Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

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Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

praveenp
Hi,

[ Since my question was repeatedly handled as my desperation of inability to achieve the scholarship, I had to wait until Wikimania finished. :-) And also this is not about someone going to Wikimanias again and again, it is about granting Wikimania scholarships to same persons again and again]

I hope I could ask some questions directly:

* Why scholarship committee selecting same persons again and again for years?
* What are the advantages to local community / Wikimedia of having a "permanent" Wikimania scholarship holder?
* Why no regular Wikimedian get any scholarship, eventhough a developer's wife got scholarships in multiple years even without any kind of significant contributions?
* Is this scholarship committee solely depend on the "selling point" provided by the applicant?
* Even now none of the Wikimanians shared anything with our community about Wikimania, we even didn't see them anywhere near wikis. Did they attend the Wikimania? How could we get their contributions to the Mania?

A slightly elaborated conversation is attached below (direction: bottom to top), I got no clarity even after that. Please help.

Thanks and Regards,
Praveen P
User:Praveenp (ml.wp, commons, translatewiki)




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
Date: 4 May 2015 at 11:17
Subject: Re: Wikimania Scholarship
To: praveenp <[hidden email]>


Hoi,
I know the WMF, it does not pull pranks like that to the best of my knowledge. I would not even be surprised that there is a ticket for the exact issue that you highlighted. (I am not looking for one, I have interest). My point is again, it is NOT about having great language skills, it is not about how often someone went. It is about how much of a difference you may make at the conference. Preparing a speech is the way I have done it and so can you.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 4 May 2015 at 07:16, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

My point is not about someone going to Wikimanias again and again, it is about Wikimania scholarships are granted to same persons again and again. According to your argument persons with better language skill would be granted scholarship, and there is nothing wrong with it. IMO that is against Wikimedia philosophy and ethics. A scholarship committee is for assessing applicants through various ways. If they solely depend the "selling" point given by the applicant, there shouldn't be this scholarship committee :-).

Consider this private post by me (I've added you), which is about a server error in application[1]: https://plus.google.com/+praveenp/posts/XtB1b9fmqcZ
This roughly translates as, "I tried to apply Wikimania Scholarship, even server told me - F*** you". It was 19 January, and I was pretty sure that I wouldn't get any scholarship. I saw couple of other similar posts sharing same feeling. We are not Nostradamus :-) but we just know. And also it did happen just as we expected.

I doubted that whether this should be shared or not (As you've clarified, this can easily be marked as inability to achieve scholarship). But on second thought, if this happened on ml.wikipedia, this would happened on every other projects.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

[1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T87182



On Sunday 03 May 2015 02:02 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
I have been to many Wikimanias myself. At every one of them I gave a presentation and I made it a point to have an idea of what it is that I achieved while being there. Your point is that the same people have been there, that is in and of itself not so relevant. It is what they achieved, it is how they networked. When people are known to be good at that, you will find that they often return to Wikimania.

This year I do not have the bandwidth to go to Wikimania so I did not apply, I did not prepare a presentation even though it is trivially easy for me to do so. 

When you want to go to Wikimania, make sure that you are clear why you want to go, what you intend to achieve and make that obvious. That is why you may be selected for a grant. There is no justification in all the good work that you do when you cannot or do not express how going to Wikimania makes a difference.

You have to sell this idea. There is no point in comparing yourself with others. They hope to achieve what they hope to achieve..
Thanks,
       GerardM

On 3 May 2015 at 09:57, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

It is hard for me to digest that scholarship committee is selecting same persons again and again for last 6 or 7 years. I just put myself as an example but I am sure there were many others have applied. :-)

Regards,
Praveen. P







On Sunday 03 May 2015 01:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
Good to hear from you.. There are no policies except for the ones that you know of as well. Obviously it makes a difference when you are able to sell the reason why you should go to Wikimania. If someone does a better job than you ... what can I say.

The most obvious and easy way to get in is to submit proposals for a talk, a workshop or anything else that shows that you want to achieve something..
Hope that helps :)
Have fun
     Gerard

On 3 May 2015 at 09:38, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I don't know whether you are the right person but I truly believe you may have some ideas to answer my doubt :-) If I remember correctly, I did apply Wikimania scholarship last couple of years but never got one. :-(  However every year User:Viswaprabha got scholarship even with his minimal wiki contributions. I know he is a great e-mail generator, but other than that I really wish to know whether there are any policies which restrict new people from getting scholarship.

As you may know I translate Mediawiki, edit Wikipedia articles, file bugs, translate and contribute to commons, actively participate discussions (mostly as devils advocate :-) ) etc.. None of it never counts.



Regards,

Praveen. P
User:Praveenp








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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Osmar Valdebenito-3
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.

2015-07-30 16:16 GMT-03:00 praveenp <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

[ Since my question was repeatedly handled as my desperation of inability to achieve the scholarship, I had to wait until Wikimania finished. :-) And also this is not about someone going to Wikimanias again and again, it is about granting Wikimania scholarships to same persons again and again]

I hope I could ask some questions directly:

* Why scholarship committee selecting same persons again and again for years?
* What are the advantages to local community / Wikimedia of having a "permanent" Wikimania scholarship holder?
* Why no regular Wikimedian get any scholarship, eventhough a developer's wife got scholarships in multiple years even without any kind of significant contributions?
* Is this scholarship committee solely depend on the "selling point" provided by the applicant?
* Even now none of the Wikimanians shared anything with our community about Wikimania, we even didn't see them anywhere near wikis. Did they attend the Wikimania? How could we get their contributions to the Mania?

