Fwd: Twitter Translation Center closing -- contacts needed

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Fwd: Twitter Translation Center closing -- contacts needed

metasj
An inquiry from a friend, about a parallel translator community.  

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Amy Johnson" <[hidden email]>

As of November 30, 2017, Twitter is shuttering its Translation Center. Since 2011, the Translation Center has been a collaborative project, a public endeavor that has brought together volunteer translators from around the world. These translators have made Twitter accessible for millions of others. With the closure of the Translation Center, the specifics of their work -- the long debates, the compromises, the new challenges -- are about to vanish.

Why should we care? There are a lot of reasons. Their work is magnificent and deserves to be recorded in history, not quietly erased. Their work (and similar) challenges major theories of translation, opening fresh possibilities for better and different translation in the future. (Translation studies scholars are enormously excited -- see, e.g. Miguel A. Jiménez-Crespo's body of work on Facebook).

At the moment, a few -- very few -- pages from the Translation Center are already archived in the Internet Archive. Unfortunately, there's so much missing, from so many languages. I'm hoping that the translator community might change that. unfortunately ever since Nov 1 they've only been allowing public access to people who had already established accounts, so I can't discuss this directly on the site.

Do any of you know of people who have worked with the Translation Center who might be interested in such? Or have an alternative suggestion about how I could access the site to propose this project?

Thanks in advance!

Best,
Amy

---
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Re: Fwd: Twitter Translation Center closing -- contacts needed

Amir E. Aharoni
Drat. I participated in the translation as a translator and a moderator. The closure of the moderators community was announced a few months ago, but the volunteer translation interface stayed alive. The total closure of the translation interface wasn't even announced to the old timers. This is really sad and wrong, and I can't understand the business logic in this.

Having their own custom software for translation is really not very smart, though. I hope they come to their senses, nicely archive the old site, and then move to some other site, such as Transifex, OneSky, or Pootle.

Despite being a former moderator, I can't think of anything smarter to reply, other than ranting :(

בתאריך 25 בנוב׳ 2017 18:38,‏ "Samuel Klein" <[hidden email]> כתב:
An inquiry from a friend, about a parallel translator community.  

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Amy Johnson" <[hidden email]>

As of November 30, 2017, Twitter is shuttering its Translation Center. Since 2011, the Translation Center has been a collaborative project, a public endeavor that has brought together volunteer translators from around the world. These translators have made Twitter accessible for millions of others. With the closure of the Translation Center, the specifics of their work -- the long debates, the compromises, the new challenges -- are about to vanish.

Why should we care? There are a lot of reasons. Their work is magnificent and deserves to be recorded in history, not quietly erased. Their work (and similar) challenges major theories of translation, opening fresh possibilities for better and different translation in the future. (Translation studies scholars are enormously excited -- see, e.g. Miguel A. Jiménez-Crespo's body of work on Facebook).

At the moment, a few -- very few -- pages from the Translation Center are already archived in the Internet Archive. Unfortunately, there's so much missing, from so many languages. I'm hoping that the translator community might change that. unfortunately ever since Nov 1 they've only been allowing public access to people who had already established accounts, so I can't discuss this directly on the site.

Do any of you know of people who have worked with the Translation Center who might be interested in such? Or have an alternative suggestion about how I could access the site to propose this project?

Thanks in advance!

Best,
Amy

---
@shrapnelofme



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Re: Fwd: Twitter Translation Center closing -- contacts needed

Philippe Verdy
In reply to this post by metasj
It's true that shutting down such service which was based essentially on work made by a large worldwide community is a bad sign. At least Twitter should release all their current efforts in an open-sourced repository with an open licence without commercial restrictions, possibly with attribution (BSD-like, CC-BY) or with some basic share-alike or copyleft requirements (ODbL, CC-BY-SA, GPL, LGPL), or left completely free (CC-0, Public domain, WTFPL).
Shutting down the service compeltely and reasing the data would be an insult to those that participated and from which Twitter benefited a lot.

