Help needed to let mobile readers know about new mobile PDF download feature

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Help needed to let mobile readers know about new mobile PDF download feature

Chris Koerner-2
Hello,
The Readers team at the foundation has created an easier way to download pdfs of articles from a mobile device. We would like to tell people about this. Offline PDFs are helpful when Internet access is not consistent. Please help translate this message.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF

Thank you for your help!

Yours,
Chris Koerner
Community Liaison
Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: Help needed to let mobile readers know about new mobile PDF download feature

Anoop Rao
Done Kannada language

I have changed title ( New print to pdf feature for mobile web readers ) in translation as (new print feature for mobile web readers) thinking it would be suitable, since when translated your title might also mean :: new/secondary print version to PDF feature for mobile web readers ::


On 16-Nov-2017 3:55 am, "Chris Koerner" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,
The Readers team at the foundation has created an easier way to download pdfs of articles from a mobile device. We would like to tell people about this. Offline PDFs are helpful when Internet access is not consistent. Please help translate this message.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF

Thank you for your help!

Yours,
Chris Koerner
Community Liaison
Wikimedia Foundation

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l


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Re: Help needed to let mobile readers know about new mobile PDF download feature

Sylvain Chiron
From my point of view, ‘PDF’ is an important piece of the title which
should really appear in the translation, but you might know what you’re
doing. ‘Print to PDF’ can actually be translated like ‘output as pdf’
(or even ‘get as pdf’ here) which is the best for French.

Regards,

Sylvain Chiron
Translator for French

Le 16/11/2017 à 00:04, Anoop Rao a écrit :

> Done Kannada language
>
> I have changed title ( *New print to pdf feature for mobile web
> readers* ) in translation as (new print feature for mobile web readers)
> thinking it would be suitable, since when translated your title might
> also mean :: new/secondary print version to PDF feature for mobile web
> readers ::
>
>
> On 16-Nov-2017 3:55 am, "Chris Koerner" <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hello,
>     The Readers team at the foundation has created an easier way to
>     download pdfs of articles from a mobile device. We would like to
>     tell people about this. Offline PDFs are helpful when Internet
>     access is not consistent. Please help translate this message.
>
>     https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF
>     <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF>
>
>     Thank you for your help!
>
>     Yours,
>     Chris Koerner
>     Community Liaison
>     Wikimedia Foundation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Translators-l mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>     <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>

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Re: Help needed to let mobile readers know about new mobile PDF download feature

Philippe Verdy
PDF format is not necessarily available on all mobiles. PDF readers tend to use themselves too much space and requires frequent updates, or frequently contain too many ads (some of them even require to have an Internet connection before using them, as they want to share what you download and extensive profiling data for who is reading documents that these apps actually did not create, and then insert targetted ads related to the PDF contents.
If one wants really mobility (i.e. offline reading) there are better formats that are less intrusive, and whose readers are both safer, with much less unnecessariy plugins such as online form editors or cloud printing or reshares on social networks.

"ebooks" formats (or core HTML, not requiring active scripts and online APIs, or even TXT) are usually better suited for mobility: they have the advantage of being suitable for all screen sizes (not the case of PDFs whose page layout is static, and that requires constant zooming, and horizontal panning to read them on most smartphones: a PDF is only suitable on smartphones for a single page (letter or A4 max). Even MS Office .doc[x] are easier to use on smartphones (there's a free viewer for it, and it's really small, faster and much more secure than most PDF readers, including the Reader made by Adobe, and which is still not workiong correctly on many smartphones as they require excessive privileges or frequently depend on tricky/unsupported/unstable APIs of the mobile OS, or are supproted only on the most recent versions of these OSes; Adobe Reader for smartphones is also too frequently targetted by third party apps that want to modify its behavior by adding their own hooks that Adobe Reader uses without any question)!

I don't have any PDF reader on my smartphone. I have only the old one that was preinstalled but that I have blocked completely (againsst all updates and all its autostarted services). If I need a PDF, I'll download and read it on my PC, or I'll save it to Google Drive and Google will render it and allow me to view it without activating many services and third-party plugins. This is rare: I do that only to view some billing or purchase order, but I won't store any PDF on my smartphone.

MediaWiki should better support the exports as eBooks formats, but the PDF format is the worst one for mobiles, including in terms of accessibility.


