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Global language preference

Petr Bena
Hi all,

We have central auth, global user pages and stuff like that, do we
have some kind of global preferences too? So that one could set
interface language to English and have it like that on every single
project they work on?

I don't really see a need to have different projects with different
interface language but if there was a need for this we could probably
make it possible to override (like add language "Same as meta" which
would be default option, or something of that kind).

Maybe something that makes this possible already exists but I am not
aware of that.

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Re: Global language preference

Martin Urbanec
Hi Petr,

an user can archieve that aim using global script and then viewing all
projects they want to change. AFAIK this was requested in the community
wishlist.

Martin

st 10. 5. 2017 v 9:20 odesílatel Petr Bena <[hidden email]> napsal:

> Hi all,
>
> We have central auth, global user pages and stuff like that, do we
> have some kind of global preferences too? So that one could set
> interface language to English and have it like that on every single
> project they work on?
>
> I don't really see a need to have different projects with different
> interface language but if there was a need for this we could probably
> make it possible to override (like add language "Same as meta" which
> would be default option, or something of that kind).
>
> Maybe something that makes this possible already exists but I am not
> aware of that.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: Global language preference

Amir E. Aharoni
In reply to this post by Petr Bena
There's an RFC about that:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Global_user_preferences

A lot of things that should be global aren't global.

Global user accounts are really global user names, passwords, and email
addresses, and not much else. User ids are not quite global—there is a
central id, but also a local id, and my impression is that the local id is
used more often. E.g., for analyzing contribution listing and statistics,
the local id is needed.

Other things I can immediately think of that should be global and aren't:
Contribution listings, cookies, watchlists. And if we move away from user
accounts and identities, then also gadgets and templates (and of course
modules). (If I could have only one of all of those things, I'd vote for
global templates without any hesitation.)

Global notifications (a.k.a. Echo) are available, which is nice. Global
user pages and common.js and common.css are possible, which is also nice.
Some people use global js to auto-set preferences in all wikis upon opening
them, which is a rather awful hack, but it does show that global
preferences are in demand.


--
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‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2017-05-10 10:19 GMT+03:00 Petr Bena <[hidden email]>:

> Hi all,
>
> We have central auth, global user pages and stuff like that, do we
> have some kind of global preferences too? So that one could set
> interface language to English and have it like that on every single
> project they work on?
>
> I don't really see a need to have different projects with different
> interface language but if there was a need for this we could probably
> make it possible to override (like add language "Same as meta" which
> would be default option, or something of that kind).
>
> Maybe something that makes this possible already exists but I am not
> aware of that.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: Global language preference

Yongmin Hong
In reply to this post by Martin Urbanec
Language is hackable via JS but settings like 'set timezone to blah blah, disable VE if it's enabled, disable compact language if enabled, set email to plaintext only, disable xwiki notification, ...' can't be done via JS hack, which is unfortunate.

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2017. 5. 10. 16:26 Martin Urbanec <[hidden email]> 작성:

> Hi Petr,
>
> an user can archieve that aim using global script and then viewing all
> projects they want to change. AFAIK this was requested in the community
> wishlist.
>
> Martin
>
> st 10. 5. 2017 v 9:20 odesílatel Petr Bena <[hidden email]> napsal:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We have central auth, global user pages and stuff like that, do we
>> have some kind of global preferences too? So that one could set
>> interface language to English and have it like that on every single
>> project they work on?
>>
>> I don't really see a need to have different projects with different
>> interface language but if there was a need for this we could probably
>> make it possible to override (like add language "Same as meta" which
>> would be default option, or something of that kind).
>>
>> Maybe something that makes this possible already exists but I am not
>> aware of that.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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Re: Global language preference

Johan Jönsson-2
A couple of relevant links:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T16950
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Developer_Summit/2017/Global_preferences

//Johan Jönsson
--

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Yongmin H. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Language is hackable via JS but settings like 'set timezone to blah blah,
> disable VE if it's enabled, disable compact language if enabled, set email
> to plaintext only, disable xwiki notification, ...' can't be done via JS
> hack, which is unfortunate.
>
> --
> Yongmin
> Sent from my iPhone
> https://wp.revi.blog
> Please note that this address is list-only address and any non-mailing
> list mails will be treated as spam.
> Please use https://encrypt.to/0x947f156f16250de39788c3c35b625da5beff197a.
>
> 2017. 5. 10. 16:26 Martin Urbanec <[hidden email]> 작성:
>
> > Hi Petr,
> >
> > an user can archieve that aim using global script and then viewing all
> > projects they want to change. AFAIK this was requested in the community
> > wishlist.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > st 10. 5. 2017 v 9:20 odesílatel Petr Bena <[hidden email]> napsal:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> We have central auth, global user pages and stuff like that, do we
> >> have some kind of global preferences too? So that one could set
> >> interface language to English and have it like that on every single
> >> project they work on?
> >>
> >> I don't really see a need to have different projects with different
> >> interface language but if there was a need for this we could probably
> >> make it possible to override (like add language "Same as meta" which
> >> would be default option, or something of that kind).
> >>
> >> Maybe something that makes this possible already exists but I am not
> >> aware of that.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikitech-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Global language preference

Petr Bena
I understand that there exist some JS hacks, but I doubt that is what
average user can live with. I think we should make these options
available for general public, in a user-friendly manner and not only
to few people with knowledge that enables them to hack mediawiki
interface so that it works well enough for them.

