How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

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How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Ron Ritzman
I understand that new articles get close scrutiny but just how do
deletable articles that have been around for a while come to the
attention to those who regularly nominate articles for deletion?
(especially if the article is otherwise well written)

I ask this because recently I came across a fairly well written
article about a computer term that had a prod tag on it for being an
unsourced neologism. It probably was since all the google hits for it
pointed to mirrors of its WP article but I still decided to replace
the prod with a sources tag to give the original author a chance to
add a source. However, I started to wonder why the person who first
prodded it suspected it was a neologism as it couldn't have been the
first term he ran across on wikipedia that he never heard about. Does
he prod them all?

The same could be asked about notability. Just what makes one suspect
that a particular person/band/school/company/webcomic etc. is not
notable? Please note that I am not saying that such articles should be
kept but there has to be something in an otherwise well written
article to cause someone to investigate the article's eligibility to
be in wikipedia besides "I've never heard if him/it"
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Andrew Gray
On 28/12/06, Ron Ritzman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I understand that new articles get close scrutiny but just how do
> deletable articles that have been around for a while come to the
> attention to those who regularly nominate articles for deletion?
> (especially if the article is otherwise well written)

A general way for a new article to come to the attention of those
working "in the field" is that a new article tends to mean various
links need set up, so the related articles get edited and it becomes
obvious that way. Or they may notice a redlink has turned blue; same
idea.

(Interestingly, many of the articles we want *least* - very
intentionally promotional ones - are the easiest to find this way, as
people sometimes go a step too far and try to work in references to it
from thousands of pages...)

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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

David Ashby
On 28/12/06, Ron Ritzman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I understand that new articles get close scrutiny but just how do
> deletable articles that have been around for a while come to the
> attention to those who regularly nominate articles for deletion?
> (especially if the article is otherwise well written)

Personally, in this order:
Stumble across them as I read pages.
IRC chat.
Random button.
Category browsing.

-David
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Charles Matthews
In reply to this post by Ron Ritzman
"Ron Ritzman" wrote

> The same could be asked about notability. Just what makes one suspect
> that a particular person/band/school/company/webcomic etc. is not
> notable?

There are fairly clearly several paths. For example, click 'Random Article' until you find something that annoys you, and then tag it. Searchinge the whole site for some less-usual word or phrase will turn up 'neglected' pages at the far end of the search. There is probably too much personal animus in PROD and CSD A7 now, in some cases.

Charles

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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Steve Bennett-8
In reply to this post by David Ashby
On 12/28/06, David Ashby <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Random button.

I use this one a lot.

Steve
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Luna-4
In reply to this post by Charles Matthews
Don't forget the various cleanup categories -- tags like {{wikify}} and
{{notability}} don't lead to immediate deletion, but will eventually draw
the attention of experienced editors who may decide to nominate a given
article for deletion.

When I nom things for deletion, it's usually in the course of my "normal
duties" -- I'll find them cleaning up after vandals, while trying to sort
categories, or clean up articles in general. Things like that.

And there is always [[Special:Random]], but I try to stay away from using
that too often.

-Luna
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Ron Ritzman
On 12/28/06, Luna <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don't forget the various cleanup categories -- tags like {{wikify}} and
> {{notability}} don't lead to immediate deletion, but will eventually draw
> the attention of experienced editors who may decide to nominate a given
> article for deletion.

Still, it must take a lot of time to do the research necessary to
determine "deletability". Therefore, with the exception of obvious BS,
you would still have to see something in the article that prompts you
to stop and do such research. The "prod" tag probably saves time in
this respect. The only disadvantage with this is that it may cause
good but inactive articles to get deleted simply because nobody
removes an improperly added prod. That's why a "prod patrol" would be
a good idea if there already isn't one.

> And there is always [[Special:Random]], but I try to stay away from using
> that too often.

I,m sure that a common vision of "antideletionists" is of this geek
with no life sitting around all day pressing the random button looking
for deletable articles similar to the image of the antispammer sitting
in front of his PC waiting for spam to come in so he can complain
about it. (now of days he doesn't have to wait long :(
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

David Gerard-2
On 28/12/06, Ron Ritzman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The "prod" tag probably saves time in
> this respect. The only disadvantage with this is that it may cause
> good but inactive articles to get deleted simply because nobody
> removes an improperly added prod. That's why a "prod patrol" would be
> a good idea if there already isn't one.


This is easy and possible; the interested can always do so.