2017-11-16 13:10 GMT+01:00 Sylvain Chiron <[hidden email]>:
From my point of view, ‘PDF’ is an important piece of the title which
should really appear in the translation, but you might know what you’re
doing. ‘Print to PDF’ can actually be translated like ‘output as pdf’
(or even ‘get as pdf’ here) which is the best for French.

Regards,

Sylvain Chiron
Translator for French

Le 16/11/2017 à 00:04, Anoop Rao a écrit :
> Done Kannada language
>
> I have changed title ( *New print to pdf feature for mobile web
> readers* ) in translation as (new print feature for mobile web readers)
> thinking it would be suitable, since when translated your title might
> also mean :: new/secondary print version to PDF feature for mobile web
> readers ::
>
>
> On 16-Nov-2017 3:55 am, "Chris Koerner" <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hello,
>     The Readers team at the foundation has created an easier way to
>     download pdfs of articles from a mobile device. We would like to
>     tell people about this. Offline PDFs are helpful when Internet
>     access is not consistent. Please help translate this message.
>
>     https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF
>     <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF>
>
>     Thank you for your help!
>
>     Yours,
>     Chris Koerner
>     Community Liaison
>     Wikimedia Foundation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Translators-l mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>     <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l


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[hidden email]
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Re: Help needed to let mobile readers know about new mobile PDF download feature

Chris Koerner-2
Thanks all for the thoughtful discussion and the translation assistance. More are obviously welcome. 

Yours,
Chris Koerner
Community Liaison
Wikimedia Foundation

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 7:21 AM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
PDF format is not necessarily available on all mobiles. PDF readers tend to use themselves too much space and requires frequent updates, or frequently contain too many ads (some of them even require to have an Internet connection before using them, as they want to share what you download and extensive profiling data for who is reading documents that these apps actually did not create, and then insert targetted ads related to the PDF contents.
If one wants really mobility (i.e. offline reading) there are better formats that are less intrusive, and whose readers are both safer, with much less unnecessariy plugins such as online form editors or cloud printing or reshares on social networks.

"ebooks" formats (or core HTML, not requiring active scripts and online APIs, or even TXT) are usually better suited for mobility: they have the advantage of being suitable for all screen sizes (not the case of PDFs whose page layout is static, and that requires constant zooming, and horizontal panning to read them on most smartphones: a PDF is only suitable on smartphones for a single page (letter or A4 max). Even MS Office .doc[x] are easier to use on smartphones (there's a free viewer for it, and it's really small, faster and much more secure than most PDF readers, including the Reader made by Adobe, and which is still not workiong correctly on many smartphones as they require excessive privileges or frequently depend on tricky/unsupported/unstable APIs of the mobile OS, or are supproted only on the most recent versions of these OSes; Adobe Reader for smartphones is also too frequently targetted by third party apps that want to modify its behavior by adding their own hooks that Adobe Reader uses without any question)!

I don't have any PDF reader on my smartphone. I have only the old one that was preinstalled but that I have blocked completely (againsst all updates and all its autostarted services). If I need a PDF, I'll download and read it on my PC, or I'll save it to Google Drive and Google will render it and allow me to view it without activating many services and third-party plugins. This is rare: I do that only to view some billing or purchase order, but I won't store any PDF on my smartphone.

MediaWiki should better support the exports as eBooks formats, but the PDF format is the worst one for mobiles, including in terms of accessibility.


2017-11-16 13:10 GMT+01:00 Sylvain Chiron <[hidden email]>:
From my point of view, ‘PDF’ is an important piece of the title which
should really appear in the translation, but you might know what you’re
doing. ‘Print to PDF’ can actually be translated like ‘output as pdf’
(or even ‘get as pdf’ here) which is the best for French.

Regards,

Sylvain Chiron
Translator for French

Le 16/11/2017 à 00:04, Anoop Rao a écrit :
> Done Kannada language
>
> I have changed title ( *New print to pdf feature for mobile web
> readers* ) in translation as (new print feature for mobile web readers)
> thinking it would be suitable, since when translated your title might
> also mean :: new/secondary print version to PDF feature for mobile web
> readers ::
>
>
> On 16-Nov-2017 3:55 am, "Chris Koerner" <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hello,
>     The Readers team at the foundation has created an easier way to
>     download pdfs of articles from a mobile device. We would like to
>     tell people about this. Offline PDFs are helpful when Internet
>     access is not consistent. Please help translate this message.
>
>     https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF
>     <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF>
>
>     Thank you for your help!
>
>     Yours,
>     Chris Koerner
>     Community Liaison
>     Wikimedia Foundation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Translators-l mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>     <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l


_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l



_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
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Re: Help needed to let mobile readers know about new mobile PDF download feature

Philippe Verdy
Anyway, for those users that want an accessible application for offline reading on their mobiles, I still think that the Mediawiki reader will be more convenient, will use much less storage, will be free of undesired plugins, will save battery.

