Fwd: DPLA Beta Sprint: Calling all Submitters!

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Fwd: DPLA Beta Sprint: Calling all Submitters!

metasj
(forwarding to f-l)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
To:Wikibooks <[hidden email]>, wikisource
<[hidden email]>


Dear Wikimedians --

A project to build a national public digital library in the US, the
"Digital Public Library of America", is asking for statements of
interest from people or groups who have ideas for what this might look
like -- and mean to create a prototype or detailed proposal over the
course of this summer.

Actual proposals, of whatever form, are due in September, but a
statement of interest is due by June 15.  If you are interested in the
subject, or currently working on a project you could see being part of
such a public resource, you can submit a statement online:

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/dpla/forms/statement-of-interest/

See below for background on the DPLA.  While this group is focused on
a national project for a single country (formed by a consortium of US
libraries, foundations, and academics) , they are conscious of the
need to do something similar worldwide, and committed to making this
process and resulting tools as open and reusable as possible.

SJ


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Palfrey <[hidden email]>
Date: Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:20 AM
Subject: [berkmanfriends] DPLA Beta Sprint: Calling all Submitters!
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>


At the Digital Public Library of America, we've just announced a "Beta
Sprint" to gather creative ideas, models, and other innovations that
could play a role in the building of a DPLA.  We'd love to see
submissions from members of this list, as we know many of you have
excellent thoughts on how this effort might take shape.  Please find
the full announcement below, and let me, Rebekah Heacock, and/or Maura
Marx know if you have any questions or want to team up with one of the
groups that appear already to be forming to make a submission.
Best,
John
--
The Digital Public Library of America (DPLA) Steering Committee is
delighted to announce today a Beta Sprint that aims to surface
innovations that could play a part in the building of a digital public
library.

The Beta Sprint seeks, ideas, models, prototypes, technical tools,
user interfaces, etc. – put forth as a written statement, a visual
display, code, or a combination of forms – that demonstrate how the
DPLA might index and provide access to a wide range of broadly
distributed content. The Beta Sprint also encourages development of
submissions that suggest alternative designs or that focus on
particular parts of the system, rather than on the DPLA as a whole.

The DPLA Steering Committee is leading the first concrete steps toward
the realization of a large-scale digital public library that will make
the cultural and scientific record available to all. The DPLA planning
initiative grew out of an October 2010 meeting at the Radcliffe
Institute for Advanced Study, which brought together over 40
representatives from foundations, research institutions, cultural
organizations, government, and libraries to discuss best approaches to
building a national digital library. Subsequent workshops in March and
May have addressed the content, scope, and technical aspects of a
DPLA.

“As the DPLA planning initiative moves forward, we are optimistic that
the DPLA community and public can help us think about what a DPLA
might look like, in practical – and perhaps unexpected – ways, as
platform, architecture, interface, and beyond,” said John Palfrey,
chair of the DPLA Steering Committee. “We hope geeks and librarians,
especially, will join forces to develop beta submissions in support of
this initiative.”

“The Beta Sprint is where the dream of a seamless and comprehensive
digital library for every person begins to grapple, technically and
creatively, with what has already been accomplished and what still
need to be developed,” said Doron Weber, Vice President of Programs at
the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation and a Steering Committee member. “The
DPLA represents the broadest coalition of stakeholders ever assembled
who are dedicated to free and universal access to knowledge for all,
and the Beta Sprint will help us kick off an 18-month program to
construct, brick by digital brick, this beautiful new edifice.”

For inspiration, Beta Sprint participants might consider the general
approach taken by initiatives whose leaders are on the DPLA Steering
Committee, such as the Internet Archive, Public.Resource.Org, the
Hathi Trust, American Memory, and others, as well as the Europeana
project and the national digital libraries in the Netherlands, Norway,
and South Korea.

Submission instructions and more information are available at
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/dpla, where you can also watch a short
video about the Beta Sprint. Statements of interest must be received
by June 15, 2011. Final submissions will be due by September 1, 2011.

A review panel appointed by the Steering Committee and composed of
experts in the fields of library science, information management, and
computer science will review Beta Sprint submissions in early
September. Creators of the most promising betas will be invited to
present their ideas to interested stakeholders and community members
during a public meeting in Washington, DC.