A slightly elaborated conversation is attached below (direction: bottom to top), I got no clarity even after that. Please help.

Thanks and Regards,
Praveen P
User:Praveenp (ml.wp, commons, translatewiki)




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
Date: 4 May 2015 at 11:17
Subject: Re: Wikimania Scholarship
To: praveenp <[hidden email]>


Hoi,
I know the WMF, it does not pull pranks like that to the best of my knowledge. I would not even be surprised that there is a ticket for the exact issue that you highlighted. (I am not looking for one, I have interest). My point is again, it is NOT about having great language skills, it is not about how often someone went. It is about how much of a difference you may make at the conference. Preparing a speech is the way I have done it and so can you.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 4 May 2015 at 07:16, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

My point is not about someone going to Wikimanias again and again, it is about Wikimania scholarships are granted to same persons again and again. According to your argument persons with better language skill would be granted scholarship, and there is nothing wrong with it. IMO that is against Wikimedia philosophy and ethics. A scholarship committee is for assessing applicants through various ways. If they solely depend the "selling" point given by the applicant, there shouldn't be this scholarship committee :-).

Consider this private post by me (I've added you), which is about a server error in application[1]: https://plus.google.com/+praveenp/posts/XtB1b9fmqcZ
This roughly translates as, "I tried to apply Wikimania Scholarship, even server told me - F*** you". It was 19 January, and I was pretty sure that I wouldn't get any scholarship. I saw couple of other similar posts sharing same feeling. We are not Nostradamus :-) but we just know. And also it did happen just as we expected.

I doubted that whether this should be shared or not (As you've clarified, this can easily be marked as inability to achieve scholarship). But on second thought, if this happened on ml.wikipedia, this would happened on every other projects.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

[1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T87182



On Sunday 03 May 2015 02:02 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
I have been to many Wikimanias myself. At every one of them I gave a presentation and I made it a point to have an idea of what it is that I achieved while being there. Your point is that the same people have been there, that is in and of itself not so relevant. It is what they achieved, it is how they networked. When people are known to be good at that, you will find that they often return to Wikimania.

This year I do not have the bandwidth to go to Wikimania so I did not apply, I did not prepare a presentation even though it is trivially easy for me to do so. 

When you want to go to Wikimania, make sure that you are clear why you want to go, what you intend to achieve and make that obvious. That is why you may be selected for a grant. There is no justification in all the good work that you do when you cannot or do not express how going to Wikimania makes a difference.

You have to sell this idea. There is no point in comparing yourself with others. They hope to achieve what they hope to achieve..
Thanks,
       GerardM

On 3 May 2015 at 09:57, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

It is hard for me to digest that scholarship committee is selecting same persons again and again for last 6 or 7 years. I just put myself as an example but I am sure there were many others have applied. :-)

Regards,
Praveen. P







On Sunday 03 May 2015 01:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
Good to hear from you.. There are no policies except for the ones that you know of as well. Obviously it makes a difference when you are able to sell the reason why you should go to Wikimania. If someone does a better job than you ... what can I say.

The most obvious and easy way to get in is to submit proposals for a talk, a workshop or anything else that shows that you want to achieve something..
Hope that helps :)
Have fun
     Gerard

On 3 May 2015 at 09:38, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I don't know whether you are the right person but I truly believe you may have some ideas to answer my doubt :-) If I remember correctly, I did apply Wikimania scholarship last couple of years but never got one. :-(  However every year User:Viswaprabha got scholarship even with his minimal wiki contributions. I know he is a great e-mail generator, but other than that I really wish to know whether there are any policies which restrict new people from getting scholarship.

As you may know I translate Mediawiki, edit Wikipedia articles, file bugs, translate and contribute to commons, actively participate discussions (mostly as devils advocate :-) ) etc.. None of it never counts.



Regards,

Praveen. P
User:Praveenp








_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l



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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Amir Sarabadani-2
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.

2015-07-30 16:16 GMT-03:00 praveenp <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

[ Since my question was repeatedly handled as my desperation of inability to achieve the scholarship, I had to wait until Wikimania finished. :-) And also this is not about someone going to Wikimanias again and again, it is about granting Wikimania scholarships to same persons again and again]

I hope I could ask some questions directly:

* Why scholarship committee selecting same persons again and again for years?
* What are the advantages to local community / Wikimedia of having a "permanent" Wikimania scholarship holder?
* Why no regular Wikimedian get any scholarship, eventhough a developer's wife got scholarships in multiple years even without any kind of significant contributions?
* Is this scholarship committee solely depend on the "selling point" provided by the applicant?
* Even now none of the Wikimanians shared anything with our community about Wikimania, we even didn't see them anywhere near wikis. Did they attend the Wikimania? How could we get their contributions to the Mania?

A slightly elaborated conversation is attached below (direction: bottom to top), I got no clarity even after that. Please help.

