[Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
11 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Casey Brown-3
The CentralNotices are now live on all the projects (including sister
projects).  To make this possible, we had to change translations of
"Wikipedia" to "{{SITENAME}}".  Some languages (like ru/uk), will need
more changes in order to have accurate grammar.  If your language is
one of these, please respond to this e-mail.

In your response, we will need to know what the text will be for each
sister project.  For example, on uk, the text for Вікіпедія
(Wikipedia) had to be "Вікіпедію", but all the others stayed the same
-- they would send us that information.

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent to
this address will probably get lost.
_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Mormegil
2008/11/11 Casey Brown <[hidden email]>:
> The CentralNotices are now live on all the projects (including sister
> projects).  To make this possible, we had to change translations of
> "Wikipedia" to "{{SITENAME}}".  Some languages (like ru/uk), will need
> more changes in order to have accurate grammar.  If your language is
> one of these, please respond to this e-mail.

In Czech (cs), you need to take into account the grammatical gender
and number of the names. While "Wikipedie" (Wikipedia) is feminine
singular, "Wikislovník" (Wiktionary) is masculine singular, Wikinews
is plural, etc. But, since all projects share the same central notice
template, and differ only in the language, it is not that easy, I am
afraid.

More specifically:

2008 meter 1-donate-text cannot have identical text for all projects,
since Wikipedia and Wikiversity (and all those using "Wikimedia"
instead of the site name) need
{{SITENAME}} je závislá na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy.
Wiktionary needs
{{SITENAME}} je závislý na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy.
and Wikiquote, Wikibooks, and Wikinews require
{{SITENAME}} jsou závislé na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy.

Dtto for 2008 nometer 2-donate-text – for Wikipedia and Wikiversity:
{{SITENAME}} je zde pro vás, když ji potřebujete – teď potřebuje ona vás.
for Wiktionary:
{{SITENAME}} je zde pro vás, když jej potřebujete – teď potřebuje on vás.
and for Wikiquote, Wikibooks, and Wikinews:
{{SITENAME}} jsou zde pro vás, když je potřebujete – teď potřebují ony vás.

This could easily be reduced to two cases instead of three, or get rid
of {{SITENAME}} entirely and use "we", which would work around the
problem entirely.

Also, grammatical case needs to be observed, but that would be
possible even across projects using {{grammar:}} – all
donate-text-small needs to have {{grammar:4sg}} applied to
{{SITENAME}}, i.e.:
Podpořte neziskový projekt. Podpořte {{grammar:4sg|{{SITENAME}}}}.

(Or, is it possible to receive centralnotice_translate_rights on Meta?)

-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

KIZU Naoko
Hello,

as far as I know, temp sysop is easily granted for any technical
purpose including translation etc. In your case, Mormegil, I strongly
endorse your request if you would like to have it based on your long
term devotion and good reputation.

For central notice, unless I misunderstand, it can be set both for
multiple wikis (e.g. for all projects of a certain language) and for a
single wiki (e.g. for Czeck Wikinews). If it is much easier, it would
be an idea to set up single notice for each Czeck projects ... anyway
there are only up to nine projects.

Thought?

Cheers,

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Petr Kadlec <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2008/11/11 Casey Brown <[hidden email]>:
>> The CentralNotices are now live on all the projects (including sister
>> projects).  To make this possible, we had to change translations of
>> "Wikipedia" to "{{SITENAME}}".  Some languages (like ru/uk), will need
>> more changes in order to have accurate grammar.  If your language is
>> one of these, please respond to this e-mail.
>
> In Czech (cs), you need to take into account the grammatical gender
> and number of the names. While "Wikipedie" (Wikipedia) is feminine
> singular, "Wikislovník" (Wiktionary) is masculine singular, Wikinews
> is plural, etc. But, since all projects share the same central notice
> template, and differ only in the language, it is not that easy, I am
> afraid.
>
> More specifically:
>
> 2008 meter 1-donate-text cannot have identical text for all projects,
> since Wikipedia and Wikiversity (and all those using "Wikimedia"
> instead of the site name) need
> {{SITENAME}} je závislá na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy.
> Wiktionary needs
> {{SITENAME}} je závislý na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy.
> and Wikiquote, Wikibooks, and Wikinews require
> {{SITENAME}} jsou závislé na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy.
>
> Dtto for 2008 nometer 2-donate-text – for Wikipedia and Wikiversity:
> {{SITENAME}} je zde pro vás, když ji potřebujete – teď potřebuje ona vás.
> for Wiktionary:
> {{SITENAME}} je zde pro vás, když jej potřebujete – teď potřebuje on vás.
> and for Wikiquote, Wikibooks, and Wikinews:
> {{SITENAME}} jsou zde pro vás, když je potřebujete – teď potřebují ony vás.
>
> This could easily be reduced to two cases instead of three, or get rid
> of {{SITENAME}} entirely and use "we", which would work around the
> problem entirely.
>
> Also, grammatical case needs to be observed, but that would be
> possible even across projects using {{grammar:}} – all
> donate-text-small needs to have {{grammar:4sg}} applied to
> {{SITENAME}}, i.e.:
> Podpořte neziskový projekt. Podpořte {{grammar:4sg|{{SITENAME}}}}.
>
> (Or, is it possible to receive centralnotice_translate_rights on Meta?)
>
> -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>