# # #

About the Digital Public Library of America
The Digital Public Library of America (DPLA) planning initiative is an
impact-oriented research effort that unites leaders from all types of
libraries, museums, and archives with educators, industry, and
government to define the vision for a digital library in service of
the American public. The DPLA Secretariat is located at the Berkman
Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University; the Steering
Committee comprises library and foundation leaders across the nation.
More information can be found at
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/research/dpla.

About the Berkman Center for Internet & Society
The Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University is a
research program founded to explore cyberspace, share in its study,
and help pioneer its development. Founded in 1997, through a generous
gift from Jack N. and Lillian R. Berkman, the Center is home to an
ever-growing community of faculty, fellows, staff, and affiliates
working on projects that span the broad range of intersections between
cyberspace, technology, and society. More information can be found
athttp://cyber.law.harvard.edu/.

Digital Public Library of America Steering Committee
Paul Courant, Harold T. Shapiro Professor of Public Policy and Dean of
Libraries at the University of Michigan
Robert Darnton, Carl H. Pforzheimer University Professor and Director
of the Harvard University Library
Carla Hayden, Chief Executive Officer of the Enoch Pratt Free Library
(Baltimore, Maryland)
Charles Henry, President of the Council on Library and Information
Resources (CLIR)
Luis Herrera, City Librarian for the City and County of San Francisco
Susan Hildreth, Director of the Institute for Museum and Library Services
Brewster Kahle, Founder of the Internet Archive
Michael A. Keller, Ida M. Green University Librarian, Director of
Academic Information Resources at Stanford University
Carl Malamud, President, Public.Resource.Org
Deanna Marcum, Associate Librarian for Library Services at the Library
of Congress
Maura Marx, Berkman Center Fellow and Executive Director, Open Knowledge Commons
Jerome McGann, John Stewart Bryan University Professor at the
University of Virginia
John Palfrey, Faculty Co-Director at the Berkman Center; Henry N. Ess
III Professor of Law and Vice Dean of Library and Information
Resources at Harvard Law School (chair)
Peggy Rudd, Executive Director/State Librarian of the Texas State
Library and Archives Commission
Amy E. Ryan, President of the Boston Public Library
Donald Waters, Program Officer for Scholarly Communications and
Information Technology at the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation
Doron Weber, Vice President, Programs at the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation

Contact:
Rebekah Heacock
Project Coordinator
Berkman Center for Internet & Society
[hidden email]

----------
You are subscribed to the Berkman Fellows and Friends discussion list.

Mailing list options: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/lists/info/berkmanfriends
Mailing list members: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/lists/review/berkmanfriends

Please mind that emails sent through this list are considered public unless
otherwise noted.





--

Maura Marx
Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet and Society
Executive Director, Open Knowledge Commons
**********************************************************
direct: 617-384-9131
mobile: 617-835-3510
email: [hidden email]



--
Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266



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Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266

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Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Birgitte_sb
I am getting ready do to a little traveling. It works out that traveling light is going to be my best bet for various reasons. As I don't want to carry around the weight of a laptop; I have purchased a little closer to the cutting edge than I generally do. In setting up my iPad this is what shocked me.  It is near impossible to edit a wiki.  Well that wasn't to worrisome. I figured "there's an app for that". I searched "Wikipedia" and was presented with a large selection of apps that basically hide the fact that the websites are even editable.  They offer helpful things to using the wiki on small screen wrt to TOC and general navigation, but they also strip out all the edit links.  After specifically searching for edit, I found one app that made it possible to edit from iPad without pulling my hair out. [1].

 The whole trend is a bit worrisome.  Ever since I got the device I really don't want to use my laptop. I thought I would hate typing anything on it.  But it not bad at all (and I am the sort to make sure and buy laptops with full-size keyboards). People are going use  the free apps so long as WM wikis are hard to navigate natively.  We will never convert readers to editors if they reading with the editing interface stripped away. Do these apps for read-only Wikipedia even support the central-notice? I am not sure. Some seem to completely convert the website to a magazine appearance; some seem more like sleek web-browser.
 
