GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

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GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

David Gerard-2
Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out
what we're doing wrong?


- d.

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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Greg Grossmeier-2
<quote name="David Gerard" date="2013-08-05" time="18:03:53 +0100">
> Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out
> what we're doing wrong?

I got a report that my message to wikitech-ambassadors@ was sent to spam
last week, as well.

Just throwing out a datum.

Greg

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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Yuvi Panda
All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule
that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me).

/end-data-point


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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit :
> All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule
> that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me).
>
> /end-data-point
>
>
Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;)

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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada
What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from
wiki mailing lists too.

Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and
Google filter has learn it?


2013/8/5 Mathieu Stumpf <[hidden email]>

> Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit :
> > All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule
> > that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me).
> >
> > /end-data-point
> >
> >
> Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;)
>
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Brian Wolff
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556 sounds related...

--bawolff

On 8/5/13, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from
> wiki mailing lists too.
>
> Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and
> Google filter has learn it?
>
>
> 2013/8/5 Mathieu Stumpf <[hidden email]>
>
>> Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit :
>> > All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule
>> > that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me).
>> >
>> > /end-data-point
>> >
>> >
>> Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


--
--
- Brian
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Bartosz Dziewoński
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 19:03:53 +0200, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out
> what we're doing wrong?

I actually just noticed this today, unspammed the messages and was going to mail here about it. Affects at least wikitech-l and mediawiki-l for me.


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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

David Gerard-2
On 5 August 2013 20:06, Bartosz Dziewoński <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 19:03:53 +0200, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out
>> what we're doing wrong?

> I actually just noticed this today, unspammed the messages and was going to
> mail here about it. Affects at least wikitech-l and mediawiki-l for me.


Been affecting a pile of lists for me, so it's something in what we
send in the headers.


- d.

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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

OQ
In reply to this post by Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from
> wiki mailing lists too.
>
> Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and
> Google filter has learn it?
>
>
Since it includes a List-Unsubscribe header, when reporting it as spam,
Google prompts the user with something along the lines of "Do you wish to
unsubscribe rather than report as spam?"
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Risker
On 5 August 2013 16:23, OQ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <
> [hidden email]
> > wrote:
>
> > What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from
> > wiki mailing lists too.
> >
> > Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam
> and
> > Google filter has learn it?
> >
> >
> Since it includes a List-Unsubscribe header, when reporting it as spam,
> Google prompts the user with something along the lines of "Do you wish to
> unsubscribe rather than report as spam?"
>

Really?  I've not once had that message.  As best I can tell, it is
affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
exception of the checkuser mailing list.  I do not know what is different
about that one.

Risker/Anne
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

David Gerard-2
On 5 August 2013 21:57, Risker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Really?  I've not once had that message.  As best I can tell, it is
> affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
> exception of the checkuser mailing list.  I do not know what is different
> about that one.


Does anyone have a contact at GMail?

(I mean, there's making a blog post, but that'd be a pretty extreme
last resort ...)


- d.

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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

OQ
In reply to this post by Risker
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Risker <[hidden email]> wrote:

Really?  I've not once had that message.  As best I can tell, it is
> affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
> exception of the checkuser mailing list.  I do not know what is different
> about that one.
>

Hurm I stand corrected, I know it does this for some lists I've been
subscribed to, but not the WM lists, so *shrug*.[1]
The troubleshooter[2] does encourage SPF/DKIM, and if that fails to contact
them[3].

1 - http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/unsubscribing-made-easy.html
2 - https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2696779?rd=1
3 - https://support.google.com/mail/contact/bulk_send
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

C. Scott Ananian
In reply to this post by Brian Wolff
I recommend posters re-read bawolff's message:

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556 sounds related...
>
> --bawolff


lists.wikipedia.org is missing an SPF record in DNS.  That is most likely
what is causing the email to be flagged.
 --scott

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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

David Gerard-2
On 5 August 2013 22:25, C. Scott Ananian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> lists.wikipedia.org is missing an SPF record in DNS.  That is most likely
> what is causing the email to be flagged.


Is that easy or hard to fix?

(I can't work out how to get a list of email addresses for wikien-l,
to work out how many subscribers are on gmail. I know at one stage
*all* of the moderators were ... it's a popular service for good
reason.)


- d.

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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Ken Snider
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org email).

Thanks.

--Ken.

On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5 August 2013 21:57, Risker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Really?  I've not once had that message.  As best I can tell, it is
>> affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
>> exception of the checkuser mailing list.  I do not know what is different
>> about that one.
>
>
> Does anyone have a contact at GMail?
>
> (I mean, there's making a blog post, but that'd be a pretty extreme
> last resort ...)
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

C. Scott Ananian
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ken Snider <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the
> ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org
> email).
>

If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct (
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to
do with GMail.  (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google
servers, AFAIK.)
 --scott

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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Tim Landscheidt
"C. Scott Ananian" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the
>> ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org
>> email).

> If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct (
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to
> do with GMail.  (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google
> servers, AFAIK.)

Just want to point that I am neither Brian Wolff nor would I
call the bug report a diagnosis :-) -- it's just a guess.

Greg asked
(cf. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556#c1):

| Can someone who has some of the emails that were marked as spam please pastebin
| the headers? We're working with a contact at Google now to diagnose. It is
| probably the SPF issue, but they haven't suggested it yet (they probably
| haven't gotten that far).

Tim


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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by C. Scott Ananian
C. Scott Ananian wrote:
>On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ken Snider <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the
>> ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for
>>org email).
>
>If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct (
>https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to
>do with GMail.  (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google
>servers, AFAIK.)

Tim L.'s diagnosis, rather, but indeed. As I understand it, this would be
a Wikimedia operations issue (setting an SPF record in Wikimedia's DNS
records for lists.wikimedia.org) and would fall to Ken and his team.

MZMcBride



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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Greg Grossmeier-2
Just looping the list in on the status:

We're talking with a support person from Google, they've made a couple
of suggestions that I've forwarded to Ops (specifically SPF and DKIM).

They also asked for the headers of some of the messages, which you saw I
related to the bug. I sent them the one Alex shared.

I'll let the list know when I have a more solid answer (ie: "we're all
fixed" or "email hates us").

Greg

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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Bináris
In reply to this post by Risker
2013/8/5 Risker <[hidden email]>

>
> Really?  I've not once had that message.  As best I can tell, it is
> affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
> exception of the checkuser mailing list.


CU-list is also deeply involved. :-(
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