We can understand that Twitter no logner wants to support it directly itself and wants to save some costs, but there are certainly interesting data to keep which could be reused in a possibly larger project as a translation memory and corpus useful for many other free (of commercial) translation engines. It's up to Twitter to choose their opensource repository provider (such as GitHub), make the decessary licencing requirements, and possibly open a competition to transfer the administration of the project to some organized open groups (if the project does not have to be left in readonly with no further development and can be resurrected by independant groups creating their own branches or integrating the data in their own corpus). For that, Twitter should ask their community about the pros and cons of several candidate licences.

And may be Twitter will continue to be able to profit from the resurrected or derivated projects (but it will jsut no longer be alone to use it).

2017-11-25 17:37 GMT+01:00 Samuel Klein <[hidden email]>:
An inquiry from a friend, about a parallel translator community.  

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Amy Johnson" <[hidden email]>

As of November 30, 2017, Twitter is shuttering its Translation Center. Since 2011, the Translation Center has been a collaborative project, a public endeavor that has brought together volunteer translators from around the world. These translators have made Twitter accessible for millions of others. With the closure of the Translation Center, the specifics of their work -- the long debates, the compromises, the new challenges -- are about to vanish.

Why should we care? There are a lot of reasons. Their work is magnificent and deserves to be recorded in history, not quietly erased. Their work (and similar) challenges major theories of translation, opening fresh possibilities for better and different translation in the future. (Translation studies scholars are enormously excited -- see, e.g. Miguel A. Jiménez-Crespo's body of work on Facebook).

At the moment, a few -- very few -- pages from the Translation Center are already archived in the Internet Archive. Unfortunately, there's so much missing, from so many languages. I'm hoping that the translator community might change that. unfortunately ever since Nov 1 they've only been allowing public access to people who had already established accounts, so I can't discuss this directly on the site.

Do any of you know of people who have worked with the Translation Center who might be interested in such? Or have an alternative suggestion about how I could access the site to propose this project?

Thanks in advance!

Best,
Amy

---
@shrapnelofme



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Re: Fwd: Twitter Translation Center closing -- contacts needed

Philippe Verdy
In reply to this post by Amir E. Aharoni


2017-11-25 17:47 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni <[hidden email]>:
Drat. I participated in the translation as a translator and a moderator. The closure of the moderators community was announced a few months ago, but the volunteer translation interface stayed alive. The total closure of the translation interface wasn't even announced to the old timers. This is really sad and wrong, and I can't understand the business logic in this.

Having their own custom software for translation is really not very smart, though. I hope they come to their senses, nicely archive the old site, and then move to some other site, such as Transifex, OneSky, or Pootle.

Despite being a former moderator, I can't think of anything smarter to reply, other than ranting :(

That's waht ahappens when a commerial company advertizes that it creates a community project and wants thme to contibute and give their work time but can shutdown it without notice.

Twitter is alone not to do that (think about Google Map and its very unfair terms against the contributors that Google wants to involve to do free work: Google could also shutdown this at any time, and Google Mappers won't have any benefit, only Google wins)... So yes we can be ranting: we should clearly continue to campaign against these pseudo open projects lead in fact by corporates using unfair practices, only to increase their global audience, then become a global facility that will then be licended only for very limited use and with multiple filters (such as hiding relevant data and replacing it by commercial placements where those that want to be visible MUST pay an increasing price without any added value).


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Re: Fwd: Twitter Translation Center closing -- contacts needed

Vi to
I always dreamt of a free repository of structured translations (let's say a wikidata of translations), maybe that's the time.

Vito

2017-11-25 18:19 GMT+01:00 Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]>:


2017-11-25 17:47 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni <[hidden email]>:
Drat. I participated in the translation as a translator and a moderator. The closure of the moderators community was announced a few months ago, but the volunteer translation interface stayed alive. The total closure of the translation interface wasn't even announced to the old timers. This is really sad and wrong, and I can't understand the business logic in this.

Having their own custom software for translation is really not very smart, though. I hope they come to their senses, nicely archive the old site, and then move to some other site, such as Transifex, OneSky, or Pootle.