I can't help but think that WMF does't jump in soon with an inexpensive app which solves the difficulties of navigation while preserving the facets of the site that are important to WMF, it will be harder to recover the losses if this trend of hardware takes hold. I imagine an official WMF app would get some sort of preference when searching "wikipedia" in the App Store, which is why I really think the foundation might want to attend to this.

BirgitteSB

[1] http://www.wikieditapp.com/

Sent from my iPad
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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

K. Peachey-2
Why couldn't you edit it with the normal web browser in the ipad?

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Birgitte_sb


On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:23 PM, "K. Peachey" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Why couldn't you edit it with the normal web browser in the ipad?
>
> _______________________________________________
>

I could edit from a browser, but it was rather difficult.  That difficulty wasn't really important, but just what motivated me to look for an app.  The issue I was writing about was what I found when searched the app store for "Wikipedia".  People using many "wikipedia apps" can't edit because most of the apps don't support editing. And these apps have a lot of ratings and there are a variety of them. So people must be using them.

BirgitteSB
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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Steven Walling
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 6:16 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am getting ready do to a little traveling. It works out that traveling
> light is going to be my best bet for various reasons. As I don't want to
> carry around the weight of a laptop; I have purchased a little closer to the
> cutting edge than I generally do. In setting up my iPad this is what shocked
> me.  It is near impossible to edit a wiki.  Well that wasn't to worrisome. I
> figured "there's an app for that". I searched "Wikipedia" and was presented
> with a large selection of apps that basically hide the fact that the
> websites are even editable.  They offer helpful things to using the wiki on
> small screen wrt to TOC and general navigation, but they also strip out all
> the edit links.  After specifically searching for edit, I found one app that
> made it possible to edit from iPad without pulling my hair out. [1].
>
>  The whole trend is a bit worrisome.  Ever since I got the device I really
> don't want to use my laptop. I thought I would hate typing anything on it.
>  But it not bad at all (and I am the sort to make sure and buy laptops with
> full-size keyboards). People are going use  the free apps so long as WM
> wikis are hard to navigate natively.  We will never convert readers to
> editors if they reading with the editing interface stripped away. Do these
> apps for read-only Wikipedia even support the central-notice? I am not sure.
> Some seem to completely convert the website to a magazine appearance; some
> seem more like sleek web-browser.
>
> I can't help but think that WMF does't jump in soon with an inexpensive app
> which solves the difficulties of navigation while preserving the facets of
> the site that are important to WMF, it will be harder to recover the losses
> if this trend of hardware takes hold. I imagine an official WMF app would
> get some sort of preference when searching "wikipedia" in the App Store,
> which is why I really think the foundation might want to attend to this.
>
> BirgitteSB
>

Birgitte,

You are absolutely correct.

Just as an additional option for Wikipedians who use the iPad, I'd point out
this little trick that makes it easier to edit from the browser:
http://blog.tommorris.org/post/5662997343/custom-css-for-wikipedia-on-ipad

There are a whole host of opportunities and risks on mobile for Wikimedia.
You've clearly been thinking about this, so I think it would be helpful if
you could add your ideas to the relevant Talk pages on strategy wiki.[1] [2]
If you could write in detail about your experiences with the iPad that would
be helpful to the mobile team I'm sure, as a case study in user experience.

I completely share your fears about Wikipedia in an app-centric world. In
general I'm glad to say that I hear all the time at the Foundation about
what the mobile team is doing.

This isn't iPad-relevant per se, but they're in the middle of rewriting the
mobile site and making sure that all mobile browsers actually redirect
there. Another thing that will make things better is that Kul is hiring a
person to develop partnerships with mobile businesses. That means that, with
both app makers and big companies like carriers, we will have more of a
fighting chance to make our feelings about edit buttons, donations, proper
licensing attribution, and other issues heard. There are lots more, but if
you have ideas please share.

Steven

1. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Product_Whitepaper
2. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile
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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Ziko van Dijk
Hello Birgitte,

Those same worries came up in me when I saw a video about the "Discover" app:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DSBEmkeUzQ

In a contribution to
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kurier/Ausgabe_7_2010
I compared those new apps with the clones around 2005, with the
difference, that the apps are a more serious threat because they look
much better than the original Wikipedia site.
In those apps you don't see the edit button, the donate button nor the
site notice.
Even in Safari, the Apple browser, on an iPhone or iPad you usually
don't see the left side bar with the donate button.

