Geohack

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Geohack

Magnus Manske-2
(sending this message again, as I somehow was unsubscribed from
wikitech-l for a while. Damn computers;-)

Hi all,

a long time ago, en:User:Egil wrote a great MediaWiki extension to
handle geographic coordinates, like ISBNs are handled by
Special:Booksources, and ran it off his server. When said server broke
down, and Egil was unreachable, I wrote a workaround [1] to run it as
a standalone script, and put it on the toolsever as a temporary
measure.

As it is tradition for temporary fixes, this one seems to have become
permanent ;-) with ~640000 hits in October, making up >8% of
toolserver traffic.

I wonder if this would be the time to add Egils extension to the
standard Wikipedia extension set. This would not only look more
seamless, and offer localized pages, but also take advantage of the
usual caching mechanisms. AFAIK, all that needs to be done is adding
the extension, copying the wikisource to a local page, and fix the geo
templates. This could be done gradually; unless the templates are
adapted, the default behaviour (using toolserver) won't change, even
if the extension is activated.

Magnus


[1] http://tools.wikimedia.de/~magnus/geo/geohack.php
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Re: Geohack

Jens Frank
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 09:27:20AM +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:
>
> As it is tradition for temporary fixes, this one seems to have become
> permanent ;-) with ~640000 hits in October, making up >8% of
> toolserver traffic.
>
Could you please change the logo of that page? I guess it's not really
necessary to use a 1MB big image on a page frequented that often.

Regards,

        jens
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Re: Geohack

Magnus Manske-2
On 11/13/06, Jens Frank <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 09:27:20AM +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:
> >
> > As it is tradition for temporary fixes, this one seems to have become
> > permanent ;-) with ~640000 hits in October, making up >8% of
> > toolserver traffic.
> >
> Could you please change the logo of that page? I guess it's not really
> necessary to use a 1MB big image on a page frequented that often.

 Done.

About my original question...?

Magnus
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Re: Geohack

Jens Frank
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 09:52:09PM +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:

> On 11/13/06, Jens Frank <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 09:27:20AM +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:
> > >
> > > As it is tradition for temporary fixes, this one seems to have become
> > > permanent ;-) with ~640000 hits in October, making up >8% of
> > > toolserver traffic.
> > >
> > Could you please change the logo of that page? I guess it's not really
> > necessary to use a 1MB big image on a page frequented that often.
>
>  Done.
>
> About my original question...?

geohack is not an extension, but a standalone tool. It does not
integrate at all into MediaWiki, but does everything on its own. Thus,
it ignores all user settings for example. No matter which skin a user
uses, he'll get pseudo-monobook from geohack.

geohack is full of hardcodes, and has no support for
internationalization.

I don't think it can be easily activated right now.

Regards,

        jens
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Re: Geohack

Arne 'Timwi' Heizmann
Jens Frank wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 09:52:09PM +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:
>
>>On 11/13/06, Jens Frank <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 09:27:20AM +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:
>>>
>>>>As it is tradition for temporary fixes, this one seems to have become
>>>>permanent ;-) with ~640000 hits in October, making up >8% of
>>>>toolserver traffic.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Could you please change the logo of that page? I guess it's not really
>>>necessary to use a 1MB big image on a page frequented that often.
>>
>> Done.
>>
>>About my original question...?
>
> geohack is not an extension, but a standalone tool.

Magnus explicitly explained that the standalone tool was his, and that
it was a "temporary workaround" that was introduced because the
extension somehow couldn't be used on the live site. I'm sure Magnus
knows the difference between an extension and a standalone thing.

> geohack is full of hardcodes, and has no support for
> internationalization.

Magnus claimed that it does, so again I'm inclined to assume that you
are referring to Magnus' workaround, and not the actual extension he's
proposing.

Timwi

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Re: Geohack

Magnus Manske-2
On 11/14/06, Timwi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jens Frank wrote:
> > geohack is not an extension, but a standalone tool.
>
> Magnus explicitly explained that the standalone tool was his, and that
> it was a "temporary workaround" that was introduced because the
> extension somehow couldn't be used on the live site. I'm sure Magnus
> knows the difference between an extension and a standalone thing.
>
> > geohack is full of hardcodes, and has no support for
> > internationalization.
>
> Magnus claimed that it does, so again I'm inclined to assume that you
> are referring to Magnus' workaround, and not the actual extension he's
> proposing.

The extension (yes, I'm talking about that, not my lousy wrapper;-)
basically takes all its text from a wiki page, which would then be in
the respective wikipedia (and not, like now, a subpage of my en user
page).

I have a few requests for updates on the extension itself, which I'm
not entirely comfortable with doing myself, and I don't really have
time to invest until the end of the month. Making it an "used"
extension might attract some more developers.

Egils extension appears to be in SVN "trunk/extensions/gis", if you're curious.

Magnus
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Re: Geohack

Jens Frank
On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 07:34:33PM +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:

> On 11/14/06, Timwi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Jens Frank wrote:
> > > geohack is not an extension, but a standalone tool.
> >
> > Magnus explicitly explained that the standalone tool was his, and that
> > it was a "temporary workaround" that was introduced because the
> > extension somehow couldn't be used on the live site. I'm sure Magnus
> > knows the difference between an extension and a standalone thing.
> >
> Egils extension appears to be in SVN "trunk/extensions/gis", if you're curious.

Doh! I even worked on that one myself, a year ago. I'll have a look. I
think I remember that it was not really production ready, but I don't
remember why.

jens
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Re: Geohack

Jens Frank
On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 08:02:03PM +0100, Jens Frank wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 07:34:33PM +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:
> > On 11/14/06, Timwi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Jens Frank wrote:
> > > > geohack is not an extension, but a standalone tool.
> > >
> > > Magnus explicitly explained that the standalone tool was his, and that
> > > it was a "temporary workaround" that was introduced because the
> > > extension somehow couldn't be used on the live site. I'm sure Magnus
> > > knows the difference between an extension and a standalone thing.
> > >
> > Egils extension appears to be in SVN "trunk/extensions/gis", if you're curious.
>
> Doh! I even worked on that one myself, a year ago. I'll have a look. I
> think I remember that it was not really production ready, but I don't
> remember why.
>

I had a look at it again. There's some things that need to be done
before getting this into production:

- localization
  Lots of hardcodes, e.g. 'N', 'E', 'W', 'S', 'to', 'type:city', ...

- update to MW1.9alpha.
  gis is an extension for MW1.5, and does not work with MW1.9 any more

- I'd like to have some changes on the syntax of the <geo> tag.
  There were many problems with people cut-and-pasting the geo markup
  template from one article to another, not understanding its syntax.
  Especially the population was often wrong.
  type:city(500000) could become type:city population:500000

- The map page should become a real special page, instead of a
  standalone page.

- I'm not sure how good the search for nearby places will scale. MySQL
  has no proper spatial index. The pseudo-index I added will work for
  smaller sites, but Wikipedia might kill this.

jens
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Re: Geohack

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
Jens Frank wrote:
<snip>
> - I'm not sure how good the search for nearby places will scale. MySQL
>   has no proper spatial index. The pseudo-index I added will work for
>   smaller sites, but Wikipedia might kill this.
>

Skiplist? Hashtable? How hard are they to use an SQL database as the
backend for?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
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