Despite being a former moderator, I can't think of anything smarter to reply, other than ranting :(

That's waht ahappens when a commerial company advertizes that it creates a community project and wants thme to contibute and give their work time but can shutdown it without notice.

Twitter is alone not to do that (think about Google Map and its very unfair terms against the contributors that Google wants to involve to do free work: Google could also shutdown this at any time, and Google Mappers won't have any benefit, only Google wins)... So yes we can be ranting: we should clearly continue to campaign against these pseudo open projects lead in fact by corporates using unfair practices, only to increase their global audience, then become a global facility that will then be licended only for very limited use and with multiple filters (such as hiding relevant data and replacing it by commercial placements where those that want to be visible MUST pay an increasing price without any added value).


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Re: Fwd: Twitter Translation Center closing -- contacts needed

Maria Neofytou
We could begin a ranting. Like a special hashtag that will go viral. At least to have Twitter make those data open. 

"We can understand that Twitter no logner wants to support it directly itself and wants to save some costs, but there are certainly interesting data to keep which could be reused in a possibly larger project as a translation memory and corpus useful for many other free (of commercial) translation engines.” 

i couldn’t agree more with this. We can do something!


On 26 Nov 2017, at 09:28, Vi to <[hidden email]> wrote:

I always dreamt of a free repository of structured translations (let's say a wikidata of translations), maybe that's the time.

Vito

2017-11-25 18:19 GMT+01:00 Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]>:


2017-11-25 17:47 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni <[hidden email]>:
Drat. I participated in the translation as a translator and a moderator. The closure of the moderators community was announced a few months ago, but the volunteer translation interface stayed alive. The total closure of the translation interface wasn't even announced to the old timers. This is really sad and wrong, and I can't understand the business logic in this.

Having their own custom software for translation is really not very smart, though. I hope they come to their senses, nicely archive the old site, and then move to some other site, such as Transifex, OneSky, or Pootle.

Despite being a former moderator, I can't think of anything smarter to reply, other than ranting :(

That's waht ahappens when a commerial company advertizes that it creates a community project and wants thme to contibute and give their work time but can shutdown it without notice.

Twitter is alone not to do that (think about Google Map and its very unfair terms against the contributors that Google wants to involve to do free work: Google could also shutdown this at any time, and Google Mappers won't have any benefit, only Google wins)... So yes we can be ranting: we should clearly continue to campaign against these pseudo open projects lead in fact by corporates using unfair practices, only to increase their global audience, then become a global facility that will then be licended only for very limited use and with multiple filters (such as hiding relevant data and replacing it by commercial placements where those that want to be visible MUST pay an increasing price without any added value).


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Re: Fwd: Twitter Translation Center closing -- contacts needed

Philippe Verdy
It's not enough and really unfair for them to ask for contribution to all their users, and not open their coordinated data. Just giving some minor exclusive advantages (such as ranks or icons that will render on their own private website for user profiles) is clearly not enough.

We should also campaign against all companies that do such requests to their online communities without really opening the data generated. I am convinced these are abusive practices. They should turn their project to a realy opensource/opendata with commonly accepted licences (attribution is OK, but restrictions such as non-derivatives or non-commercial usage, or required permission for massive reuse, including in competing products, is coimpeltely unfair: they do that only to avoid having to pay regular professional translators and extend their audience rapidly then get more profits and start selling their products at higher prices and create exclusive products that will be sold at expensierve price and based on these translation products);

So yes, Twitter has now created its own translation engine with a large text corpus (harvested from communications by billions users) and now it thinks he no longer needs to thank them.

And we should not just rant against Twitter. We have to ask for this return of cooperative translation efforts (an other mass contribution of data) to Facebook, Google, Bing, which are doing the same, or to various government agencies that want people to contribute to their data without opening them with open data licences ! These have created extremely powerful "'big data" tool that can take control all our life wherever we go and whatever we do. They are too powerful, citizens and competitors MUST be able to reuse this "big data" which is collected. Not "collected", I'd prefer to say really : "stolen" to allow them to steal us more "with our permission" (but do we really have the choice when they have created dependencies, and killed all small competititors using abusively low pricing tactics to create their monopole and a public dependency ?).