I wonder whether in future we must take more, say, intrusive action to
make people see the donate features...

Kind regards
Ziko



2011/6/10 Steven Walling <[hidden email]>:

> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 6:16 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I am getting ready do to a little traveling. It works out that traveling
>> light is going to be my best bet for various reasons. As I don't want to
>> carry around the weight of a laptop; I have purchased a little closer to the
>> cutting edge than I generally do. In setting up my iPad this is what shocked
>> me.  It is near impossible to edit a wiki.  Well that wasn't to worrisome. I
>> figured "there's an app for that". I searched "Wikipedia" and was presented
>> with a large selection of apps that basically hide the fact that the
>> websites are even editable.  They offer helpful things to using the wiki on
>> small screen wrt to TOC and general navigation, but they also strip out all
>> the edit links.  After specifically searching for edit, I found one app that
>> made it possible to edit from iPad without pulling my hair out. [1].
>>
>>  The whole trend is a bit worrisome.  Ever since I got the device I really
>> don't want to use my laptop. I thought I would hate typing anything on it.
>>  But it not bad at all (and I am the sort to make sure and buy laptops with
>> full-size keyboards). People are going use  the free apps so long as WM
>> wikis are hard to navigate natively.  We will never convert readers to
>> editors if they reading with the editing interface stripped away. Do these
>> apps for read-only Wikipedia even support the central-notice? I am not sure.
>> Some seem to completely convert the website to a magazine appearance; some
>> seem more like sleek web-browser.
>>
>> I can't help but think that WMF does't jump in soon with an inexpensive app
>> which solves the difficulties of navigation while preserving the facets of
>> the site that are important to WMF, it will be harder to recover the losses
>> if this trend of hardware takes hold. I imagine an official WMF app would
>> get some sort of preference when searching "wikipedia" in the App Store,
>> which is why I really think the foundation might want to attend to this.
>>
>> BirgitteSB
>>
>
> Birgitte,
>
> You are absolutely correct.
>
> Just as an additional option for Wikipedians who use the iPad, I'd point out
> this little trick that makes it easier to edit from the browser:
> http://blog.tommorris.org/post/5662997343/custom-css-for-wikipedia-on-ipad
>
> There are a whole host of opportunities and risks on mobile for Wikimedia.
> You've clearly been thinking about this, so I think it would be helpful if
> you could add your ideas to the relevant Talk pages on strategy wiki.[1] [2]
> If you could write in detail about your experiences with the iPad that would
> be helpful to the mobile team I'm sure, as a case study in user experience.
>
> I completely share your fears about Wikipedia in an app-centric world. In
> general I'm glad to say that I hear all the time at the Foundation about
> what the mobile team is doing.
>
> This isn't iPad-relevant per se, but they're in the middle of rewriting the
> mobile site and making sure that all mobile browsers actually redirect
> there. Another thing that will make things better is that Kul is hiring a
> person to develop partnerships with mobile businesses. That means that, with
> both app makers and big companies like carriers, we will have more of a
> fighting chance to make our feelings about edit buttons, donations, proper
> licensing attribution, and other issues heard. There are lots more, but if
> you have ideas please share.
>
> Steven
>
> 1. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Product_Whitepaper
> 2. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Ziko van Dijk
The Netherlands
http://zikoblog.wordpress.com/

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

James Alexander-4
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
I totally agree with Steven and I think we really want to make this easier
(especially for small edits). I use a nice app called "Wiki Edit" on my Ipad
(along with some random editing on the browser) which is actually pretty
nice (and handles wiki text well given the limitations). It works for
basically any mediawiki wiki. http://www.wikieditapp.com/

James

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:00 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:23 PM, "K. Peachey" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Why couldn't you edit it with the normal web browser in the ipad?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
> I could edit from a browser, but it was rather difficult.  That difficulty
> wasn't really important, but just what motivated me to look for an app.  The
> issue I was writing about was what I found when searched the app store for
> "Wikipedia".  People using many "wikipedia apps" can't edit because most of
> the apps don't support editing. And these apps have a lot of ratings and
> there are a variety of them. So people must be using them.
>
> BirgitteSB
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



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Community Fellow
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Amir E. Aharoni
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
2011/6/10  <[hidden email]>:
> In setting up my iPad this is what shocked me.
> It is near impossible to edit a wiki.  Well that wasn't
> to worrisome. I figured "there's an app for that".