Thanks and Regards,
Praveen P
User:Praveenp (ml.wp, commons, translatewiki)




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
Date: 4 May 2015 at 11:17
Subject: Re: Wikimania Scholarship
To: praveenp <[hidden email]>


Hoi,
I know the WMF, it does not pull pranks like that to the best of my knowledge. I would not even be surprised that there is a ticket for the exact issue that you highlighted. (I am not looking for one, I have interest). My point is again, it is NOT about having great language skills, it is not about how often someone went. It is about how much of a difference you may make at the conference. Preparing a speech is the way I have done it and so can you.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 4 May 2015 at 07:16, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

My point is not about someone going to Wikimanias again and again, it is about Wikimania scholarships are granted to same persons again and again. According to your argument persons with better language skill would be granted scholarship, and there is nothing wrong with it. IMO that is against Wikimedia philosophy and ethics. A scholarship committee is for assessing applicants through various ways. If they solely depend the "selling" point given by the applicant, there shouldn't be this scholarship committee :-).

Consider this private post by me (I've added you), which is about a server error in application[1]: https://plus.google.com/+praveenp/posts/XtB1b9fmqcZ
This roughly translates as, "I tried to apply Wikimania Scholarship, even server told me - F*** you". It was 19 January, and I was pretty sure that I wouldn't get any scholarship. I saw couple of other similar posts sharing same feeling. We are not Nostradamus :-) but we just know. And also it did happen just as we expected.

I doubted that whether this should be shared or not (As you've clarified, this can easily be marked as inability to achieve scholarship). But on second thought, if this happened on ml.wikipedia, this would happened on every other projects.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

[1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T87182



On Sunday 03 May 2015 02:02 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
I have been to many Wikimanias myself. At every one of them I gave a presentation and I made it a point to have an idea of what it is that I achieved while being there. Your point is that the same people have been there, that is in and of itself not so relevant. It is what they achieved, it is how they networked. When people are known to be good at that, you will find that they often return to Wikimania.

This year I do not have the bandwidth to go to Wikimania so I did not apply, I did not prepare a presentation even though it is trivially easy for me to do so. 

When you want to go to Wikimania, make sure that you are clear why you want to go, what you intend to achieve and make that obvious. That is why you may be selected for a grant. There is no justification in all the good work that you do when you cannot or do not express how going to Wikimania makes a difference.

You have to sell this idea. There is no point in comparing yourself with others. They hope to achieve what they hope to achieve..
Thanks,
       GerardM

On 3 May 2015 at 09:57, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

It is hard for me to digest that scholarship committee is selecting same persons again and again for last 6 or 7 years. I just put myself as an example but I am sure there were many others have applied. :-)

Regards,
Praveen. P







On Sunday 03 May 2015 01:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
Good to hear from you.. There are no policies except for the ones that you know of as well. Obviously it makes a difference when you are able to sell the reason why you should go to Wikimania. If someone does a better job than you ... what can I say.

The most obvious and easy way to get in is to submit proposals for a talk, a workshop or anything else that shows that you want to achieve something..
Hope that helps :)
Have fun
     Gerard

On 3 May 2015 at 09:38, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I don't know whether you are the right person but I truly believe you may have some ideas to answer my doubt :-) If I remember correctly, I did apply Wikimania scholarship last couple of years but never got one. :-(  However every year User:Viswaprabha got scholarship even with his minimal wiki contributions. I know he is a great e-mail generator, but other than that I really wish to know whether there are any policies which restrict new people from getting scholarship.

As you may know I translate Mediawiki, edit Wikipedia articles, file bugs, translate and contribute to commons, actively participate discussions (mostly as devils advocate :-) ) etc.. None of it never counts.



Regards,

Praveen. P
User:Praveenp








_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

praveenp
Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.



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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

WereSpielChequers-2
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

praveenp
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Jane Darnell
In reply to this post by praveenp
Praveen,
Of course I follow what you are saying. I also agree that now is the time to have this conversation after Wikimania is ended and before the next Wikimania scholarships process begins. For the feedback from scholars, see this link:
Here are 15 reports by earlybirds on their Wikimania productivity:

I just reread what Gerard wrote here:
I agree with everything he wrote and I do think there is a huge bias in the scholarships committee towards people who can present well and who can "sell" themselves as productive Wikimanians in English. The sticky question of what makes a "productive Wikimanian" is quite an interesting one and it would be worthwhile to put some time into it. Anything you come up with on the nationality bias would benefit the entire non-US community, not just the Malayalam community.

If one compares the Dutch community to other European communities regarding number of speakers, number of articles in their language-pedia and so on, I think the number of Dutch "productive Wikimanians" has been very high from year to year. That said, it is also true that for many Dutch people under the age of 60, they can read and write English quite fluently. This makes it quite easy for them to present and sell their ideas in English.

Jane

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 6:59 AM, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.



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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Dariusz Jemielniak-3
In reply to this post by praveenp

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Stuart Prior
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l





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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

praveenp
Hi,

This is not about me and I am not figuring that why I didn't get the scholarship.

I just want to know why some users were able to achieve scholarship again and again while regular Wikimedians being excluded.
For last three or four months, most of the times I communicate with other Wikimedians, they have something similar to say about Wikimania. As anybody can see, even after selecting same persons again and again, there are no progress anywhere at wiki level or community level over these years. Then what did we achieve from repeatedly selecting same persons?

Regards,
Praveen
user:praveenp



On Friday 31 July 2015 04:01 PM, Stuart Prior wrote:
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Nkansah Rexford
I just want to know why some users were able to achieve scholarship again and again while regular Wikimedians being excluded.

And that is EXACTLY what Stuart explained. I understood, unless you didn't!
 