Look also at what happened in ISO : open standards now abused everywhere and made mandatory but full of patent restrictions and hidden costs. I rant also against the MPEG LA that have infected the whole IT industry with thir many undisclosed patents when they promoted the adoption of their solutions in worldwide ISO standards.


2017-11-26 9:50 GMT+01:00 Maria Neofytou <[hidden email]>:
We could begin a ranting. Like a special hashtag that will go viral. At least to have Twitter make those data open. 

"We can understand that Twitter no logner wants to support it directly itself and wants to save some costs, but there are certainly interesting data to keep which could be reused in a possibly larger project as a translation memory and corpus useful for many other free (of commercial) translation engines.” 

i couldn’t agree more with this. We can do something!


On 26 Nov 2017, at 09:28, Vi to <[hidden email]> wrote:

I always dreamt of a free repository of structured translations (let's say a wikidata of translations), maybe that's the time.

Vito

2017-11-25 18:19 GMT+01:00 Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]>:


2017-11-25 17:47 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni <[hidden email]>:
Drat. I participated in the translation as a translator and a moderator. The closure of the moderators community was announced a few months ago, but the volunteer translation interface stayed alive. The total closure of the translation interface wasn't even announced to the old timers. This is really sad and wrong, and I can't understand the business logic in this.

Having their own custom software for translation is really not very smart, though. I hope they come to their senses, nicely archive the old site, and then move to some other site, such as Transifex, OneSky, or Pootle.

Despite being a former moderator, I can't think of anything smarter to reply, other than ranting :(

That's waht ahappens when a commerial company advertizes that it creates a community project and wants thme to contibute and give their work time but can shutdown it without notice.

Twitter is alone not to do that (think about Google Map and its very unfair terms against the contributors that Google wants to involve to do free work: Google could also shutdown this at any time, and Google Mappers won't have any benefit, only Google wins)... So yes we can be ranting: we should clearly continue to campaign against these pseudo open projects lead in fact by corporates using unfair practices, only to increase their global audience, then become a global facility that will then be licended only for very limited use and with multiple filters (such as hiding relevant data and replacing it by commercial placements where those that want to be visible MUST pay an increasing price without any added value).


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Re: Fwd: Twitter Translation Center closing -- contacts needed

Anna e só
I am sorry to hear about the Translation Center, it was a really nice initiative.

It bothers me how some translation platforms don't talk with each other. As I get involved with more projects based on decentralization (for instance, Mastodon), I wish more and more to see this model being widely adopted. The software that runs certain service doesn't need to be the same for every server (as it happens with diaspora*, GNU Social and Mastodon), but they should be able to communicate back and forth in the federation. With open licenses and repositories helping us to retrieve the data if one server decides to end its services, keeping an open archive could also be easier.

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's not enough and really unfair for them to ask for contribution to all their users, and not open their coordinated data. Just giving some minor exclusive advantages (such as ranks or icons that will render on their own private website for user profiles) is clearly not enough.

We should also campaign against all companies that do such requests to their online communities without really opening the data generated. I am convinced these are abusive practices. They should turn their project to a realy opensource/opendata with commonly accepted licences (attribution is OK, but restrictions such as non-derivatives or non-commercial usage, or required permission for massive reuse, including in competing products, is coimpeltely unfair: they do that only to avoid having to pay regular professional translators and extend their audience rapidly then get more profits and start selling their products at higher prices and create exclusive products that will be sold at expensierve price and based on these translation products);

So yes, Twitter has now created its own translation engine with a large text corpus (harvested from communications by billions users) and now it thinks he no longer needs to thank them.