I hate the whole idea of "apps" for accessing websites through iPhone,
iPad, Android, OVI or whatever. And i hate it with a passion. Websites
should be accessed through web browsers, not through a custom app for
every website and for every brand of mobile device.

Please report any difficulties with reading or editing Wikipedia
through your regular mobile web browser in Bugzilla (
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org ). If you never reported bugs through
Bugzilla, it may be a bit intimidating at first, but this is the right
thing to do for our websites and for the whole movement.

There's also the Mobile Feedback mailing list (
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-feedback-l ),
where people who don't use Bugzilla report bugs quite often.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
"We're living in pieces,
 I want to live in peace." - T. Moore

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Birgitte_sb
In reply to this post by James Alexander-4
Yes I eventually found that app.  And it is much superior to editing from the browser. But it doesn't support ProofreadPage extension. Still between the app and browser it is definitely workable with two edits. My concern is much more that the reading/navigation experience seems to be driving people to these apps which strip out all of the editing and maybe even WMF messaging. And these people must be genuinely interested in Wikipedia to download a special app for it. Probably people who are decent candidates to convert to editors.

BirgitteSB

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 10, 2011, at 10:48 AM, James Alexander <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I totally agree with Steven and I think we really want to make this easier
> (especially for small edits). I use a nice app called "Wiki Edit" on my Ipad
> (along with some random editing on the browser) which is actually pretty
> nice (and handles wiki text well given the limitations). It works for
> basically any mediawiki wiki. http://www.wikieditapp.com/
>
> James
>
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:00 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:23 PM, "K. Peachey" <[hidden email]> wrote
>>> Why couldn't you edit it with the normal web browser in the iPad
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>
>> I could edit from a browser, but it was rather difficult.  That difficulty
>> wasn't really important, but just what motivated me to look for an app.  The
>> issue I was writing about was what I found when searched the app store for
>> "Wikipedia".  People using many "wikipedia apps" can't edit because most of
>> the apps don't support editing. And these apps have a lot of ratings and
>> there are a variety of them. So people must be using them.
>>
>> BirgitteSB
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> James Alexander
> Community Fellow
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Birgitte_sb
In reply to this post by Amir E. Aharoni
You are third person to respond as if my email was about me personally looking for help editing. And the second to snip my writing out of all context.  Steven seemed to actually get what my concern was.  You can hate whatever you like, or dislike as the case may be.  It is not going to help WMF reach all the people who will be using apps despite your opinion.  I don't need any help, as I have figured out a workable solution. There are thousands of people, going by the ratings number, that are consuming Wikipedia in way that will make it very difficult to convert them editors and possibly even to communicate with them through banners. That is what concerns me.

BirgitteSB

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 10, 2011, at 12:58 PM, "Amir E. Aharoni" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2011/6/10  <[hidden email]>:
>> In setting up my iPad this is what shocked me.
>> It is near impossible to edit a wiki.  Well that wasn't
>> to worrisome. I figured "there's an app for that".
>
> I hate the whole idea of "apps" for accessing websites through iPhone,
> iPad, Android, OVI or whatever. And i hate it with a passion. Websites
> should be accessed through web browsers, not through a custom app for
> every website and for every brand of mobile device.
>
> Please report any difficulties with reading or editing Wikipedia
> through your regular mobile web browser in Bugzilla (
> http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org ). If you never reported bugs through
> Bugzilla, it may be a bit intimidating at first, but this is the right
> thing to do for our websites and for the whole movement.
>
> There's also the Mobile Feedback mailing list (
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-feedback-l ),
> where people who don't use Bugzilla report bugs quite often.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> "We're living in pieces,
>  I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Birgitte_sb
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
I forgot to say there are not website bugs, so much as browser bugs.  Or just an extremely different interface.  Perhaps a great mobile browser could be built to effectively kill apps. But is not something website changes could address. IMHO

