Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

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Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

P. Birken
Hiho,

the flagged Revisions extension is nearing completion, thanks to Joerg
Baach and particular Aaron Schulz:
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/.
The thing we are having the most trouble is the GUI, which uses CSS.
Here, help would be most appreciated. So, if anybody here would like
to give us a hand, heres a description of how it should be:

Inside the extension, two GUIs are sort of hidde. One is "Aarons GUI",
which is fine and working on all skins. Then there is "Joergs GUI",
which works only on Monobook and is very useful for what will alter be
the german wikipedia version of this extension. This one uses CSS and
here we need some help:

# The GUI should be changeable in mediawiki settings (so that Aarons
and Jörgs are both usable).
# The box that appears when clicking on an icon should overlap the
text, not move it around.
# The icon should be placed outside the content box, on the same height as
the lemma, to the right.
# The icon that is shown should correspond to the type of version the viewer
is seeing (quality aka reviewed, sighted or not flagged).

If you want to help and have further questions, please contact Aaron
Schulz or Daniel Arnold (I will be on holiday the next three weeks).

Bye,

Philipp

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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Aryeh Gregor
On 7/23/07, P. Birken <[hidden email]> wrote:
> # The GUI should be changeable in mediawiki settings (so that Aarons
> and Jörgs are both usable).

We should not have multiple interfaces to the same thing.  That's
confusing to the users and makes no sense.  We should pick whichever
one is better, possibly integrating good aspects of the other, and
have one.
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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Aaron Schulz
How would that confuse users? Either it is all globally set to one or the
other?

At any rate, the second, "simple", UI would be the one to go most likely.
The box would be stuck on for non-JS users and it doesn't really use that
much less space. I've got the default, standard, UI down to using 1 line
tags.

-Aaron Schulz





>From: Simetrical <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: Wikimedia developers <[hidden email]>
>To: "Wikimedia developers" <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions
>Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:22:27 -0400
>
>On 7/23/07, P. Birken <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > # The GUI should be changeable in mediawiki settings (so that Aarons
> > and Jörgs are both usable).
>
>We should not have multiple interfaces to the same thing.  That's
>confusing to the users and makes no sense.  We should pick whichever
>one is better, possibly integrating good aspects of the other, and
>have one.
>_______________________________________________
>Wikitech-l mailing list
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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Rob Church
On 23/07/07, Aaron Schulz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How would that confuse users? Either it is all globally set to one or the
> other?

Having multiple alternate user interfaces for the same operation is
undesirable in the same vein that introducing needless preference
options is; it multiples the number of individual scenarios we have to
support, and it should be quite obvious that this is a forthcoming
large feature, where we need as simple a support scenario as possible.

A single, clean, well-designed user interface is best; this can be
augmented with some JavaScript, provided it degrades in a graceful
fashion, of course, but giving users the option to pick from several
interfaces for the same task is a bad idea.


Rob Church

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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Aaron Schulz
As I said before, the users don't choose, the sysadmin sets it in
localsettings.php.

Also, the interface options are only for how the tag on pages shows, not
about the review form or the any of the special pages.

-Aaron Schulz





>From: "Rob Church" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: Wikimedia developers <[hidden email]>
>To: "Wikimedia developers" <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:49:59 +0100
>
>A single, clean, well-designed user interface is best; this can be
>augmented with some JavaScript, provided it degrades in a graceful
>fashion, of course, but giving users the option to pick from several
>interfaces for the same task is a bad idea.
>
>
>Rob Church
>
>_______________________________________________
>Wikitech-l mailing list
>[hidden email]
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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Brion Vibber-3
Aaron Schulz wrote:
> As I said before, the users don't choose, the sysadmin sets it in
> localsettings.php.

There can be only one!
</highlander>

The sensible thing would seem to be to fix up the nice one so it works,
and then only have to worry about having one.

-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)


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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Rob Church
On 24/07/07, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Aaron Schulz wrote:
> > As I said before, the users don't choose, the sysadmin sets it in
> > localsettings.php.
>
> There can be only one!
> </highlander>

I had this wonderful image pop into my head a moment ago; a sort of
Celtic Brion, with flaming beard, covered in woad and other bits and
pieces, and he was waving this enormous great sword...and...then he
opened his mouth, and all he said was "dude".

I'm a little disappointed.


Rob Church

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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Phil Boswell
Rob Church wrote
On 24/07/07, Brion Vibber <brion@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> There can be only one!
> </highlander>
I had this wonderful image pop into my head a moment ago; a sort of
Celtic Brion, with flaming beard, covered in woad and other bits and
pieces, and he was waving this enormous great sword...and...then he
opened his mouth, and all he said was "dude".

I'm a little disappointed.
Well, the rest of the line was "Where are my *clothes*?", so it sounds like you got off lightly.

Those ancient woad-guys, they didn't have cars, you see, but they did have Kiera Knightley, which makes up for a lot.
--
Phil
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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Daniel Arnold
In reply to this post by Brion Vibber-3
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 19:56:22 Brion Vibber wrote:
> Aaron Schulz wrote:
> > As I said before, the users don't choose, the sysadmin sets it in
> > localsettings.php.
>
> There can be only one!
> </highlander>
>
> The sensible thing would seem to be to fix up the nice one so it works,
> and then only have to worry about having one.

Anyways there is one specific problem we need to solve:

How to inject an item into the page caption? Currently this does not seem to
be possible as every HTML you inject there with an extension gets escaped.

