How is Wikidata CC0?

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How is Wikidata CC0?

The Cunctator
If it's pulling from Wikipedia (CC-BY-SA) what is the justification for
converting the license to CC0?
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Re: How is Wikidata CC0?

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
You are wrong. When you read an article and morf it into a Wikipedia
article, you do not have to maintain the copyright of the original. The
same applies to Wikidata. Also what do you call Wikipedia? Wikidata
contains much more than just Wikipedia particularly English Wikipedia.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 18 June 2018 at 03:46, The Cunctator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If it's pulling from Wikipedia (CC-BY-SA) what is the justification for
> converting the license to CC0?
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Re: How is Wikidata CC0?

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by The Cunctator
Ave Cunctator.

The Cunctator, 18/06/2018 04:46:
> If it's pulling from Wikipedia (CC-BY-SA)

It's not, in the sense that it's not getting any copyrightable bits from it.

A relevant document is
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikilegal/Database_Rights>.

Then just few days ago there was an exhausting discussion in various
mailing lists and <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728>.

Federico

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Re: How is Wikidata CC0?

The Cunctator
It looks from that discussion that the violations of cc-by-sa in order to
help google's profits have not been in any way resolved.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 1:56 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Ave Cunctator.
>
> The Cunctator, 18/06/2018 04:46:
> > If it's pulling from Wikipedia (CC-BY-SA)
>
> It's not, in the sense that it's not getting any copyrightable bits from
> it.
>
> A relevant document is
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikilegal/Database_Rights>.
>
> Then just few days ago there was an exhausting discussion in various
> mailing lists and <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728>.
>
> Federico
>
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Re: How is Wikidata CC0?

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
That is one argument that has nothing to do with copyright. Google may use
our content as long as it complies with the license. In addition to this,
our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge. Arguably when Google pays
for the distribution, it saves us money.. Your logic has us pay Google for
helping us achieve our aims.

In addition, this has nothing to do with Wikidata.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 18 June 2018 at 15:18, The Cunctator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It looks from that discussion that the violations of cc-by-sa in order to
> help google's profits have not been in any way resolved.
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 1:56 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Ave Cunctator.
> >
> > The Cunctator, 18/06/2018 04:46:
> > > If it's pulling from Wikipedia (CC-BY-SA)
> >
> > It's not, in the sense that it's not getting any copyrightable bits from
> > it.
> >
> > A relevant document is
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikilegal/Database_Rights>.
> >
> > Then just few days ago there was an exhausting discussion in various
> > mailing lists and <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728>.
> >
> > Federico
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
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Re: How is Wikidata CC0?

The Cunctator
Your claims that the abusive destruction of copyleft by the Wikidata
project have nothing to do with copyright and nothing to do with Wikidata
don't make any sense.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> Hoi,
> That is one argument that has nothing to do with copyright. Google may use
> our content as long as it complies with the license. In addition to this,
> our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge. Arguably when Google pays
> for the distribution, it saves us money.. Your logic has us pay Google for
> helping us achieve our aims.
>
> In addition, this has nothing to do with Wikidata.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On 18 June 2018 at 15:18, The Cunctator <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > It looks from that discussion that the violations of cc-by-sa in order to
> > help google's profits have not been in any way resolved.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 1:56 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Ave Cunctator.
> > >
> > > The Cunctator, 18/06/2018 04:46:
> > > > If it's pulling from Wikipedia (CC-BY-SA)
> > >
> > > It's not, in the sense that it's not getting any copyrightable bits
> from
> > > it.
> > >
> > > A relevant document is
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikilegal/Database_Rights>.
> > >
> > > Then just few days ago there was an exhausting discussion in various
> > > mailing lists and <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728>.
> > >
> > > Federico
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
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Re: How is Wikidata CC0?

The Cunctator
Is there a coherent explanation of what content Wikidata is extracting from
CC-BY-SA projects?