PDFs on mobiles are only suitable on large tablets (not smartphones: even at 5 inches it's unusable), and even on tablets, there's too frequently limited storage forcing them to be connected to a cloud: why not simply connecting them to the real online wiki website, using their builtin browser, without any additional app?

For smartphones (generally not more than 5 inches) or small tablets (with less than 10 inch screen width) the Wiki reader app will alway be a winner: it should work better to offer transparent downloading and caching for offline reading, and it will be usable: fontsizes adjustable, page layout better adapted. The wiki reader app will generally be much smaller to install and safer than any existing PDF reader app.

2017-11-16 20:59 GMT+01:00 Chris Koerner <[hidden email]>:
Thanks all for the thoughtful discussion and the translation assistance. More are obviously welcome. 

Yours,
Chris Koerner
Community Liaison
Wikimedia Foundation

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 7:21 AM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
PDF format is not necessarily available on all mobiles. PDF readers tend to use themselves too much space and requires frequent updates, or frequently contain too many ads (some of them even require to have an Internet connection before using them, as they want to share what you download and extensive profiling data for who is reading documents that these apps actually did not create, and then insert targetted ads related to the PDF contents.
If one wants really mobility (i.e. offline reading) there are better formats that are less intrusive, and whose readers are both safer, with much less unnecessariy plugins such as online form editors or cloud printing or reshares on social networks.

"ebooks" formats (or core HTML, not requiring active scripts and online APIs, or even TXT) are usually better suited for mobility: they have the advantage of being suitable for all screen sizes (not the case of PDFs whose page layout is static, and that requires constant zooming, and horizontal panning to read them on most smartphones: a PDF is only suitable on smartphones for a single page (letter or A4 max). Even MS Office .doc[x] are easier to use on smartphones (there's a free viewer for it, and it's really small, faster and much more secure than most PDF readers, including the Reader made by Adobe, and which is still not workiong correctly on many smartphones as they require excessive privileges or frequently depend on tricky/unsupported/unstable APIs of the mobile OS, or are supproted only on the most recent versions of these OSes; Adobe Reader for smartphones is also too frequently targetted by third party apps that want to modify its behavior by adding their own hooks that Adobe Reader uses without any question)!

I don't have any PDF reader on my smartphone. I have only the old one that was preinstalled but that I have blocked completely (againsst all updates and all its autostarted services). If I need a PDF, I'll download and read it on my PC, or I'll save it to Google Drive and Google will render it and allow me to view it without activating many services and third-party plugins. This is rare: I do that only to view some billing or purchase order, but I won't store any PDF on my smartphone.

MediaWiki should better support the exports as eBooks formats, but the PDF format is the worst one for mobiles, including in terms of accessibility.


2017-11-16 13:10 GMT+01:00 Sylvain Chiron <[hidden email]>:
From my point of view, ‘PDF’ is an important piece of the title which
should really appear in the translation, but you might know what you’re
doing. ‘Print to PDF’ can actually be translated like ‘output as pdf’
(or even ‘get as pdf’ here) which is the best for French.

Regards,

Sylvain Chiron
Translator for French

Le 16/11/2017 à 00:04, Anoop Rao a écrit :
> Done Kannada language
>
> I have changed title ( *New print to pdf feature for mobile web
> readers* ) in translation as (new print feature for mobile web readers)
> thinking it would be suitable, since when translated your title might
> also mean :: new/secondary print version to PDF feature for mobile web
> readers ::
>
>
> On 16-Nov-2017 3:55 am, "Chris Koerner" <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hello,
>     The Readers team at the foundation has created an easier way to
>     download pdfs of articles from a mobile device. We would like to
>     tell people about this. Offline PDFs are helpful when Internet
>     access is not consistent. Please help translate this message.
>
>     https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF
>     <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF>
>
>     Thank you for your help!
>
>     Yours,
>     Chris Koerner
>     Community Liaison
>     Wikimedia Foundation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Translators-l mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>     <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l


_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l




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Re: Help needed to let mobile readers know about new mobile PDF download feature

Joe Sutherland
Hi Philippe - not to intrude, but I don't believe this is the right place to discuss the benefits and drawbacks to mobile PDFs. I would instead comment on the relevant Phabricator tickets so that the technical teams can see your feedback.

best,
Joe

--
Joe Sutherland (he/him or they/them)
Community Advocate
Wikimedia Foundation

On 16 November 2017 at 12:16, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
Anyway, for those users that want an accessible application for offline reading on their mobiles, I still think that the Mediawiki reader will be more convenient, will use much less storage, will be free of undesired plugins, will save battery.