 



On Friday 31 July 2015 04:01 PM, Stuart Prior wrote:
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;darekj@alk.edu.pl&#39;);" target="_blank">darekj@...> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;me.praveen@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">me.praveen@...> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;me.praveen@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">me.praveen@...> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;b1mbo.wikipedia@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">b1mbo.wikipedia@...> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Nicholas Michael Bashour
I believe that what Praveen may be saying is that he thinks the value that a repeat scholarship recipient can gain from coming back to wikimania numerous times is outweighed by the value that someone who has never been to wikimania but has nevertheless been a very involved wikimedian can gain from attending. Therefore, given that there are limited resources, scholarships should always go to the people who can gain the most from receiving them, which Praveen may be arguing will always be someone who has never been to wikimania versus someone who has. He's saying that despite having many repeat scholarship recipients, there has not been any added value on wiki to justify that, and therefore new recipients should be actively prioritized over repeat ones. That's not to say whether or not that's actually the case or that this was the point he was trying to convey, but rather what I understood his argument to be. 

Best,

Nicholas

Sent from my iPhone

Am 31.07.2015 um 07:39 schrieb Nkansah Rexford <[hidden email]>:

I just want to know why some users were able to achieve scholarship again and again while regular Wikimedians being excluded.

And that is EXACTLY what Stuart explained. I understood, unless you didn't!
 
 



On Friday 31 July 2015 04:01 PM, Stuart Prior wrote:
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','darekj@alk.edu.pl');" target="_blank">darekj@...> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','me.praveen@gmail.com');" target="_blank">me.praveen@...> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','me.praveen@gmail.com');" target="_blank">me.praveen@...> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','b1mbo.wikipedia@gmail.com');" target="_blank">b1mbo.wikipedia@...> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Stuart Prior-2
In reply to this post by praveenp
Praveen, 

With respect, in the email chain with Gerard (which arguably was unfair to publish without his permission) you have singled out other Wikimedians that have received scholarships to compare their contributions with your own. This reads like a concern with your application rather than the system itself, though I may be wrong.

In answer to your question, I confirm there is no bias towards applicants who have received scholarships previously. In fact this year it was a factor that counted against them.
However, as I said before, some applicants may have demonstrated that attending Wikimania helped improve the conference itself via accepted submissions or volunteering, or that attending Wikimania helped them with a project.
And while I can't comment on any particular case, repeat scholarships are going to be the result of demonstrating the above well enough to warrant another scholarship, not anything else. 

My understanding (and my hope) is that next year the scholarships will be even more focused on participation and contribution to the event itself. So we can further the idea that a scholarship should be about what you can bring, what you will achieve, and not just be about what you have done, to make the conference have even more tangible outcomes.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:21 PM, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

This is not about me and I am not figuring that why I didn't get the scholarship.

I just want to know why some users were able to achieve scholarship again and again while regular Wikimedians being excluded.
For last three or four months, most of the times I communicate with other Wikimedians, they have something similar to say about Wikimania. As anybody can see, even after selecting same persons again and again, there are no progress anywhere at wiki level or community level over these years. Then what did we achieve from repeatedly selecting same persons?

Regards,
Praveen
user:praveenp




On Friday 31 July 2015 04:01 PM, Stuart Prior wrote:
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Stuart Prior-2
In reply to this post by Nicholas Michael Bashour
Nicholas, 

Yes it's a fair point. I can't speak for previous committees, but I know this year we did take it into account when reviewing applications.

But in any community there will be a few consistently excellent people that make a good case to justify support year on year. As the scholarship committee rotates members, and I made sure to avoid having members mark those they had more personal connections with, I hope we were as objective as we could be.

I could go on, but I'll leave it there. However I'd just like to reiterate that the scholarship process does not exclude "regular Wikimedians" in the slightest, quite the opposite.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma



On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Nicholas Bashour <[hidden email]> wrote:
I believe that what Praveen may be saying is that he thinks the value that a repeat scholarship recipient can gain from coming back to wikimania numerous times is outweighed by the value that someone who has never been to wikimania but has nevertheless been a very involved wikimedian can gain from attending. Therefore, given that there are limited resources, scholarships should always go to the people who can gain the most from receiving them, which Praveen may be arguing will always be someone who has never been to wikimania versus someone who has. He's saying that despite having many repeat scholarship recipients, there has not been any added value on wiki to justify that, and therefore new recipients should be actively prioritized over repeat ones. That's not to say whether or not that's actually the case or that this was the point he was trying to convey, but rather what I understood his argument to be. 

Best,

Nicholas

Sent from my iPhone

Am 31.07.2015 um 07:39 schrieb Nkansah Rexford <[hidden email]>:

I just want to know why some users were able to achieve scholarship again and again while regular Wikimedians being excluded.

And that is EXACTLY what Stuart explained. I understood, unless you didn't!
 
 



On Friday 31 July 2015 04:01 PM, Stuart Prior wrote:
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Pierre-Selim
Can we move on to something else ?
Concerns have been raised, answers have been given. If there are needs for more clarification can it happens in more private emails ?

2015-07-31 14:09 GMT+02:00 Stuart Prior <[hidden email]>:
Nicholas, 

Yes it's a fair point. I can't speak for previous committees, but I know this year we did take it into account when reviewing applications.

But in any community there will be a few consistently excellent people that make a good case to justify support year on year. As the scholarship committee rotates members, and I made sure to avoid having members mark those they had more personal connections with, I hope we were as objective as we could be.