BirgitteSB

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 10, 2011, at 6:14 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Yes I eventually found that app.  And it is much superior to editing from the browser. But it doesn't support ProofreadPage extension. Still between the app and browser it is definitely workable with two edits. My concern is much more that the reading/navigation experience seems to be driving people to these apps which strip out all of the editing and maybe even WMF messaging. And these people must be genuinely interested in Wikipedia to download a special app for it. Probably people who are decent candidates to convert to editors.
>
> BirgitteSB
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 10, 2011, at 10:48 AM, James Alexander <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I totally agree with Steven and I think we really want to make this easier
>> (especially for small edits). I use a nice app called "Wiki Edit" on my Ipad
>> (along with some random editing on the browser) which is actually pretty
>> nice (and handles wiki text well given the limitations). It works for
>> basically any mediawiki wiki. http://www.wikieditapp.com/
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:00 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:23 PM, "K. Peachey" <[hidden email]> wrote
>>>> Why couldn't you edit it with the normal web browser in the iPad
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>
>>> I could edit from a browser, but it was rather difficult.  That difficulty
>>> wasn't really important, but just what motivated me to look for an app.  The
>>> issue I was writing about was what I found when searched the app store for
>>> "Wikipedia".  People using many "wikipedia apps" can't edit because most of
>>> the apps don't support editing. And these apps have a lot of ratings and
>>> there are a variety of them. So people must be using them.
>>>
>>> BirgitteSB
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Alexander
>> Community Fellow
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

metasj
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
James - Wiki Edit is pretty nice.  Is this a one-man project by Don Kosak?

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 7:14 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yes I eventually found that app.  And it is much superior to editing from the browser. But it doesn't support ProofreadPage extension. Still between the app and browser it is definitely workable with two edits. My concern is much more that the reading/navigation experience seems to be driving people to these apps which strip out all of the editing and maybe even WMF messaging. And these people must be genuinely interested in Wikipedia to download a special app for it. Probably people who are decent candidates to convert to editors.

This is definitely a problem.  New readership is growing much faster
on mobile and tablet devices, and we don't have a single channel for
them to participate in the edting/reading/communicating community, as
you say.

On the positive side, we can find out a lot about people based on what
tool they are using to visit and browse the site, so we can directly
encourage them to become editors, or to download better apps/tools for
using the projects.

SJ

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
On 11 June 2011 00:27,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You are third person to respond as if my email was about me personally looking for help editing. And the second to snip my writing out of all context.  Steven seemed to actually get what my concern was.  You can hate whatever you like, or dislike as the case may be.  It is not going to help WMF reach all the people who will be using apps despite your opinion.  I don't need any help, as I have figured out a workable solution. There are thousands of people, going by the ratings number, that are consuming Wikipedia in way that will make it very difficult to convert them editors and possibly even to communicate with them through banners. That is what concerns me.


+1

This is the actual problem.

What would happen to a Bugzilla entry flagging systemic problems of
the sort Birgitte flags? It would get marked INVALID in short order.


- d.

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

metasj
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 5:55 PM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:


> This is the actual problem.
>
> What would happen to a Bugzilla entry flagging systemic problems of
> the sort Birgitte flags? It would get marked INVALID in short order.

I'm not sure this is true.
What about a Bugzilla tag flagging such problems?  There are many of
them, they need to be prioritized because each could be a large topic,
and they take effort to convert into smaller fixable problems.

SJ

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Amir E. Aharoni
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
2011/6/12 David Gerard <[hidden email]>:

> On 11 June 2011 00:27,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You are third person to respond as if my email was about me personally looking for help editing. And the second to snip my writing out of all context.  Steven seemed to actually get what my concern was.  You can hate whatever you like, or dislike as the case may be.  It is not going to help WMF reach all the people who will be using apps despite your opinion.  I don't need any help, as I have figured out a workable solution. There are thousands of people, going by the ratings number, that are consuming Wikipedia in way that will make it very difficult to convert them editors and possibly even to communicate with them through banners. That is what concerns me.
>
>
> +1
>
> This is the actual problem.
>
> What would happen to a Bugzilla entry flagging systemic problems of
> the sort Birgitte flags? It would get marked INVALID in short order.

