How to reply to a mailing list thread

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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Anthony-73
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Svip <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A: Because it ruins the way people read.
> Q: Why is topposting bad?
>

Is bottom posting any better?

> Is bottom posting any better?
No, not really.

>> Is bottom posting any better?
> No, not really.
Why not?

>>> Is bottom posting any better?
>> No, not really.
>Why not?
Because it too ruins the way people read.

---

Top posting, bottom posting, whatever.  It really doesn't make a whole lot
of difference.  What sucks is when one person bottom posts and the other one
top posts.
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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Anthony-73
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:16 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You're suggesting using a specific, proprietary
> client (that has all sorts of privacy issues) in order to combat what is,
> at
> its core, laziness.
>

Every great software application has, at its core, laziness.
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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Everton Zanella Alvarenga-2
Hi,

I prefer to write emails following rules similar to what MZMcBride
pointed at the beginning of this topic, mainly because it is how I
like to read other people emails - tho unfortunately a few people do
so. I use gmail, because I like its features and I don't care about
privacy issues, but I believe people should have the choise to worry
about this, i. e., people should be allowed to not use *a* specific
client.

There are places where Internet access is very expensive, mainly poor
countries. [1] Fortunately, even paying too much for Internet access,
as compared to (the so called) developed countries, I can easily
follow these discussions.  But I know there are (a *lot* of) people
who cannot (a few years a go I couldn't). Then, in my humble opinion,
a minimum effort could make possible more people to have access to
discussions at WMF mainling list.

Unless most of us already have a well formed opinion on the
uselfulness of most discussions held here.

Hugs,

Tom

[1] Are poor countries subsidizing the rich?

http://www.itu.int/itunews/manager/display.asp?lang=en&year=2005&issue=03&ipage=interconnectiv-poor&ext=html

(A few research can show more data and comparisons on that.)

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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Domas Mituzas
In reply to this post by mike.lifeguard

yup, especially John Doe!

On Mar 31, 2010, at 2:34 AM, Mike.lifeguard wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 37-01--10 03:59 PM, John Doe wrote:
>> I agree top posting tends to be the most effective method for handling
>> mailing lists
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Gerard Meijssen
>> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>> The easiest way to deal with such issues is use a decent mail client.
>
> Hi guys. Please consider that the two of you might be in the group that
> should be checking that page. Top-posting isn't the best way, and
> relying upon Gmail to handle things is definitely not the best way.
>
> Instead of blindly assuming what you already do is ideal, please be open
> to the suggestion that it isn't.
>
> Thanks,
> - -Mike
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> _______________________________________________
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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Teun Spaans
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:41 AM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >>Hello --
>
> >>Some of the people posting to this mailing list don't seem to understand
> how
> to write a decent, readable reply to a mailing list thread.

 Yes, but the opinion on what makes a readable reply may differ from person
to person.

>>This makes for far more noise than signal,

True


> >>as people wade through six copies of the
> foundation-l footer

 Footers should of course be kept brief and to the point, else they become
irritating.. Our current footer can probably be reduced to 1 or 2 lines.

>>or eight old and irrelevant replies trying to find the
> content of the reply to the previous message.
>
> Good practice imho is to leave only the previous text, but delete all text
before the previous message.
This is easiest when people use top-line posting. But I must confess that I
have not always done that in the past.


> >>The Toolserver wiki has a fantastic page that explains how to reply to a
>
>>mailing list thread the Right Way.[1] If you suspect you've been Doing It
>
>>Wrong, please have a read.
>
See my reply further down.

>
> >>Thanks!
>
> >>MZMcBride
>
> >>[1] https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
> Thank you for providing the link. I think this policy must be discussed, as
> many people will prefer top-line posting, as shown by its popularity on this
> mailing list.. Inline posting, as demonstrated by this reply, may well
> obscure the orginal message.
>
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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Anthony-73
Was that supposed to be an example of a terrible use of inline posting?  If
so, ha, great job, I couldn't even figure out what was written by you and
what was written by Mr. McBride.

BTW, this is supposed to be an example of a good use of top posting.