I could go on, but I'll leave it there. However I'd just like to reiterate that the scholarship process does not exclude "regular Wikimedians" in the slightest, quite the opposite.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma



On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Nicholas Bashour <[hidden email]> wrote:
I believe that what Praveen may be saying is that he thinks the value that a repeat scholarship recipient can gain from coming back to wikimania numerous times is outweighed by the value that someone who has never been to wikimania but has nevertheless been a very involved wikimedian can gain from attending. Therefore, given that there are limited resources, scholarships should always go to the people who can gain the most from receiving them, which Praveen may be arguing will always be someone who has never been to wikimania versus someone who has. He's saying that despite having many repeat scholarship recipients, there has not been any added value on wiki to justify that, and therefore new recipients should be actively prioritized over repeat ones. That's not to say whether or not that's actually the case or that this was the point he was trying to convey, but rather what I understood his argument to be. 

Best,

Nicholas

Sent from my iPhone

Am 31.07.2015 um 07:39 schrieb Nkansah Rexford <[hidden email]>:

I just want to know why some users were able to achieve scholarship again and again while regular Wikimedians being excluded.

And that is EXACTLY what Stuart explained. I understood, unless you didn't!
 
 



On Friday 31 July 2015 04:01 PM, Stuart Prior wrote:
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Lane Rasberry
In reply to this post by Nicholas Michael Bashour
Hello,

Leave the fairness of the scholarship process aside. Regardless of its fairness, the process is generating ill-will because of lack of transparency and poor communication. The problem might be growing to something beyond what volunteers can manage and perhaps paid staff support from the communications department of the WMF would be a worthwhile investment to protect community reputation considering the seriousness of this, the problem's persistence, and the fact that a little more communication would go a long way to resolving the negativity.

Thanks Praveen for voicing concerns. They are worth addressing and what you are saying is what a significant and large demographic also has been believing for years. I first heard this in 2012. It is good that this year for the first time the list of scholarship recipients was published and shared openly. Regardless of whether the scholarship award process is fair and adequate, it is definitely true that the rumor is circulating among many countries, especially in the Global South, that some people are getting scholarships repeatedly.

Here are some of the complaints which I have repeatedly heard, and which are critical to address for the sake of community health:
  1. People who get scholarships somehow become better candidates for getting more scholarships, when ideally, new people from a region should attend Wikimania every time
  2. In the Global South especially, people who get scholarships actively or unconsciously suppress the development of their local Wikimedia community so that they retain a leadership role and remain the most eligible people to receive scholarships, grants, attention from Wikimedia community leaders, and other privileges.
  3. There is a tremendous amount of ignorance and lack of cultural insensitivity about the value of scholarships among WMF staff and Wikimedia community members from richer countries. At this year's Wikimania, we stayed in a city where ~75% of residents make USD 160 a month, (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/07/24/world/social-issues-world/mexico-poverty-rate-hit-46-2-last-year-2-million-join-ranks-poor/) and stayed in a hotel where the nightly charge per room was $320 or two month's income by local standards. The amount of money thrown around during Wikimania is shocking to many Wikipedians and this issue is never discussed, so far as I know.
  4. Just in general and beyond scholarships - there needs to be more discussion about how money is viewed differently in different places. This applies to grants, staffing, community engagement, and many other things. If complaints are not pouring in about this, it is only because people are not comfortable speaking up. Diversity creates a lot of concerns and we are a very diverse community.

yours,


On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Nicholas Bashour <[hidden email]> wrote:
I believe that what Praveen may be saying is that he thinks the value that a repeat scholarship recipient can gain from coming back to wikimania numerous times is outweighed by the value that someone who has never been to wikimania but has nevertheless been a very involved wikimedian can gain from attending. Therefore, given that there are limited resources, scholarships should always go to the people who can gain the most from receiving them, which Praveen may be arguing will always be someone who has never been to wikimania versus someone who has. He's saying that despite having many repeat scholarship recipients, there has not been any added value on wiki to justify that, and therefore new recipients should be actively prioritized over repeat ones. That's not to say whether or not that's actually the case or that this was the point he was trying to convey, but rather what I understood his argument to be. 

Best,

Nicholas

Sent from my iPhone

Am 31.07.2015 um 07:39 schrieb Nkansah Rexford <[hidden email]>:

I just want to know why some users were able to achieve scholarship again and again while regular Wikimedians being excluded.

And that is EXACTLY what Stuart explained. I understood, unless you didn't!
 
 



On Friday 31 July 2015 04:01 PM, Stuart Prior wrote:
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


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206.801.0814
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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Andy Mabbett-2
In reply to this post by praveenp
On 31 July 2015 at 09:02, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

> scholarships

When you asked the scholarship committee(s) for feedback on your
application(s), what were you told?

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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

WereSpielChequers-2
In reply to this post by Lane Rasberry
There may be a rumour circulating among some editors that the same people get sponsorship every year, but there is also a rumour that there is no point even applying if you had a grant three years ago. I considered it worth applying for Mexico as I had been turned down for both Hong Kong and Washington DC, but I know at least one editor who didn't apply this year because he had had sponsorship two or three years ago.

In these circumstances it would be helpful to have a little information, no need to have names, but if we could have the  number of people who have had sponsorship once, twice, three times or more in the last six years I suspect it would do much to reassure people that the myth that the same people get sponsorship every year is either true or untrue.



Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 13:16, Lane Rasberry <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

Leave the fairness of the scholarship process aside. Regardless of its fairness, the process is generating ill-will because of lack of transparency and poor communication. The problem might be growing to something beyond what volunteers can manage and perhaps paid staff support from the communications department of the WMF would be a worthwhile investment to protect community reputation considering the seriousness of this, the problem's persistence, and the fact that a little more communication would go a long way to resolving the negativity.

Thanks Praveen for voicing concerns. They are worth addressing and what you are saying is what a significant and large demographic also has been believing for years. I first heard this in 2012. It is good that this year for the first time the list of scholarship recipients was published and shared openly. Regardless of whether the scholarship award process is fair and adequate, it is definitely true that the rumor is circulating among many countries, especially in the Global South, that some people are getting scholarships repeatedly.

Here are some of the complaints which I have repeatedly heard, and which are critical to address for the sake of community health:
  1. People who get scholarships somehow become better candidates for getting more scholarships, when ideally, new people from a region should attend Wikimania every time
  2. In the Global South especially, people who get scholarships actively or unconsciously suppress the development of their local Wikimedia community so that they retain a leadership role and remain the most eligible people to receive scholarships, grants, attention from Wikimedia community leaders, and other privileges.
  3. There is a tremendous amount of ignorance and lack of cultural insensitivity about the value of scholarships among WMF staff and Wikimedia community members from richer countries. At this year's Wikimania, we stayed in a city where ~75% of residents make USD 160 a month, (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/07/24/world/social-issues-world/mexico-poverty-rate-hit-46-2-last-year-2-million-join-ranks-poor/) and stayed in a hotel where the nightly charge per room was $320 or two month's income by local standards. The amount of money thrown around during Wikimania is shocking to many Wikipedians and this issue is never discussed, so far as I know.
  4. Just in general and beyond scholarships - there needs to be more discussion about how money is viewed differently in different places. This applies to grants, staffing, community engagement, and many other things. If complaints are not pouring in about this, it is only because people are not comfortable speaking up. Diversity creates a lot of concerns and we are a very diverse community.

yours,


On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Nicholas Bashour <[hidden email]> wrote:
I believe that what Praveen may be saying is that he thinks the value that a repeat scholarship recipient can gain from coming back to wikimania numerous times is outweighed by the value that someone who has never been to wikimania but has nevertheless been a very involved wikimedian can gain from attending. Therefore, given that there are limited resources, scholarships should always go to the people who can gain the most from receiving them, which Praveen may be arguing will always be someone who has never been to wikimania versus someone who has. He's saying that despite having many repeat scholarship recipients, there has not been any added value on wiki to justify that, and therefore new recipients should be actively prioritized over repeat ones. That's not to say whether or not that's actually the case or that this was the point he was trying to convey, but rather what I understood his argument to be. 

Best,

Nicholas

Sent from my iPhone

Am 31.07.2015 um 07:39 schrieb Nkansah Rexford <[hidden email]>:

I just want to know why some users were able to achieve scholarship again and again while regular Wikimedians being excluded.

And that is EXACTLY what Stuart explained. I understood, unless you didn't!
 
 



On Friday 31 July 2015 04:01 PM, Stuart Prior wrote:
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l






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user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia
206.801.0814
[hidden email]
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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Jane Darnell
I agree. Some stats on the Meta pages per year would be helpful, as well as a list of grantees and their reports (for those who didn't make a report, maybe we have other data available on them, like submissions & presentations, or something like that)

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 2:51 PM, WereSpielChequers <[hidden email]> wrote:
There may be a rumour circulating among some editors that the same people get sponsorship every year, but there is also a rumour that there is no point even applying if you had a grant three years ago. I considered it worth applying for Mexico as I had been turned down for both Hong Kong and Washington DC, but I know at least one editor who didn't apply this year because he had had sponsorship two or three years ago.

In these circumstances it would be helpful to have a little information, no need to have names, but if we could have the  number of people who have had sponsorship once, twice, three times or more in the last six years I suspect it would do much to reassure people that the myth that the same people get sponsorship every year is either true or untrue.



Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 13:16, Lane Rasberry <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

Leave the fairness of the scholarship process aside. Regardless of its fairness, the process is generating ill-will because of lack of transparency and poor communication. The problem might be growing to something beyond what volunteers can manage and perhaps paid staff support from the communications department of the WMF would be a worthwhile investment to protect community reputation considering the seriousness of this, the problem's persistence, and the fact that a little more communication would go a long way to resolving the negativity.

Thanks Praveen for voicing concerns. They are worth addressing and what you are saying is what a significant and large demographic also has been believing for years. I first heard this in 2012. It is good that this year for the first time the list of scholarship recipients was published and shared openly. Regardless of whether the scholarship award process is fair and adequate, it is definitely true that the rumor is circulating among many countries, especially in the Global South, that some people are getting scholarships repeatedly.

