. You apparently have yours and I do not even know
> >>>>>
> >> Sunir
> >>
> >>>>> Shah.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> He was at Wikimania in Frankfort.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ec
> >>>>
> >>> Hoi,
> >>> So were you and I, so was Richard Stallman if that is what makes you
> >>> notable ...
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>     GerardM
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Sunir Shah is the (co)founder of Meatball Wiki:
> >> <http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?MeatballWiki> ;
> >> <http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?SunirShah>. You can find his
> >> Wikimania 2005 presentation details at:
> >> <
> >>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2005_Presentations#Other_Talks
> >>
> >>> .
> >>>
> >> I agree with Jussi-Ville that he could be of great service to the
> >> advisory group.
> >>
> >
> >
> > And one of the earliest Wikipedia contributors.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Re: [Foundation-l] [Announcement] Welcome to the advisory group

oscar van dillen
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
On 1/29/07, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> To be blunt, to me is seems like a "blast from the past" while we need to
> see into a future and reach out.


couldn't help thinking of the following anecdote:

some years ago the parliament in the netherlands did tests at (dutch) high
school graduation level.
the results in dutch language were not good if i recall correctly, but
especially in the history test they were exceedingly bad. when asked about
the importance of awareness and knowledge of history in his profession, one
politician stated: "we are here for the future, not for the past"

best ;-)
oscar

--
DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of the
Wikimedia Foundation nor of its Board of Trustees.
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Re: [Foundation-l] [Announcement] Welcome to the advisory group

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
In reply to this post by The Cunctator
The Cunctator wrote:
> The short answer is that he is one of the best people at analyzing and
> understanding how to construct and manage online communities, particularly
> wiki projects. IMHO. (But if my claim is true I hope you can see how he
> would be a very good person to have on the Wikimedia Advisory Board.)
>

Personally, I'm starting to get rather tired of all this "Oh well
so-and-so should be on the advisory board", so I will ask plain and
simple: Did anyone reply to Anthere's email of November 7th 2006, with
subject "[Foundation-l] [Advisory board]: appeal for members
suggestion", and *formally* suggest them?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP


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