--
KIZU Naoko
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Britty (in Japanese)
Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Luiz Augusto-2
In reply to this post by Mormegil

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Petr Kadlec <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
In Czech (cs), you need to take into account the grammatical gender
and number of the names. While "Wikipedie" (Wikipedia) is feminine
singular, "Wikislovník" (Wiktionary) is masculine singular, Wikinews
is plural, etc. But, since all projects share the same central notice
template, and differ only in the language, it is not that easy, I am
afraid.

Same issue with the Portuguese language. "Wikipedia", "Wikinotícias" (Wikinews) and "Wikiversidade" (Wikiversity) are feminine singular. "Wikcionário" (Wiktionary), "Wikilivros" (Wikibooks), "Wikiquote", "Wikisource" and "Wikimedia Commons" masculine singular.

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Bence Damokos
I think you can use a switch for the different projects in the template, see for example this Hungarian page:


and the switch function inside it:
{{#switch:{{lc:{{SITENAME}}}} |wikiszótár=Wikiszótárra |wikipédia=Wikipédiára |wikihírek=Wikihírekre |wikidézet=Wikidézetekre|wikikönyvek=Wikikönyvekre |wikiforrás=Wikiforrásra |Wikimédiára}}

On the left side of the =-signs is the name of the project in your language with small initial letters, while on the right side is the text that should be shown in the given project. (This might seem complicated, but it isn't that difficult; setting up separate notices for the different languages and then maintaining them when the banner changes might be much more complicated IMHO).

Best,
Regards

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:59 PM, Luiz Augusto <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Petr Kadlec <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
In Czech (cs), you need to take into account the grammatical gender
and number of the names. While "Wikipedie" (Wikipedia) is feminine
singular, "Wikislovník" (Wiktionary) is masculine singular, Wikinews
is plural, etc. But, since all projects share the same central notice
template, and differ only in the language, it is not that easy, I am
afraid.

Same issue with the Portuguese language. "Wikipedia", "Wikinotícias" (Wikinews) and "Wikiversidade" (Wikiversity) are feminine singular. "Wikcionário" (Wiktionary), "Wikilivros" (Wikibooks), "Wikiquote", "Wikisource" and "Wikimedia Commons" masculine singular.

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l



_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Michael Wolf-2
In reply to this post by KIZU Naoko
Aphaia napisa:
> For central notice, unless I misunderstand, it can be set both for
> multiple wikis (e.g. for all projects of a certain language) and for a
> single wiki (e.g. for Czeck Wikinews). If it is much easier, it would
> be an idea to set up single notice for each Czeck projects ... anyway
> there are only up to nine projects.

Hello,

I remember there was in LanguageXx(x).php a grammar rule for the project
names. But they are deleted now. Why?

It was a switch command for the grammatical cases of all wiki projects -
here for Upper Sorbian:

switch ( $case ) {
                        case 'genitiw': # genitive
                                if ( $word == 'Wikipedija' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikipedije';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikiknihi' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikiknih';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikinowiny' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikinowin';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikižórło' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikižórła';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikicitaty' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikicitatow';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikisłownik' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikisłownika';
                                }
                                break;
                        case 'datiw': # dativ
                                if ( $word == 'Wikipedija' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikipediji';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikiknihi' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikikniham';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikinowiny' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikinowinam';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikižórło' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikižórłu';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikicitaty' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikicitatam';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikisłownik' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikisłownikej';
                                }
                                break;
                        case 'akuzativ': # akuzativ
                                if ( $word == 'Wikipedija' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikipediju';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikiknihi' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikiknknihi';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikinowiny' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikinowiny';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikižórło' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikižórło';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikicitaty' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikicitaty';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikisłownik' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikisłownik';
                                }
                                break;
                        case 'instrumental': # instrumental
                                if ( $word == 'Wikipedija' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikipediju';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikiknihi' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikiknihami';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikinowiny' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikinowinami';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikižórło' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikižórłom';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikicitaty' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikicitatami';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikisłownik' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikisłownikom';
                                } else {
                                        $word = 'z ' . $word;
                                }
                                break;
                        case 'lokatiw': # lokatiw
                                if ( $word == 'Wikipedija' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikipediji';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikiknihi' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikiknihach';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikinowiny' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikinowinach';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikižórło' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikižórłu';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikicitaty' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikicitatach';
                                } elseif ( $word == 'Wikisłownik' ) {
                                        $word = 'Wikisłowniku';
                                } else {
                                        $word = 'wo ' . $word;
                                }
                                break;
                        }
               
                return $word; # this will return the original value for 'nominatiw'
(nominativ) and all undefined case values
        }

I don't know why it was deleted in LanguageHsb.php. And AFAIK Czech had
such a switch command in its languageCs.php as well.