Here are some of the complaints which I have repeatedly heard, and which are critical to address for the sake of community health:
  1. People who get scholarships somehow become better candidates for getting more scholarships, when ideally, new people from a region should attend Wikimania every time
  2. In the Global South especially, people who get scholarships actively or unconsciously suppress the development of their local Wikimedia community so that they retain a leadership role and remain the most eligible people to receive scholarships, grants, attention from Wikimedia community leaders, and other privileges.
  3. There is a tremendous amount of ignorance and lack of cultural insensitivity about the value of scholarships among WMF staff and Wikimedia community members from richer countries. At this year's Wikimania, we stayed in a city where ~75% of residents make USD 160 a month, (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/07/24/world/social-issues-world/mexico-poverty-rate-hit-46-2-last-year-2-million-join-ranks-poor/) and stayed in a hotel where the nightly charge per room was $320 or two month's income by local standards. The amount of money thrown around during Wikimania is shocking to many Wikipedians and this issue is never discussed, so far as I know.
  4. Just in general and beyond scholarships - there needs to be more discussion about how money is viewed differently in different places. This applies to grants, staffing, community engagement, and many other things. If complaints are not pouring in about this, it is only because people are not comfortable speaking up. Diversity creates a lot of concerns and we are a very diverse community.

yours,


On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Nicholas Bashour <[hidden email]> wrote:
I believe that what Praveen may be saying is that he thinks the value that a repeat scholarship recipient can gain from coming back to wikimania numerous times is outweighed by the value that someone who has never been to wikimania but has nevertheless been a very involved wikimedian can gain from attending. Therefore, given that there are limited resources, scholarships should always go to the people who can gain the most from receiving them, which Praveen may be arguing will always be someone who has never been to wikimania versus someone who has. He's saying that despite having many repeat scholarship recipients, there has not been any added value on wiki to justify that, and therefore new recipients should be actively prioritized over repeat ones. That's not to say whether or not that's actually the case or that this was the point he was trying to convey, but rather what I understood his argument to be. 

Best,

Nicholas

Sent from my iPhone

Am 31.07.2015 um 07:39 schrieb Nkansah Rexford <[hidden email]>:

I just want to know why some users were able to achieve scholarship again and again while regular Wikimedians being excluded.

And that is EXACTLY what Stuart explained. I understood, unless you didn't!
 
 



On Friday 31 July 2015 04:01 PM, Stuart Prior wrote:
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


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Re: Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

Lodewijk
In reply to this post by Lane Rasberry
Hi Lane,

(disclosure: I received a scholarship this year, and on multiple occasions in the past)
Thank you for voicing your concerns. While others can probably respond in more detail and accuracy, I would also like to respond to some of the assumptions you're making. 

First of all, you state that new people should attend Wikimania every time. I don't believe this is true at face value - I think a mix is important. In the end, there are several goals for the scholarship program, and one of them is to add value to the conference. Sometimes it could be that someone adds a lot of value to the conference, for example through helping the organisation of the conference, or by adding an important session to the program. It is true that people who have been to Wikimania before, are more likely to be able to explain why they add value. The solution here is not to give people who have never been to Wikimania an advantage, but to help them to explain why they add value. Support them, train them. 

Your assumption number 2 is a big accusation, and I would be interested to see some numbers/facts to support that (perhaps best to create a new thread for that). 

Assumption number 3 is a no-win discussion. On one side, there's an argument that we want scholarships, regular attendees and WMF staff to stay in the same location, so that they can mingle (this is already hard enough, as people tend to clog together with those they know, even this year). At the same time you're assuming that WMF actually had to pay the price that you're quoting. This is a big assumption. As far as I understood, huge reductions were accomplished, making this venue competitive with other, usually much cheaper, hotels while maintaining a high quality. But, I do recognize the image that is being created, and I agree that we could very well do with a Wikimania that is slightly less 'professional' and has a slightly lower quality. It may be cheaper, but also will have consequences on the other end. 

Best,
Lodewijk

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Lane Rasberry <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Leave the fairness of the scholarship process aside. Regardless of its fairness, the process is generating ill-will because of lack of transparency and poor communication. The problem might be growing to something beyond what volunteers can manage and perhaps paid staff support from the communications department of the WMF would be a worthwhile investment to protect community reputation considering the seriousness of this, the problem's persistence, and the fact that a little more communication would go a long way to resolving the negativity.

Thanks Praveen for voicing concerns. They are worth addressing and what you are saying is what a significant and large demographic also has been believing for years. I first heard this in 2012. It is good that this year for the first time the list of scholarship recipients was published and shared openly. Regardless of whether the scholarship award process is fair and adequate, it is definitely true that the rumor is circulating among many countries, especially in the Global South, that some people are getting scholarships repeatedly.

Here are some of the complaints which I have repeatedly heard, and which are critical to address for the sake of community health:
  1. People who get scholarships somehow become better candidates for getting more scholarships, when ideally, new people from a region should attend Wikimania every time
  2. In the Global South especially, people who get scholarships actively or unconsciously suppress the development of their local Wikimedia community so that they retain a leadership role and remain the most eligible people to receive scholarships, grants, attention from Wikimedia community leaders, and other privileges.
  3. There is a tremendous amount of ignorance and lack of cultural insensitivity about the value of scholarships among WMF staff and Wikimedia community members from richer countries. At this year's Wikimania, we stayed in a city where ~75% of residents make USD 160 a month, (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/07/24/world/social-issues-world/mexico-poverty-rate-hit-46-2-last-year-2-million-join-ranks-poor/) and stayed in a hotel where the nightly charge per room was $320 or two month's income by local standards. The amount of money thrown around during Wikimania is shocking to many Wikipedians and this issue is never discussed, so far as I know.
  4. Just in general and beyond scholarships - there needs to be more discussion about how money is viewed differently in different places. This applies to grants, staffing, community engagement, and many other things. If complaints are not pouring in about this, it is only because people are not comfortable speaking up. Diversity creates a lot of concerns and we are a very diverse community.

yours,


On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Nicholas Bashour <[hidden email]> wrote:
I believe that what Praveen may be saying is that he thinks the value that a repeat scholarship recipient can gain from coming back to wikimania numerous times is outweighed by the value that someone who has never been to wikimania but has nevertheless been a very involved wikimedian can gain from attending. Therefore, given that there are limited resources, scholarships should always go to the people who can gain the most from receiving them, which Praveen may be arguing will always be someone who has never been to wikimania versus someone who has. He's saying that despite having many repeat scholarship recipients, there has not been any added value on wiki to justify that, and therefore new recipients should be actively prioritized over repeat ones. That's not to say whether or not that's actually the case or that this was the point he was trying to convey, but rather what I understood his argument to be. 