This is not specific to the FlaggedRevs extension. The LanguageSelector
extension by Duesentrieb also wants to provide an item at this place with the
LanguageSelectorIntoTitle option.

So there are multiple use cases for the ability to inject an item there.

To your points with multiple GUIs:

Your thoughts aren't wrong but you aren't aware of some problems that made
this necessary:
* Almost every corner of the GUI in Wikipedia is used either by usual
MediaWiki features or some custom JavaScript/CSS (and they differ between
various projects). You simply don't want to touch this and probably b0rk a
lot of custom stuff. So the remaining options aren't so much and if you have
more than one option every project can choose the one that causes the least
adoption problems for them.
* Differrent Wikipedias want different types of FlaggedRevs. de.wikipedia
wants a super-simple two level flagging with one flag: Every autoconfirmed
user (of course a custom autoconfirmation with 30 days + 30 edits) can flag
an article revision at the "ok" level (we used the clumsy "sighted" a bad
translation from German into English ;-) and any user that is in the reviewer
user group can perform the higher "reviewed" degree of the quality flag.
en.wikipedia in contrast (at least Erik and others) opted for a more
extensive flagging system with multiple flags that cover certain article
aspects such as "readability", "completeness"...
* The en.wikipedia approach needs more screenspace cause there is more
available information. Thus the page caption is not the ideal article status
display place for the en.wikipedia approach but perfectly for de.wikipedia.
In contrast the more verbose display option of en.wikipedia is to large for
the simple de.wikipedia aproach and as screen space isn't infinit you
necessarily want the smallest possible item size.

So yes you have indeed a very valid point but you can be sure that we did
think about this a lot (and we are very much aware that there are still
things that need to be ironed out in the GUI of FlaggedRevs).

Daniel Arnold / Arnomane

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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Erik Moeller-4
On 7/25/07, Daniel Arnold <[hidden email]> wrote:
> en.wikipedia in contrast (at least Erik and others) opted for a more
> extensive flagging system with multiple flags that cover certain article
> aspects such as "readability", "completeness"...

Actually my view is that we probably should start with an even simpler
system on en.wp, i.e. focus on getting vandalism-review right, but the
point of having a flexible system is being free to experiment with
different settings in different environments, and the UI should
reflect that. I can also see the need for customized UIs to meet the
needs of specific communities & see nothing fundamentally wrong with
having multiple UIs here.
--
Toward Peace, Love & Progress:
Erik

DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of
the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.

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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Aryeh Gregor
In reply to this post by Daniel Arnold
On 7/25/07, Daniel Arnold <[hidden email]> wrote:
> * Almost every corner of the GUI in Wikipedia is used either by usual
> MediaWiki features or some custom JavaScript/CSS (and they differ between
> various projects). You simply don't want to touch this and probably b0rk a
> lot of custom stuff.

There are a number of places to insert extra stuff: content actions,
toolbox, page caption [although perhaps that's not flexible enough],
footer, message boxes stuck anywhere you like.  If existing
customizations are fragile enough to be b0rkable, then that's the
fault of their authors and it's the customizations that will have to
be fixed.

> * Differrent Wikipedias want different types of FlaggedRevs. de.wikipedia
> wants a super-simple two level flagging with one flag . . . en.wikipedia in
> contrast (at least Erik and others) opted for a more extensive flagging
> system . . .

Then a minimal number of parts of the system should vary according to
the number of levels available, if this is the issue, and everything
else should remain identical between the two.  Perhaps I'm
misunderstanding you and that's all that's been done?  Are there
screenshots available of the interfaces?

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Re: Help with CSS in Flagged Revisions

Daniel Arnold
On Wednesday 25 July 2007 20:40:22 Simetrical wrote:
> There are a number of places to insert extra stuff: content actions,
> toolbox, page caption [although perhaps that's not flexible enough],
> footer, message boxes stuck anywhere you like.

The left side is already to big, cause of sidebar, tools, search and interwiki
links: It is not good to scroll in order to see the last interwiki, any new
element in the toolbox would reduce visibility of interwikis and this can't
be good as these other langauges feature is one of our unique strengths.

Page caption (aligned to the right on the title line) is a good place for an
easy setup but sadly currently any html code injected there gets escaped, so
MediaWiki needs to be patched in order to be able using it.

Footer is too invisible (you don't want to read after reading that the version
you read was the wrong one) and currently used for applying the flags.

In the content reagion below the title you will have the problem of stacked
templates like current event, neutrality... but still it is one of the two
possible places.

> If existing
> customizations are fragile enough to be b0rkable, then that's the
> fault of their authors and it's the customizations that will have to
> be fixed.

Well depends how widespread they are. At the moment it is technically no
problem inserting an element in the sitenotice line to the right. But guess
what is there? Coordinates, featured article icon, locked article icon and
some other heavily used stuff. Do you want to mess with the people if you
don't need to? ;-)

> Then a minimal number of parts of the system should vary according to
> the number of levels available, if this is the issue, and everything
> else should remain identical between the two.  Perhaps I'm
> misunderstanding you and that's all that's been done?  Are there
> screenshots available of the interfaces?

There are two testwikis. Interested people please contact Aaron, Erik or me
off-list (as this feature is beeing awaited for so long we want to keep it a
bit under the radar in order to calm any outside expectations).

However be aware that although that all features for the first version are
there the GUI still needs to be ironed out.

Arnomane

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