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A couple of relevant links:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T16950
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Developer_Summit/2017/Global_preferences
>
> //Johan Jönsson
> --
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Yongmin H. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Language is hackable via JS but settings like 'set timezone to blah blah,
>> disable VE if it's enabled, disable compact language if enabled, set email
>> to plaintext only, disable xwiki notification, ...' can't be done via JS
>> hack, which is unfortunate.
>>
>> --
>> Yongmin
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> https://wp.revi.blog
>> Please note that this address is list-only address and any non-mailing
>> list mails will be treated as spam.
>> Please use https://encrypt.to/0x947f156f16250de39788c3c35b625da5beff197a.
>>
>> 2017. 5. 10. 16:26 Martin Urbanec <[hidden email]> 작성:
>>
>> > Hi Petr,
>> >
>> > an user can archieve that aim using global script and then viewing all
>> > projects they want to change. AFAIK this was requested in the community
>> > wishlist.
>> >
>> > Martin
>> >
>> > st 10. 5. 2017 v 9:20 odesílatel Petr Bena <[hidden email]> napsal:
>> >
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> We have central auth, global user pages and stuff like that, do we
>> >> have some kind of global preferences too? So that one could set
>> >> interface language to English and have it like that on every single
>> >> project they work on?
>> >>
>> >> I don't really see a need to have different projects with different
>> >> interface language but if there was a need for this we could probably
>> >> make it possible to override (like add language "Same as meta" which
>> >> would be default option, or something of that kind).
>> >>
>> >> Maybe something that makes this possible already exists but I am not
>> >> aware of that.
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikitech-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Global language preference

Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
In reply to this post by Yongmin Hong
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Yongmin H. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Language is hackable via JS but settings like 'set timezone to blah blah,
> disable VE if it's enabled, disable compact language if enabled, set email
> to plaintext only, disable xwiki notification, ...' can't be done via JS
> hack, which is unfortunate.
>

It probably can, almost[1] anything you can change in Special:Preferences
could be changed via something in your global user JS calling the action
API's action=options.

The main drawback is that it wouldn't take effect on a wiki until after the
first time you visit a page there that loads your global user JS.


[1]: There are a few things like 'realname' and 'emailaddress' that can't
be set that way.

--
Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
Senior Software Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: Global language preference

Derk-Jan Hartman
We had some discussions about this at the devsummit, since it was on one of
the wish lists..
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T16950

At that time I suggested it would probably be easier and less risky, to
start of with a tools project, that allows you to apply a setting to all
our properties. Saves you a lot of the effort of figuring out how to
'position' this in the UI, and what to do when people want exceptions to
global defaults etc..

DJ

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Yongmin H. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Language is hackable via JS but settings like 'set timezone to blah blah,
> > disable VE if it's enabled, disable compact language if enabled, set
> email
> > to plaintext only, disable xwiki notification, ...' can't be done via JS
> > hack, which is unfortunate.
> >
>
> It probably can, almost[1] anything you can change in Special:Preferences
> could be changed via something in your global user JS calling the action
> API's action=options.
>
> The main drawback is that it wouldn't take effect on a wiki until after the
> first time you visit a page there that loads your global user JS.
>
>
> [1]: There are a few things like 'realname' and 'emailaddress' that can't
> be set that way.
>
> --
> Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
> Senior Software Engineer
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Global language preference

Bryan Davis
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Derk-Jan Hartman
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> We had some discussions about this at the devsummit, since it was on one of
> the wish lists..
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T16950
>
> At that time I suggested it would probably be easier and less risky, to
> start of with a tools project, that allows you to apply a setting to all
> our properties. Saves you a lot of the effort of figuring out how to
> 'position' this in the UI, and what to do when people want exceptions to
> global defaults etc..

Kunal has a rough start on such a tool at
<http://tools.wmflabs.org/globalprefs/>. The source looks to be a
<https://github.com/legoktm/globalprefs>. Maybe some folks would like
to collaborate on expanding that tool to make a nicer working proof of
concept?