And we should not just rant against Twitter. We have to ask for this return of cooperative translation efforts (an other mass contribution of data) to Facebook, Google, Bing, which are doing the same, or to various government agencies that want people to contribute to their data without opening them with open data licences ! These have created extremely powerful "'big data" tool that can take control all our life wherever we go and whatever we do. They are too powerful, citizens and competitors MUST be able to reuse this "big data" which is collected. Not "collected", I'd prefer to say really : "stolen" to allow them to steal us more "with our permission" (but do we really have the choice when they have created dependencies, and killed all small competititors using abusively low pricing tactics to create their monopole and a public dependency ?).

Look also at what happened in ISO : open standards now abused everywhere and made mandatory but full of patent restrictions and hidden costs. I rant also against the MPEG LA that have infected the whole IT industry with thir many undisclosed patents when they promoted the adoption of their solutions in worldwide ISO standards.


2017-11-26 9:50 GMT+01:00 Maria Neofytou <[hidden email]>:
We could begin a ranting. Like a special hashtag that will go viral. At least to have Twitter make those data open. 

"We can understand that Twitter no logner wants to support it directly itself and wants to save some costs, but there are certainly interesting data to keep which could be reused in a possibly larger project as a translation memory and corpus useful for many other free (of commercial) translation engines.” 

i couldn’t agree more with this. We can do something!


On 26 Nov 2017, at 09:28, Vi to <[hidden email]> wrote:

I always dreamt of a free repository of structured translations (let's say a wikidata of translations), maybe that's the time.

Vito

2017-11-25 18:19 GMT+01:00 Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]>:


2017-11-25 17:47 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni <[hidden email]>:
Drat. I participated in the translation as a translator and a moderator. The closure of the moderators community was announced a few months ago, but the volunteer translation interface stayed alive. The total closure of the translation interface wasn't even announced to the old timers. This is really sad and wrong, and I can't understand the business logic in this.

Having their own custom software for translation is really not very smart, though. I hope they come to their senses, nicely archive the old site, and then move to some other site, such as Transifex, OneSky, or Pootle.

Despite being a former moderator, I can't think of anything smarter to reply, other than ranting :(

That's waht ahappens when a commerial company advertizes that it creates a community project and wants thme to contibute and give their work time but can shutdown it without notice.

Twitter is alone not to do that (think about Google Map and its very unfair terms against the contributors that Google wants to involve to do free work: Google could also shutdown this at any time, and Google Mappers won't have any benefit, only Google wins)... So yes we can be ranting: we should clearly continue to campaign against these pseudo open projects lead in fact by corporates using unfair practices, only to increase their global audience, then become a global facility that will then be licended only for very limited use and with multiple filters (such as hiding relevant data and replacing it by commercial placements where those that want to be visible MUST pay an increasing price without any added value).


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Re: Fwd: Twitter Translation Center closing -- contacts needed

Chris Koerner-2
>At the moment, a few -- very few -- pages from the Translation Center are already archived in the Internet Archive. Unfortunately, there's so much missing, from so many languages.

Has anyone been in contact with the Internet Archive to see if they
can assist in the archiving of content before the deadline? Perhaps
the Archive Team can provide more advice?

http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
Yours,
Chris Koerner
Community Liaison
Wikimedia Foundation