Best,

Nicholas

Sent from my iPhone

Am 31.07.2015 um 07:39 schrieb Nkansah Rexford <[hidden email]>:

I just want to know why some users were able to achieve scholarship again and again while regular Wikimedians being excluded.

And that is EXACTLY what Stuart explained. I understood, unless you didn't!
 
 



On Friday 31 July 2015 04:01 PM, Stuart Prior wrote:
Praveen,

I was chair of the Scholarship Committee for this year.

It's unfortunate that you didn't get a scholarship, however there were many high quality applications and sometimes the difference between success and failure is very small, and I feel genuinely bad for any Wikimedian with a good application that didn't make it, but it's very competitive.

We do take into account previous scholarship awards, and focus on making sure new people get a chance. But consistently good applications and excellent work can warrant repeat scholarship awards despite this.

In some cases where people have been granted Scholarships previously but have been unable to attend the conference due to visa issues we have considered that when receiving their applications for the current year.

I won't comment on any individual's scholarship, but "regular Wikimedians" certainly make up the bulk of the scholars. Edit count is not the only factor, but it still is a significant (and clearly verifiable) factor when looking at someone's application.
 
However, we looked for organisers too. Some of our community are better facilitators and community builders than they are editors, and running events, training and building partnerships are things that were marked favourably.

Moreover, two identical applicants can make wildly differing applications. We look for those that comprehensively demonstrate their contributions and qualify their statements.

Please apply again next year. You have just as much opportunity as anyone else.

Hope this helps.

Best

Stuart Prior
User:Battleofalma

On 31 July 2015 at 09:16, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Praveen,

I've been a steward, as well as the chair of the FDC for three years, so you may assume I've been somewhat active in Wikimedia movement. I did not receive a global scholarship neither (although I did eventually go, as I got elected to the Board of Trustees).

I think it is clearly an assumption of bad faith to say that there is a bias in scholarship committee. The criteria are explicit, and obviously with limited resources a large number of excellent candidates, even with accepted presentations, will not make it.

I would suggest you focus on Wikimedia activity, prepare a great presentation for the next year as well as a compelling application, and try again.

Best,

DJ "pundit"

31 lip 2015 10:07 "praveenp" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
Hi,

Please don't derail the actual topic of the thread. I really didnt assume such an interpretation from quoting his words. Whenever I asked about the issue to anybody, I generally got such a reply, which I want to avoid here.

If it is need to start a new thread, I will do that. :-)

But please tell me why some people regularly get scholarships atleast since 2008, active (in Wikimedia projects / outreach programms) users never get a chance to share their experience and problems at Wikimania.

Regards,
Praveen. P


On Friday 31 July 2015 12:40 PM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
Praveen,

Whether there was anything personal or confidential in Gerard's private emails to you is for him to say not for you to decide.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 31 Jul 2015, at 05:59, praveenp <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Osmar Valdebenito,
No offense was intended :-(. For prominent communities that may be true, but could you check list of users who got scholarship from Malayalam community.


Amir Ladsgroup,

1) As you can see there is nothing confidential or personal in Gerards reply. He just gave a summary of "known" practices.
2) Users are not asking for trophies. They also want to participate Wikimania and share and get the experience.
3) Wikimedia projects are community processes. I simply don't understand how granting scholarship to same persons again and again for five or six years help that process. I also dont understand that communication and sharing of multiple viewpoints, ideas and practices is possible in the above scenario.
4) Yes; If clicking tick marks in translatewiki on some 500 string in 5 minutes before applying for scholarship (as reviewing the translation) is a prominent contribution.

In the beginning every body treated equal, we have multiple participants (with understandable reasons) for Wikimania. It started to shrink later and now people plainly believe granting scholarship is an act of favoritism. I also want to prove I am wrong.

Regards,
Praveen. P
User:Praveenp

PS: Mail striped because mailman held my previous reply claiming " Message body is too big:"

On Friday 31 July 2015 05:03 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
There are several issues I want to comment:
1-First of all. Do you have permission from Gerard to publish your conversation? Maybe there is something confidential in it, Did you care to check?
2- Scholarship is not award or trophy, bear that in mind.
3- People are expected to come here and learn, communicate, etc. that's why a same person gets scholarship, 
4- No one's wife got scholarship because of being wife of someone. They probably are prominent contributors too.
5- Check my first question and answer that. (Emphasizing)

Best

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:05 AM Osmar Valdebenito <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, but when I read "No regular Wikimedian get any scholarship", I stopped reading.
It is not only a lie, but also very unfair to all the extremely great Wikimedians that attended and made great contributions in Wikimania, and also the volunteers that have helped now and in the past reviewing and evaluated thousand of applications in the Scholarship Committee.


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