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:55 AM, The Cunctator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Your claims that the abusive destruction of copyleft by the Wikidata
> project have nothing to do with copyright and nothing to do with Wikidata
> don't make any sense.
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Gerard Meijssen <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hoi,
>> That is one argument that has nothing to do with copyright. Google may use
>> our content as long as it complies with the license. In addition to this,
>> our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge. Arguably when Google pays
>> for the distribution, it saves us money.. Your logic has us pay Google for
>> helping us achieve our aims.
>>
>> In addition, this has nothing to do with Wikidata.
>> Thanks,
>>       GerardM
>>
>> On 18 June 2018 at 15:18, The Cunctator <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > It looks from that discussion that the violations of cc-by-sa in order
>> to
>> > help google's profits have not been in any way resolved.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 1:56 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Ave Cunctator.
>> > >
>> > > The Cunctator, 18/06/2018 04:46:
>> > > > If it's pulling from Wikipedia (CC-BY-SA)
>> > >
>> > > It's not, in the sense that it's not getting any copyrightable bits
>> from
>> > > it.
>> > >
>> > > A relevant document is
>> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikilegal/Database_Rights>.
>> > >
>> > > Then just few days ago there was an exhausting discussion in various
>> > > mailing lists and <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728>.
>> > >
>> > > Federico
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>
>
>
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Re: How is Wikidata CC0?

Federico Leva (Nemo)
The Cunctator, 18/06/2018 17:57:
> Is there a coherent explanation of what content Wikidata is extracting from
> CC-BY-SA projects?

Not really, because it's a very distributed and long-running process
(which is very very far from completion). But there are some relevant
examples explained in some publications.
https://eprints.soton.ac.uk/412922/1/opensym_wd_vs_wp_2_.pdf
https://eprints.soton.ac.uk/413433/1/Open_Sym_Short_Paper_Wikidata_Multilingual.pdf
http://oadoi.org/10.1145/2872427.2874809

> Your claims that the abusive destruction of copyleft by the Wikidata
> project have nothing to do with copyright and nothing to do with Wikidata
> don't make any sense.
By "abusive destruction of copyleft" do you mean the practice of
mirroring Wikipedia articles, or snippets thereof, without really
complying with the copyleft licenses?

The first large scale example (which went way beyond the usual rogue
mirrors) was probably Facebook with "community pages" in 2010.
<https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2010-April/104232.html>

At the time, the Wikimedia Foundation attempted to get them include a
visible reference to CC-BY-SA, links from which the history and edit
buttons would be visible, and so on. Some considered the result
acceptable, some didn't. But many said there was no way to enforce
something else.

Free riders are a common and well-studied issue of copyleft projects.
The countermeasure is generally some kind of copyleft compliance
syndicate, like
https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/principles.html

Federico

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Re: How is Wikidata CC0?

metasj
I assume Cunctator (hello!) means he sees extraction of facts /
relationships from CC-SA articles, and claiming those facts are CC-0, hurts
copyleft.

I don't see copyright/left as applying to individual facts or data; so I
don't think this is a legal issue; but the social and practical questions
are relevant. [how do we set expectations? as it becomes easier to
decompose narratives and texts into constellations of facts, what's the
impact on (c) / (ↄ), &c.]


On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:27 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> The Cunctator, 18/06/2018 17:57:
> > Is there a coherent explanation of what content Wikidata is extracting
> from
> > CC-BY-SA projects?
>
> Not really, because it's a very distributed and long-running process
> (which is very very far from completion). But there are some relevant
> examples explained in some publications.
> https://eprints.soton.ac.uk/412922/1/opensym_wd_vs_wp_2_.pdf
>
> https://eprints.soton.ac.uk/413433/1/Open_Sym_Short_Paper_Wikidata_Multilingual.pdf
> http://oadoi.org/10.1145/2872427.2874809
>
> > Your claims that the abusive destruction of copyleft by the Wikidata
> > project have nothing to do with copyright and nothing to do with Wikidata
> > don't make any sense.
> By "abusive destruction of copyleft" do you mean the practice of
> mirroring Wikipedia articles, or snippets thereof, without really
> complying with the copyleft licenses?
>
> The first large scale example (which went way beyond the usual rogue
> mirrors) was probably Facebook with "community pages" in 2010.
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2010-April/104232.html>
>
> At the time, the Wikimedia Foundation attempted to get them include a
> visible reference to CC-BY-SA, links from which the history and edit
> buttons would be visible, and so on. Some considered the result
> acceptable, some didn't. But many said there was no way to enforce
> something else.
>
> Free riders are a common and well-studied issue of copyleft projects.
> The countermeasure is generally some kind of copyleft compliance
> syndicate, like
> https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/principles.html
>
> Federico
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


--
Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
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