On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Anna e só <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am sorry to hear about the Translation Center, it was a really nice
> initiative.
>
> It bothers me how some translation platforms don't talk with each other. As
> I get involved with more projects based on decentralization (for instance,
> Mastodon), I wish more and more to see this model being widely adopted. The
> software that runs certain service doesn't need to be the same for every
> server (as it happens with diaspora*, GNU Social and Mastodon), but they
> should be able to communicate back and forth in the federation. With open
> licenses and repositories helping us to retrieve the data if one server
> decides to end its services, keeping an open archive could also be easier.
>
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It's not enough and really unfair for them to ask for contribution to all
>> their users, and not open their coordinated data. Just giving some minor
>> exclusive advantages (such as ranks or icons that will render on their own
>> private website for user profiles) is clearly not enough.
>>
>> We should also campaign against all companies that do such requests to
>> their online communities without really opening the data generated. I am
>> convinced these are abusive practices. They should turn their project to a
>> realy opensource/opendata with commonly accepted licences (attribution is
>> OK, but restrictions such as non-derivatives or non-commercial usage, or
>> required permission for massive reuse, including in competing products, is
>> coimpeltely unfair: they do that only to avoid having to pay regular
>> professional translators and extend their audience rapidly then get more
>> profits and start selling their products at higher prices and create
>> exclusive products that will be sold at expensierve price and based on these
>> translation products);
>>
>> So yes, Twitter has now created its own translation engine with a large
>> text corpus (harvested from communications by billions users) and now it
>> thinks he no longer needs to thank them.
>>
>> And we should not just rant against Twitter. We have to ask for this
>> return of cooperative translation efforts (an other mass contribution of
>> data) to Facebook, Google, Bing, which are doing the same, or to various
>> government agencies that want people to contribute to their data without
>> opening them with open data licences ! These have created extremely powerful
>> "'big data" tool that can take control all our life wherever we go and
>> whatever we do. They are too powerful, citizens and competitors MUST be able
>> to reuse this "big data" which is collected. Not "collected", I'd prefer to
>> say really : "stolen" to allow them to steal us more "with our permission"
>> (but do we really have the choice when they have created dependencies, and
>> killed all small competititors using abusively low pricing tactics to create
>> their monopole and a public dependency ?).
>>
>> Look also at what happened in ISO : open standards now abused everywhere
>> and made mandatory but full of patent restrictions and hidden costs. I rant
>> also against the MPEG LA that have infected the whole IT industry with thir
>> many undisclosed patents when they promoted the adoption of their solutions
>> in worldwide ISO standards.
>>
>>
>> 2017-11-26 9:50 GMT+01:00 Maria Neofytou <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> We could begin a ranting. Like a special hashtag that will go viral. At
>>> least to have Twitter make those data open.
>>>
>>> "We can understand that Twitter no logner wants to support it directly
>>> itself and wants to save some costs, but there are certainly interesting
>>> data to keep which could be reused in a possibly larger project as a
>>> translation memory and corpus useful for many other free (of commercial)
>>> translation engines.”
>>>
>>> i couldn’t agree more with this. We can do something!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26 Nov 2017, at 09:28, Vi to <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I always dreamt of a free repository of structured translations (let's
>>> say a wikidata of translations), maybe that's the time.
>>>
>>> Vito
>>>
>>> 2017-11-25 18:19 GMT+01:00 Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2017-11-25 17:47 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni
>>>> <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Drat. I participated in the translation as a translator and a
>>>>> moderator. The closure of the moderators community was announced a few
>>>>> months ago, but the volunteer translation interface stayed alive. The total
>>>>> closure of the translation interface wasn't even announced to the old
>>>>> timers. This is really sad and wrong, and I can't understand the business
>>>>> logic in this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having their own custom software for translation is really not very
>>>>> smart, though. I hope they come to their senses, nicely archive the old
>>>>> site, and then move to some other site, such as Transifex, OneSky, or
>>>>> Pootle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite being a former moderator, I can't think of anything smarter to
>>>>> reply, other than ranting :(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's waht ahappens when a commerial company advertizes that it creates
>>>> a community project and wants thme to contibute and give their work time but
>>>> can shutdown it without notice.
>>>>
>>>> Twitter is alone not to do that (think about Google Map and its very
>>>> unfair terms against the contributors that Google wants to involve to do
>>>> free work: Google could also shutdown this at any time, and Google Mappers
>>>> won't have any benefit, only Google wins)... So yes we can be ranting: we
>>>> should clearly continue to campaign against these pseudo open projects lead
>>>> in fact by corporates using unfair practices, only to increase their global
>>>> audience, then become a global facility that will then be licended only for
>>>> very limited use and with multiple filters (such as hiding relevant data and
>>>> replacing it by commercial placements where those that want to be visible
>>>> MUST pay an increasing price without any added value).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Translators-l mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>>>>
>>>
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