But in the end, you're just not going to forcibly change the posting habits
of others, so I've found it best to just learn to deal with them.  Or ignore
them depending on how bad it is.  This post below, I've pretty much ignored
because it wasn't worth trying to sort through who said what.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 5:58 AM, teun spaans <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:41 AM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > >>Hello --
> >
> > >>Some of the people posting to this mailing list don't seem to
> understand
> > how
> > to write a decent, readable reply to a mailing list thread.
>
>  Yes, but the opinion on what makes a readable reply may differ from person
> to person.
>
> >>This makes for far more noise than signal,
>
> True
>
>
> > >>as people wade through six copies of the
> > foundation-l footer
>
>  Footers should of course be kept brief and to the point, else they become
> irritating.. Our current footer can probably be reduced to 1 or 2 lines.
>
> >>or eight old and irrelevant replies trying to find the
> > content of the reply to the previous message.
> >
> > Good practice imho is to leave only the previous text, but delete all
> text
> before the previous message.
> This is easiest when people use top-line posting. But I must confess that I
> have not always done that in the past.
>
>
> > >>The Toolserver wiki has a fantastic page that explains how to reply to
> a
> >
> >>mailing list thread the Right Way.[1] If you suspect you've been Doing It
> >
> >>Wrong, please have a read.
> >
> See my reply further down.
>
> >
> > >>Thanks!
> >
> > >>MZMcBride
> >
> > >>[1] https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
> > Thank you for providing the link. I think this policy must be discussed,
> as
> > many people will prefer top-line posting, as shown by its popularity on
> this
> > mailing list.. Inline posting, as demonstrated by this reply, may well
> > obscure the orginal message.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Stephen Bain
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Anthony <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This post below, I've pretty much ignored
> because it wasn't worth trying to sort through who said what.

Yet instead of deleting it, you included the whole thing.

--
Stephen Bain
[hidden email]

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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Svip
On 31 March 2010 14:43, Stephen Bain <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Anthony <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> This post below, I've pretty much ignored
>> because it wasn't worth trying to sort through who said what.
>
> Yet instead of deleting it, you included the whole thing.

I am still uncertain whether his comment that it was an example of a
'good toppost' was a joke, because I am getting that feeling.

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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Katie Chan
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
MZMcBride wrote:
> This makes for far more noise than signal, as people wade through six copies of the
> foundation-l footer or eight old and irrelevant replies trying to find the
> content of the reply to the previous message.

I've pretty much be ignoring this thread, and mark everything as read on
arrival. However I'll just like to point out that this attempt to
increase signal to noise have now resulted in at present count 29 (yes
including mine) pretty much pointless emails...

KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
     - Heinrich Heine

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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Anthony-73
In reply to this post by Stephen Bain
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Stephen Bain <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Anthony <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > This post below, I've pretty much ignored
> > because it wasn't worth trying to sort through who said what.
>
> Yet instead of deleting it, you included the whole thing.
>

Correct.  It wasn't worth reading, but it was useful as an example of
something that isn't worth reading.

Yeah, it sucks for people reading their mail with a 2400 bps modem, but I
don't think everyone else should have to suffer through ambiguous messages
for the sake of those few.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Svip <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am still uncertain whether his comment that it was an example of a
> 'good toppost' was a joke, because I am getting that feeling.
>

No, wasn't a joke.  Sometimes topposting is good.  Specifically, when you
are replying to a message in its entirety, and not any particular part of
it.  This was an example.
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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Anthony-73
In reply to this post by Katie Chan
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Kwan Ting Chan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> MZMcBride wrote:
>
>> This makes for far more noise than signal, as people wade through six
>> copies of the
>> foundation-l footer or eight old and irrelevant replies trying to find the
>> content of the reply to the previous message.
>>
>
> I've pretty much be ignoring this thread, and mark everything as read on
> arrival. However I'll just like to point out that this attempt to increase
> signal to noise have now resulted in at present count 29 (yes including
> mine) pretty much pointless emails...
>
> KTC
>

It's the end of the month and we've got a quota to fill.
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Re: How to reply to a mailing list thread

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by Anthony-73
Anthony wrote:
> MZMcBride wrote:
>  
>> You're suggesting using a specific, proprietary
>> client (that has all sorts of privacy issues) in order to combat what is,
>> at its core, laziness.
>>    
> Every great software application has, at its core, laziness.


Indeed!  Or perhaps that might be better applied whenever a solution to
a problem depends mostly on software, or on the use of a convenient
acronym. It is for the writer's convenience that he uses two letters
when two words would make things more clear.  The writer's time saved in
typing fewer characters is trivial in comparison to the combined time
spent by many readers trying to decipher the acronym.  In a tanglement
of templates and transclusions lurks a lazy solution. Shortcutting a
solution deprives the user of the understanding that made that solution
effective.

Ec

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