I'm not talking about systemic problems. A particular bug saying "It's
hard/impossible to edit Wikipedia using device X, because the Save
button is too small" is perfectly valid. Even if it's a bug in the
browser of that device - that's what upstream is for. I have at least
one example of productive communication between MediaWiki developers
and Mozilla developers [1] and i'm sure that there's more.

An app may be a temporary solution when all else fails, but submitting
to this ecosystem, which causes the proliferation of non-standard,
over-customized and often proprietary solutions is not the way to go.

[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=629878

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
"We're living in pieces,
 I want to live in peace." - T. Moore

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Tomasz Finc-2
In reply to this post by metasj
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Samuel Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:
> James - Wiki Edit is pretty nice.  Is this a one-man project by Don Kosak?
>
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 7:14 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Yes I eventually found that app.  And it is much superior to editing from the browser. But it doesn't support ProofreadPage extension. Still between the app and browser it is definitely workable with two edits. My concern is much more that the reading/navigation experience seems to be driving people to these apps which strip out all of the editing and maybe even WMF messaging. And these people must be genuinely interested in Wikipedia to download a special app for it. Probably people who are decent candidates to convert to editors.
>
> This is definitely a problem.  New readership is growing much faster
> on mobile and tablet devices, and we don't have a single channel for
> them to participate in the edting/reading/communicating community, as
> you say.

+1 And this is something that I think about A LOT. This is why were
laying down the engineering work right now to make it much simpler to
build out browser based community, editing, and reading features. Our
current setup of the Ruby gateway has scaled much better then we could
have ever expected but its also complicated our operations setup,
required extra time to port any features over to ruby, and generally
required a whole separate development cycle to build out anything
mobile related. Over the last two months we've hired a dedicated
mobile engineer, ported the gateway, reached out to community members,
and ran an intensive research study to help us where we should be
focusing our resources. The community has also been busy working on
mobile. We've seen both and Android and iOS app show up for uploading
images to commons.

I fully believe that mobile development is a key strategic area for us
to reach new contributors and I'm super happy that were taking it
seriously. It's going to mean experimenting and trying lots of new and
old things to see what works best.

Looking at apps vs browser I'm really eager to reach as many people as
possible and these days there is nothing as ubiquitous and standards
compliant as a web browser. Most phones have them and even if their a
pain in the ass to develop for they've allowed us to reach so many
people. That being said, apps provide a very interesting place to
experiment with different ways of both presenting and interacting with
content. As others have pointed out on this thread there are a number
of really novel approaches to visualizing Wikipedia content and I
think we can learn a lot from them. Not all of them are collaborative
and thus won't fit into our strategy but ones like WikEdit do and i'd
love to see more examples like them. Were going to learn a lot from
their approaches and vice versa.

It's going to take working with both ends to really understand what
works best and I'm eager to see it.

As always .. come by to our mobile project pages on meta at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Projects and let us know how we
can best iterate and improve.

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Strainu
2011/6/14 Tomasz Finc <[hidden email]>:
> As always .. come by to our mobile project pages on meta at
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Projects and let us know how we
> can best iterate and improve.

I see no mention there of a roadmap for mobile editing, which I think
was the main issue BirgitteSB raised. Do you have a plan for that in
the future?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

Tomasz Finc-2
Totally,

Getting the platform in place is step one. Next we get to prioritize
surfacing more reading features vs. adding more editing features. I'll
add a calendar of what the current discussions have looked like so
that everyone can easily see them.

--tomasz



On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:32 AM, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2011/6/14 Tomasz Finc <[hidden email]>:
>> As always .. come by to our mobile project pages on meta at
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Projects and let us know how we
>> can best iterate and improve.
>
> I see no mention there of a roadmap for mobile editing, which I think
> was the main issue BirgitteSB raised. Do you have a plan for that in
> the future?
>
> Thanks,
>  Strainu
>
> _______________________________________________
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