[Fwd: [Wikipedia-l] Commons moving helper]

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[Fwd: [Wikipedia-l] Commons moving helper]

Magnus Manske
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Hi,

I recently noticed what a pain it can be to move image to commons,
especially with the image description. To help this issue, I now offer
this service:

http://magnusmanske.de/wikipedia/commonshelper.php

where you can enter the wikipedia language code and image name, and it
will generate a commons description consisting of link to original image
page, original contents, and wikified upload history.

It can also be called with the language/image as part of the URL:

http://magnusmanske.de/wikipedia/commonshelper.php?lang=3Dde&doit=3D1&ima=
ge=3DStruktur_Luftwaffenamt.PNG

For German language, it will also translate several copyright template
names (e.g., "{{Bild-GFDL}}") into the the English (commons) version.
This can be expanded for other languages as well.

Magnus




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Meta templates in other languages

Fredrik Josefsson
We have been requested not to use meta templates. But
they are used on the Commons a lot for other language.
In the template Copyvio there's even two meta
templates (
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Copyvio ) .


1. Question: Is this really detremental for the server
performance? To me it seems possible that the extra
server power it takes to invoke templates on Wikipedia
projects is an extra strain on server resources (as it
were an additional meta template). What do the
developers say?

Furthermore, I find it useless to have links to
translation of templates for all minor languages such
as Alemannisch, Asturianu, Brezhoneg, etc. To me, it
is sufficient to have translation in French, Spanish,
Italian, Chinese, etc (the larger languages). Isn't
this Alemannisch , etc, just some kind of vanity
thing? I mean, they would have to know at least one
other language anyways.

/ Fred-C.
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Re: [Fwd: [Wikipedia-l] Commons moving helper]

Brianna Laugher
In reply to this post by Magnus Manske
Wow, that's super awesome. Nice work!!

Some initial thoughts:
* It would be nice if you could enter "Image:Foo.jpg" as well as
"Foo.jpg", or at least have a warning that the latter is expected,
since the former generates scary looking errors. :)
* It would be really nice if it failed (with explanation) if an image
with a fairuse license was entered. eg, fairuse, logo, screenshot,
promophoto, et al. I don't know if Duesentrieb's meta tags have been
implemented on en yet but if/when they are, they could be useful here.
* It would be super nice if it prompted/warned the user to only upload
images where the license is verifiable and/or a source is given. This
would be more for the benefit of people transferring images after the
fact rather than the original uploaders, since they obviously ignore
such warnings anyway.
* It would be awesomely nice if it also put a message at the end
asking the user to give the image a category. This is v important for
the Commons but not so much for the Wikipedias. In this spirit, it
could also remind the user to tag the original image as
{{NowCommons|new name}} or {{NowCommonsThis}}.

But anyway... very awesome! We can add this to [[commons:Commons:Tools]].

Now we just need the universal login to make life complete :)

cheers,
Brianna (User:pfctdayelise)

> Hi,
>
> I recently noticed what a pain it can be to move image to commons,
> especially with the image description. To help this issue, I now offer
> this service:
>
> http://magnusmanske.de/wikipedia/commonshelper.php


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Re: Commons moving helper

Daniel Kinzler
Thanks Magnus!

I have been wanting to write something like that myself for quite some
time now. Too much else to do, I guess.

About categorizing the image: this is very important, and one of the
things often ignored by commons newbies. Its also a task that may take
some time to do it right.

I have written CommonSense
<http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CommonSense.php> for
automatically suggesting categories, based on where an image is used
and/or keywords from the description text. It has a mode with easy to
parse output for bots... maybe you can make your thing use it?

Regards
Daniel

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Re: Meta templates in other languages

Brianna Laugher
In reply to this post by Fredrik Josefsson
> We have been requested not to use meta templates. But
> they are used on the Commons a lot for other language.
> In the template Copyvio there's even two meta
> templates (
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Copyvio ) .

Who were we requested by? Or do you mean, in a general sense, as in
[[w:Wikipedia:Avoid using meta-templates]]?

> 1. Question: Is this really detremental for the server
> performance? To me it seems possible that the extra
> server power it takes to invoke templates on Wikipedia
> projects is an extra strain on server resources (as it
> were an additional meta template). What do the
> developers say?

Brion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Avoid_using_meta-templates/Archive_3#Brion.27s_comment

I don't think the meta templates we're using are the kind people on
en.wp get worried about.  They're talking about complex, nasty beasts
like [[template:qif]] rather than just nested templates like we use...
I think. Plus Duesentrieb's meta-templates are empty, AFAIK, so I
doubt they can do much harm. And lastly... Commons doesn't have
anywhere near the traffic of en.wp.