Bryan
--
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Re: Global language preference

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
Brad Jorsch (Anomie) wrote:

>On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Yongmin H. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Language is hackable via JS but settings like 'set timezone to blah
>>blah, disable VE if it's enabled, disable compact language if enabled,
>>set email to plaintext only, disable xwiki notification, ...' can't be
>>done via JS hack, which is unfortunate.
>
>It probably can, almost[1] anything you can change in Special:Preferences
>could be changed via something in your global user JS calling the action
>API's action=options.
>
>The main drawback is that it wouldn't take effect on a wiki until after
>the first time you visit a page there that loads your global user JS.

Yes, but that's not so bad. After someone deleted a ton of skin user
preferences, I added this snippet to my "global.js" subpage on Meta-Wiki,
with Legoktm's help:

/* Set skin to MonoBook */
mw.loader.using("mediawiki.user", function() {
    if ( mw.user.options.get('skin') !== 'monobook' ) {
        mw.loader.load("mediawiki.notify");
        ( new mw.Api() ).postWithToken( 'options', {
            action: "options",
            change: "skin=monobook"
        } ).done( function() {
            mw.loader.using("mediawiki.notify", function(){
                mw.notify( "Skin has been changed to MonoBook. Please
refresh the page." );
            } );
        } );
    }
} );

It works pretty well. It's certainly easier than going to
Special:Preferences on each wiki. Some links:

* https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T16950#2185759 (April 2016)
* https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T154956#2929966 (January 2017)

MZMcBride



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Re: Global language preference

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Bryan Davis
Bryan Davis wrote:
>Kunal has a rough start on such a tool at
><http://tools.wmflabs.org/globalprefs/>. The source looks to be a
><https://github.com/legoktm/globalprefs>. Maybe some folks would like
>to collaborate on expanding that tool to make a nicer working proof of
>concept?

Why? Do you really believe that setting global user preferences should
require a third-party Python Flask tool that relies on JavaScript and
OAuth to set a user preference on every wiki? How is duplicating a default
value to hundreds of wikis, in a separate code base with its own user
interface, a sane or desirable architecture?

MZMcBride



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Re: Global language preference

Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 7:41 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> How is duplicating a default
> value to hundreds of wikis, in a separate code base with its own user
> interface, a sane or desirable architecture?
>

Sane or desirable? Probably not. But it seems a lot easier for someone to
get that working than to design, implement, and deploy global preferences
in MediaWiki, either in core or as an extension.

Of course, if someone does want to work on implementing a global
preferences extension and doing the work to get it deployed, then more
power to them. A better solution to be sure, but it'll likely take more
time and effort.

Or, I suppose, someone can try to convince a WMF team's PM that it should
be prioritized above the team's existing work. But that seems like the
least timely way to get it done, and I can give no estimate of the
probability of success.


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Re: Global language preference

Amir E. Aharoni
2017-05-11 17:16 GMT+03:00 Brad Jorsch (Anomie) <[hidden email]>:

> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 7:41 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > How is duplicating a default
> > value to hundreds of wikis, in a separate code base with its own user
> > interface, a sane or desirable architecture?
> >
>
> Sane or desirable? Probably not. But it seems a lot easier for someone to
> get that working than to design, implement, and deploy global preferences
> in MediaWiki, either in core or as an extension.
>
> Of course, if someone does want to work on implementing a global
> preferences extension and doing the work to get it deployed, then more
> power to them. A better solution to be sure, but it'll likely take more
> time and effort.
>
> Or, I suppose, someone can try to convince a WMF team's PM that it should
> be prioritized above the team's existing work. But that seems like the
> least timely way to get it done, and I can give no estimate of the
> probability of success.
>

My understanding is that the code is kind of there already, but it would
have to be deployed, and before deployment it would have to be reviewed. So
the manager to convince would be the manager of the team that needs to
review and deploy it.

Being the PM of the Language team, I couldn't support global preferences
(and lots of other global things) any more strongly, as they would be
clearly beneficial to the users of multiple wikis. But in the current
organizational structure, the implementation and the deployment of global
preferences is much closer to the realm of the MediaWiki Platform team.


--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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Re: Global language preference

Legoktm
Hi,

On 05/11/2017 07:29 AM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
> 2017-05-11 17:16 GMT+03:00 Brad Jorsch (Anomie) <[hidden email]>:
>> Of course, if someone does want to work on implementing a global
>> preferences extension and doing the work to get it deployed, then more
>> power to them. A better solution to be sure, but it'll likely take more
>> time and effort.

> My understanding is that the code is kind of there already, but it would
> have to be deployed, and before deployment it would have to be reviewed. So
> the manager to convince would be the manager of the team that needs to
> review and deploy it.

So I wrote Extension:GlobalPreferences[1] a while back because the Tool
Labs tool I wrote was a pretty hacky prototype that I was unhappy with.

The main place the extension needs work is a UI that isn't extremely
hacky. The part that loads user options out of a central table and
overrides locally set ones is basically done.

[1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GlobalPreferences

-- Legoktm

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