Thankfully, the process of undeleting a PROD is as lightweight as
placing a PROD - that is, an admin can Just Undelete. (Presumably an
editor would then want to improve the article so people wouldn't want
to PROD it again.)


> I,m sure that a common vision of "antideletionists" is of this geek
> with no life sitting around all day pressing the random button looking
> for deletable articles similar to the image of the antispammer sitting
> in front of his PC waiting for spam to come in so he can complain
> about it. (now of days he doesn't have to wait long :(


Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages
patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!


- d.
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

David Ashby
> Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages
> patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!

Tangent: so the banning of IP article creation has totally failed in
its stated goal, namely to cut back on the "FIREHOSE OF CRAP"?

Interesting.  Perhaps it's time for a re-examination of that policy.

-David
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

David Gerard-2
On 28/12/06, David Ashby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages
> > patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!

> Tangent: so the banning of IP article creation has totally failed in
> its stated goal, namely to cut back on the "FIREHOSE OF CRAP"?
> Interesting.  Perhaps it's time for a re-examination of that policy.


I would suggest so. Hopefully we should get the numbers after the
current fundraiser season is through.


- d.
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Guy Chapman aka JzG
In reply to this post by David Ashby
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:24:39 -0700, "David Ashby"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>Tangent: so the banning of IP article creation has totally failed in
>its stated goal, namely to cut back on the "FIREHOSE OF CRAP"?

No, it's reduced it quite noticeably.  If you have to register a new
account and wait four days after your vanity article is deleted it
really can hold you up.  At least one individual has recently stated
that he'll take his vanity page to MySpace because it's miles better
(which, of course, it is, for vanity pages).

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG

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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Charles Matthews
In reply to this post by Ron Ritzman
 "David Ashby" <x

> Tangent: so the banning of IP article creation has totally failed in
> its stated goal, namely to cut back on the "FIREHOSE OF CRAP"?
>
> Interesting.  Perhaps it's time for a re-examination of that policy.

Well, it is somehow logically possible that if IP number editors could create new articles, there would be no more bad articles created than now. On the other hand, it is more plausible that there would be even more. What do you think? Two or three times more? The restriction is in line with the 'soft security' policy/style, which is to have multiple filters each of which has some effect.

Charles

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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Matthew Britton-2
In reply to this post by David Ashby
David Ashby wrote:
>> Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages
>> patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!
>
> Tangent: so the banning of IP article creation has totally failed in
> its stated goal, namely to cut back on the "FIREHOSE OF CRAP"?
>
> Interesting.  Perhaps it's time for a re-examination of that policy.
>
> -David

The banning of article creation by anonymous users significantly reduced
the number of junk articles being created. Back then I was one of the
people tagging, not deleting, but I remember the decision.

But that was over a year ago. Wikipedia has grown quite a lot in that
time, and has become far, far more popular with people seeking to use
Wikipedia for promotional purposes. It wouldn't surprise me at all if
the rate at which unsuitable articles are being created now far exceeds
the rate at which they were being created a year ago.

I fail to see your point, however. Allowing anonymous users to create
articles again would result in yet more unsuitable articles. How does
that help anything?

-Gurch
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

MacGyverMagic/Mgm
In reply to this post by Ron Ritzman
On 12/28/06, Ron Ritzman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I understand that new articles get close scrutiny but just how do
> deletable articles that have been around for a while come to the
> attention to those who regularly nominate articles for deletion?
> (especially if the article is otherwise well written)
>
> I ask this because recently I came across a fairly well written
> article about a computer term that had a prod tag on it for being an
> unsourced neologism. It probably was since all the google hits for it
> pointed to mirrors of its WP article but I still decided to replace
> the prod with a sources tag to give the original author a chance to
> add a source. However, I started to wonder why the person who first
> prodded it suspected it was a neologism as it couldn't have been the
> first term he ran across on wikipedia that he never heard about. Does
> he prod them all?


 If all the Google hits point to mirrors the article in question isn't
verifiable.
Even if they haven't heard about the term, they appear to have made an
effort to find evidence it exists.
A computer term that lacks Google hits probably lacks notability too.

The same could be asked about notability. Just what makes one suspect
> that a particular person/band/school/company/webcomic etc. is not
> notable? Please note that I am not saying that such articles should be
> kept but there has to be something in an otherwise well written
> article to cause someone to investigate the article's eligibility to
> be in wikipedia besides "I've never heard if him/it"


Lack of establishing notability according to the different notability
criteria at [[WP:BIO]], [[WP:MUSIC]], etc would be a reason to investigate
it further. A lot of people don't even mention what makes an article subject
worth being written about.