Regards,
michawiki




_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Casey Brown-3
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Michael Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It was a switch command for the grammatical cases of all wiki projects -
> here for Upper Sorbian:

We do not have anything to do with that, it's on betawiki. :-)  But,
about that, we tried to use {{grammar:accusitive|{{SITENAME}}}}, but
it didn't seem to work in the notices.

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent to
this address will probably get lost.

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Michael Wolf-2
Casey Brown napisa:
> We do not have anything to do with that, it's on betawiki. :-)  But,
> about that, we tried to use {{grammar:accusitive|{{SITENAME}}}}, but
> it didn't seem to work in the notices.

Hi Casey,

It must be "accus*a*tive", not accus*i*tive. But in Wikipedia we use the
Sorbian names of the cases:

nominatiw, genitiw, datiw, akuzatiw, instrumental, lokatiw

and the template name is written completely in upper case: GRAMMAR (like
PLURAL as well) but I don't know if this is relevant. Well, zour example
should look:

{{GRAMMAR:akuzatiw|{{SITENAME}}}}

But you should consider that in Slavic languages accusative often equals
to nominative if a noun denotes inanimate entities, thus things. With
persons or animals the accusative has the form of genitive. This rule is
valid for masculine and neutral nouns, not for feminine nouns. Well,
don't use Wiktionary as an example (because the Sorbian form is
Wikisłownik. Here accusative = nominative. Use e.g. Wikipedija or
Wikimedija, then the accusative will be Wikipediju resp. Wikimediju and
you will see that the template works (I hope so, :-))


Regards,
michawiki





_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Siebrand Mazeland
In reply to this post by Michael Wolf-2
They were not deleted, they were moved to a more appropriate location. They are now in the extension WikimediaMessages, where they can be updated without requiring a shell admin, and only be used by Wikimedia, and they are no longer in the standard MediaWiki product where Wikimedia specific configuration does not belong.

Cheers! Siebrand

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Namens Michael Wolf
Verzonden: dinsdag 11 november 2008 19:14
Aan: Wikimedia Translators
Onderwerp: Re: [Translators-l] [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Aphaia napisa:
> For central notice, unless I misunderstand, it can be set both for
> multiple wikis (e.g. for all projects of a certain language) and for a
> single wiki (e.g. for Czeck Wikinews). If it is much easier, it would
> be an idea to set up single notice for each Czeck projects ... anyway
> there are only up to nine projects.

Hello,

I remember there was in LanguageXx(x).php a grammar rule for the project names. But they are deleted now. Why?

It was a switch command for the grammatical cases of all wiki projects - here for Upper Sorbian:

[snip]

I don't know why it was deleted in LanguageHsb.php. And AFAIK Czech had such a switch command in its languageCs.php as well.


Regards,
michawiki


_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Michael Wolf-2
Siebrand Mazeland napisa:
> They were not deleted, they were moved to a more appropriate location. They are now in the

extension WikimediaMessages, where they can be updated without requiring
a shell admin,

and only be used by Wikimedia, and they are no longer in the standard
MediaWiki product where

Wikimedia specific configuration does not belong.

Hi Siebrand,

yes I've found the file WikimediaGrammarForms.php:

http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/WikimediaMessages/WikimediaGrammarForms.php?revision=39077&view=markup

But I saw that there are no grammar rules for the Wikimedia project, in
all languages. And for Lower Sorbian (dsb) are used the Upper Sorbian
forms. I shall write the Lower Sorbian forms tomorrow, today (eh, today
is already tomorrow :-)) it's too late. Or to early in the morning? :-)


Regards,
michawiki

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

Siebrand Mazeland
Hi Micha.

Grammar forms[1] are, and always have been, based on the content language,
and not on a user's interface language[2]. I must admit that the
documentation is not that clear...

Cheers! Siebrand

[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgGrammarForms
[2] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgLanguageCode

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Namens Michael Wolf
Verzonden: woensdag 12 november 2008 0:28
Aan: Wikimedia Translators
Onderwerp: Re: [Translators-l] [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices

[..]

But I saw that there are no grammar rules for the Wikimedia project, in all
languages. And for Lower Sorbian (dsb) are used the Upper Sorbian forms. I
shall write the Lower Sorbian forms tomorrow, today (eh, today is already
tomorrow :-)) it's too late. Or to early in the morning? :-)


_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l