> Furthermore, I find it useless to have links to
> translation of templates for all minor languages such
> as Alemannisch, Asturianu, Brezhoneg, etc. To me, it
> is sufficient to have translation in French, Spanish,
> Italian, Chinese, etc (the larger languages). Isn't
> this Alemannisch , etc, just some kind of vanity
> thing? I mean, they would have to know at least one
> other language anyways.

What is the alternative? Only allow people to translate into "allowed"
languages? I don't think so. People will only translate what they
want. Banning people from translating into Alemannisch will not make
them translate into a more popular language. So who does the extra (if
superfluous) translation hurt? No one. Who does it help? Well,
possibly someone. It might also, as I think Arnomane once said, shame
the speakers of more popular languages into keeping their translations
up to date. :)

Brianna (User:pfctdayelise)


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Re: [Fwd: [Wikipedia-l] Commons moving helper]

David Benbennick
In reply to this post by Magnus Manske
On 4/10/06, Magnus Manske <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I recently noticed what a pain it can be to move image to commons,
> especially with the image description. To help this issue, I now offer
> this service:
>
> http://magnusmanske.de/wikipedia/commonshelper.php

Neat!  Here's a couple bugs.

If the image upload summary has interwiki links, the links break.  For
example, (taking an image from EN):

here's a summary with [[link]] and [[de:interwiki link]]. How about
[[commons:link]]?

turns into

here's a summary with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link Link] (link)
and [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/interwiki_link" class='extiw'
title="de:interwiki_link] (de:interwiki link) . How about
[http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/link" class='extiw'
title="commons:link] (commons:link) ?

Also, it would be nice of the helper deduced wiki-syntax for links in
the upload summaries, instead of making everything be external links.
For example, [[link]] should turn into [[:en:link]], not
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link Link].


Another minor bug, interwiki links in image descriptions aren't quite
right.  In terms of link syntax, the Commons thinks of itself as an
English Wikipedia (in otherwords, [[q:Foo]] links to English
Wikiquote, while [[:de:Foo]] links to German Wikipedia).  The script
needs to know this quirky fact.  Again from EN, the image description

[[Foo]] and [[:de:Bar]].  [[:Image:Bob]].

turns into

[[:en:Foo]] and [[:en::de:Bar]]. [[:en::Image:Bob]].

when it should be

[[:en:Foo]] and [[:de:Bar]]. [[:en:Image:Bob]].

(Notice the double :: in two places, too.)
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Re: Meta templates in other languages

Brion Vibber
In reply to this post by Fredrik Josefsson
Fredrik Josefsson wrote:
> We have been requested not to use meta templates. But
> they are used on the Commons a lot for other language.
> In the template Copyvio there's even two meta
> templates (
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Copyvio ) .

There is absolutely nothing wrong with simple nested templates. The only problem
they ever had was updating properly when the nested templates are edited, and
that problem has been resolved.

> 1. Question: Is this really detremental for the server
> performance?

No.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


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Re: Meta templates in other languages

Fredrik Josefsson
Ok thanks.

Brion Vibber skrev:
Fredrik Josefsson wrote:
> We have been requested not to use meta templates. But
> they are used on the Commons a lot for other language.
> In the template Copyvio there's even two meta
> templates (
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Copyvio ) .

There is absolutely nothing wrong with simple nested templates. The only problem
they ever had was updating properly when the nested templates are edited, and
that problem has been resolved.

> 1. Question: Is this really detremental for the server
> performance?

No.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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Re: [Fwd: [Wikipedia-l] Commons moving helper]

Magnus Manske
In reply to this post by Brianna Laugher
Brianna Laugher schrieb:

> Wow, that's super awesome. Nice work!!
>
> Some initial thoughts:
> * It would be nice if you could enter "Image:Foo.jpg" as well as
> "Foo.jpg", or at least have a warning that the latter is expected,
> since the former generates scary looking errors. :)
> * It would be really nice if it failed (with explanation) if an image
> with a fairuse license was entered. eg, fairuse, logo, screenshot,
> promophoto, et al. I don't know if Duesentrieb's meta tags have been
> implemented on en yet but if/when they are, they could be useful here.
> * It would be super nice if it prompted/warned the user to only upload
> images where the license is verifiable and/or a source is given. This
> would be more for the benefit of people transferring images after the
> fact rather than the original uploaders, since they obviously ignore
> such warnings anyway.
> * It would be awesomely nice if it also put a message at the end
> asking the user to give the image a category. This is v important for
> the Commons but not so much for the Wikipedias. In this spirit, it
> could also remind the user to tag the original image as
> {{NowCommons|new name}} or {{NowCommonsThis}}.
>  
All done. Someone please check if this version works correctly with UTF8.
> But anyway... very awesome! We can add this to [[commons:Commons:Tools]].
>  
Thanks!
> Now we just need the universal login to make life complete :)
>  
Brion's working on it...