PDFs on mobiles are only suitable on large tablets (not smartphones: even at 5 inches it's unusable), and even on tablets, there's too frequently limited storage forcing them to be connected to a cloud: why not simply connecting them to the real online wiki website, using their builtin browser, without any additional app?

For smartphones (generally not more than 5 inches) or small tablets (with less than 10 inch screen width) the Wiki reader app will alway be a winner: it should work better to offer transparent downloading and caching for offline reading, and it will be usable: fontsizes adjustable, page layout better adapted. The wiki reader app will generally be much smaller to install and safer than any existing PDF reader app.

2017-11-16 20:59 GMT+01:00 Chris Koerner <[hidden email]>:
Thanks all for the thoughtful discussion and the translation assistance. More are obviously welcome. 

Yours,
Chris Koerner
Community Liaison
Wikimedia Foundation

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 7:21 AM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
PDF format is not necessarily available on all mobiles. PDF readers tend to use themselves too much space and requires frequent updates, or frequently contain too many ads (some of them even require to have an Internet connection before using them, as they want to share what you download and extensive profiling data for who is reading documents that these apps actually did not create, and then insert targetted ads related to the PDF contents.
If one wants really mobility (i.e. offline reading) there are better formats that are less intrusive, and whose readers are both safer, with much less unnecessariy plugins such as online form editors or cloud printing or reshares on social networks.

"ebooks" formats (or core HTML, not requiring active scripts and online APIs, or even TXT) are usually better suited for mobility: they have the advantage of being suitable for all screen sizes (not the case of PDFs whose page layout is static, and that requires constant zooming, and horizontal panning to read them on most smartphones: a PDF is only suitable on smartphones for a single page (letter or A4 max). Even MS Office .doc[x] are easier to use on smartphones (there's a free viewer for it, and it's really small, faster and much more secure than most PDF readers, including the Reader made by Adobe, and which is still not workiong correctly on many smartphones as they require excessive privileges or frequently depend on tricky/unsupported/unstable APIs of the mobile OS, or are supproted only on the most recent versions of these OSes; Adobe Reader for smartphones is also too frequently targetted by third party apps that want to modify its behavior by adding their own hooks that Adobe Reader uses without any question)!

I don't have any PDF reader on my smartphone. I have only the old one that was preinstalled but that I have blocked completely (againsst all updates and all its autostarted services). If I need a PDF, I'll download and read it on my PC, or I'll save it to Google Drive and Google will render it and allow me to view it without activating many services and third-party plugins. This is rare: I do that only to view some billing or purchase order, but I won't store any PDF on my smartphone.

MediaWiki should better support the exports as eBooks formats, but the PDF format is the worst one for mobiles, including in terms of accessibility.


2017-11-16 13:10 GMT+01:00 Sylvain Chiron <[hidden email]>:
From my point of view, ‘PDF’ is an important piece of the title which
should really appear in the translation, but you might know what you’re
doing. ‘Print to PDF’ can actually be translated like ‘output as pdf’
(or even ‘get as pdf’ here) which is the best for French.

Regards,

Sylvain Chiron
Translator for French

Le 16/11/2017 à 00:04, Anoop Rao a écrit :
> Done Kannada language
>
> I have changed title ( *New print to pdf feature for mobile web
> readers* ) in translation as (new print feature for mobile web readers)
> thinking it would be suitable, since when translated your title might
> also mean :: new/secondary print version to PDF feature for mobile web
> readers ::
>
>
> On 16-Nov-2017 3:55 am, "Chris Koerner" <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hello,
>     The Readers team at the foundation has created an easier way to
>     download pdfs of articles from a mobile device. We would like to
>     tell people about this. Offline PDFs are helpful when Internet
>     access is not consistent. Please help translate this message.
>
>     https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF
>     <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:CKoerner_(WMF)/Mobile_PDF>
>
>     Thank you for your help!
>
>     Yours,
>     Chris Koerner
>     Community Liaison
>     Wikimedia Foundation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Translators-l mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>     <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l


_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l




_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l



_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l