Mgm
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Ilmari Karonen
In reply to this post by Ron Ritzman
Ron Ritzman wrote:
> I understand that new articles get close scrutiny but just how do
> deletable articles that have been around for a while come to the
> attention to those who regularly nominate articles for deletion?

I don't know if I qualify for "regularly", or for "deletionist", but I
did recently nominate [[Forss Fagerström]], which had been around since
April.  How did I find it?  Well, someone copied it over to the Finnish
Wikipedia, someone else there noticed it and nominated it for deletion,
and a user (one of the few) opposing its deletion there commented that
it shouldn't be deleted since the topic already exists on the English
Wikipedia.

Yes, nominating the English article for deletion at that point is
definitely a Nasty Deletionist Trick(TM).  Then again, the article is
utterly unencyclopedic, even if it _is_ actually fairly well written.

--
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Ron Ritzman
In reply to this post by MacGyverMagic/Mgm
On 12/28/06, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Lack of establishing notability according to the different notability
> criteria at [[WP:BIO]], [[WP:MUSIC]], etc would be a reason to investigate
> it further. A lot of people don't even mention what makes an article subject
> worth being written about.

I would think that this one would be easy as not even going through
the motions of establishing notability is grounds for speedy. Come to
think of it I wonder if this has ever happened...

Someone writes an article about "Joe Shmoe".

Same someone fails to assert notability.

Article gets speedy deleted.

It turns out that "Joe Shmoe" actually is notable, just unknown to
those who speedied it.
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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
In reply to this post by Ron Ritzman
Ron Ritzman wrote:

> On 12/28/06, Luna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Don't forget the various cleanup categories -- tags like {{wikify}} and
>> {{notability}} don't lead to immediate deletion, but will eventually draw
>> the attention of experienced editors who may decide to nominate a given
>> article for deletion.
>
> Still, it must take a lot of time to do the research necessary to
> determine "deletability". Therefore, with the exception of obvious BS,
> you would still have to see something in the article that prompts you
> to stop and do such research. The "prod" tag probably saves time in
> this respect. The only disadvantage with this is that it may cause
> good but inactive articles to get deleted simply because nobody
> removes an improperly added prod. That's why a "prod patrol" would be
> a good idea if there already isn't one.
>
>> And there is always [[Special:Random]], but I try to stay away from using
>> that too often.
>
> I,m sure that a common vision of "antideletionists" is of this geek
> with no life sitting around all day pressing the random button looking
> for deletable articles similar to the image of the antispammer sitting
> in front of his PC waiting for spam to come in so he can complain
> about it. (now of days he doesn't have to wait long :(
>
I will write a script that will randomly delete pages (ie. hit
[[Special:Random]], make a random choice, and delete the page if true);
how much will you pay me for it?

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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
In reply to this post by Ron Ritzman
Ron Ritzman wrote:

> On 12/28/06, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Lack of establishing notability according to the different notability
>> criteria at [[WP:BIO]], [[WP:MUSIC]], etc would be a reason to investigate
>> it further. A lot of people don't even mention what makes an article subject
>> worth being written about.
>
> I would think that this one would be easy as not even going through
> the motions of establishing notability is grounds for speedy. Come to
> think of it I wonder if this has ever happened...
>
> Someone writes an article about "Joe Shmoe".
>
> Same someone fails to assert notability.
>
> Article gets speedy deleted.
>
> It turns out that "Joe Shmoe" actually is notable, just unknown to
> those who speedied it.
>
Reminds me of the article that Jimbo wrote which was speedied because
the content was "He won the Nobel prize!"...

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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

Steve Block-3
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
David Gerard wrote:

> Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages
> patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!
>

I think anyone who uses a speedy tag should have to do an hour of this.
  Might make people realise what the speedy tags really are for.


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Re: How do "deletionists" find articles to delete?

David Gerard-2
On 29/12/06, Steve Block <[hidden email]> wrote:
> David Gerard wrote:

> > Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages
> > patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!

> I think anyone who uses a speedy tag should have to do an hour of this.
>   Might make people realise what the speedy tags really are for.


I think the problem is that, doing their level best in good faith to
deal with the FIREHOSE OF CRAP, they get punch-drunk from repeatedly
being hit over the head with the sum total of human stupidity and
eventually scream "AIEEEE IT'S ALL CRAAAAP KILL IT ALL KILL IT WITH A
STICK!!!"

Which is probably not good.

So A7 needs to be much less grey-area that it appears to be in
practice. This will reduce stress for all.


- d.
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