Magnus



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Re: Commons moving helper

Magnus Manske
In reply to this post by Daniel Kinzler
Daniel Kinzler schrieb:

> Thanks Magnus!
>
> I have been wanting to write something like that myself for quite some
> time now. Too much else to do, I guess.
>
> About categorizing the image: this is very important, and one of the
> things often ignored by commons newbies. Its also a task that may take
> some time to do it right.
>
> I have written CommonSense
> <http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CommonSense.php> for
> automatically suggesting categories, based on where an image is used
> and/or keywords from the description text. It has a mode with easy to
> parse output for bots... maybe you can make your thing use it?
>  
Thanks, already implemented! I didn't check the option by default, as
CommonSense sometimes takes quite a while to return (no pun intended ;-)

Magnus


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Re: [Fwd: [Wikipedia-l] Commons moving helper]

Brianna Laugher
In reply to this post by Magnus Manske
Very cool. I didn't try testing UTF8 but everything else worked,
although ticking the box for "suggest categories" didn't do
anything... so I don't think that works.

Brianna

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Re: [Fwd: [Wikipedia-l] Commons moving helper]

Brianna Laugher
Also I don't know if you want to cover the case where someone tries to
move an image that is already at the Commons. It kinda half-succeeds
and half-fails. Maybe you give people more credit than that ;)

Brianna


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Re: [Fwd: [Wikipedia-l] Commons moving helper]

Brianna Laugher
In reply to this post by Brianna Laugher
Oops, I should've finished my testing before I fired off these emails!
For a different image, it worked and suggested categories. Maybe the
first image just didn't have any - in that case, a note to that effect
could be handy, otherwise you don't know if anything has happened or
not.

Also that checkbox would be handy on the front page, rather than
having to do it twice.

I'll stop testing now in case I find something else :)

On 13/04/06, Brianna Laugher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Very cool. I didn't try testing UTF8 but everything else worked,
> although ticking the box for "suggest categories" didn't do
> anything... so I don't think that works.

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Re: [Fwd: [Wikipedia-l] Commons moving helper]

Magnus Manske
In reply to this post by David Benbennick
Interwiki links. Uhg!

Seems I'll have to pipe the sucker through my XML parser after all to
make sense of it ;-)

I'll see what I can do...

Magnus


David Benbennick wrote:

> On 4/10/06, Magnus Manske <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> I recently noticed what a pain it can be to move image to commons,
>> especially with the image description. To help this issue, I now offer
>> this service:
>>
>> http://magnusmanske.de/wikipedia/commonshelper.php
>>    
>
> Neat!  Here's a couple bugs.
>
> If the image upload summary has interwiki links, the links break.  For
> example, (taking an image from EN):
>
> here's a summary with [[link]] and [[de:interwiki link]]. How about
> [[commons:link]]?
>
> turns into
>
> here's a summary with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link Link] (link)
> and [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/interwiki_link" class='extiw'
> title="de:interwiki_link] (de:interwiki link) . How about
> [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/link" class='extiw'
> title="commons:link] (commons:link) ?
>
> Also, it would be nice of the helper deduced wiki-syntax for links in
> the upload summaries, instead of making everything be external links.
> For example, [[link]] should turn into [[:en:link]], not
> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link Link].
>
>
> Another minor bug, interwiki links in image descriptions aren't quite
> right.  In terms of link syntax, the Commons thinks of itself as an
> English Wikipedia (in otherwords, [[q:Foo]] links to English
> Wikiquote, while [[:de:Foo]] links to German Wikipedia).  The script
> needs to know this quirky fact.  Again from EN, the image description
>
> [[Foo]] and [[:de:Bar]].  [[:Image:Bob]].
>
> turns into
>
> [[:en:Foo]] and [[:en::de:Bar]]. [[:en::Image:Bob]].
>
> when it should be
>
> [[:en:Foo]] and [[:de:Bar]]. [[:en:Image:Bob]].
>
> (Notice the double :: in two places, too.)
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>  

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