IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

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IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

esthon
Hello,

I would like to know if there is any work to have DB2 supported by Mediawiki.
Also if there isn't, if I could start a project to create this support, I mean
if this is possible and/or desirable.

Thanks and best regards,
Esthon Medeiros.


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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Aryeh Gregor
On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Esthon Medeiros <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would like to know if there is any work to have DB2 supported by Mediawiki.
> Also if there isn't, if I could start a project to create this support, I mean
> if this is possible and/or desirable.

If you want support, submit a patch.  Look in Database.php and various
subclasses, like DatabasePostgres.php.  These are in includes/db/ in
current trunk.  Write up a DatabaseDB2.php and submit it on Bugzilla
or somewhere.  Changes also might be needed to the installer script to
give it as an installation option.

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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Brion Vibber-3
Simetrical wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Esthon Medeiros <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I would like to know if there is any work to have DB2 supported by Mediawiki.
>> Also if there isn't, if I could start a project to create this support, I mean
>> if this is possible and/or desirable.
>
> If you want support, submit a patch.  Look in Database.php and various
> subclasses, like DatabasePostgres.php.  These are in includes/db/ in
> current trunk.  Write up a DatabaseDB2.php and submit it on Bugzilla
> or somewhere.  Changes also might be needed to the installer script to
> give it as an installation option.

Indeed, good luck implementing it. :)

But I will warn you -- it'll save you a *lot* of trouble to just install
a copy of MySQL. It'll actually *work* instead of spending months
discovering new compatibility problems every time you try a new feature
or upgrade.

-- brion

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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

esthon
Brion Vibber escreveu:

> Simetrical wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Esthon Medeiros <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I would like to know if there is any work to have DB2 supported by Mediawiki.
>>> Also if there isn't, if I could start a project to create this support, I mean
>>> if this is possible and/or desirable.
>> If you want support, submit a patch.  Look in Database.php and various
>> subclasses, like DatabasePostgres.php.  These are in includes/db/ in
>> current trunk.  Write up a DatabaseDB2.php and submit it on Bugzilla
>> or somewhere.  Changes also might be needed to the installer script to
>> give it as an installation option.
>
> Indeed, good luck implementing it. :)
>
> But I will warn you -- it'll save you a *lot* of trouble to just install
> a copy of MySQL. It'll actually *work* instead of spending months
> discovering new compatibility problems every time you try a new feature
> or upgrade.
>
> -- brion

Hi Brion,

you're right, if it was only for my use and I already installed it with
mysql and it was very fast to install and begin to use, excellent
application. But, my suggestion is to create more compatibility for the
product, I can see in this table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software that few have
DB2 support, so if it is not very complex I would like to work with it.

If more people like the idea and wish to join me in this effort please
let me know.

Esthon Medeiros.


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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Chad
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Esthon Medeiros <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brion Vibber escreveu:
>> Simetrical wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Esthon Medeiros <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I would like to know if there is any work to have DB2 supported by Mediawiki.
>>>> Also if there isn't, if I could start a project to create this support, I mean
>>>> if this is possible and/or desirable.
>>> If you want support, submit a patch.  Look in Database.php and various
>>> subclasses, like DatabasePostgres.php.  These are in includes/db/ in
>>> current trunk.  Write up a DatabaseDB2.php and submit it on Bugzilla
>>> or somewhere.  Changes also might be needed to the installer script to
>>> give it as an installation option.
>>
>> Indeed, good luck implementing it. :)
>>
>> But I will warn you -- it'll save you a *lot* of trouble to just install
>> a copy of MySQL. It'll actually *work* instead of spending months
>> discovering new compatibility problems every time you try a new feature
>> or upgrade.
>>
>> -- brion
>
> Hi Brion,
>
> you're right, if it was only for my use and I already installed it with
> mysql and it was very fast to install and begin to use, excellent
> application. But, my suggestion is to create more compatibility for the
> product, I can see in this table
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software that few have
> DB2 support, so if it is not very complex I would like to work with it.
>
> If more people like the idea and wish to join me in this effort please
> let me know.
>
> Esthon Medeiros.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

I know Aran was working on a MSSQL class recently. Might be worth
your time to ask him what issues he's hit/overcome while trying to
implement that.

-Chad

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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Danny Joe Bauch
I have had Mediawiki running on Microsoft SQL Server pretty much without any
problems for several months now, originally on SQL Server 2000, but now on
2005. This week the boss decided it was time to move it from our development
box to a production server. The version I'm running is based on release
1.12, but includes quite a bit from the 1.13 code as well. That includes
several extensions. I'd love to have my stuff rolled in to the shared
source. The only significant change that impacts quite a few of the PHP
sources (primarily the Special... stuff) is that I had to add a couple of
methods to the Database class to switch back and forth between returning
query results in arrays (which works most of the time) and returning query
results in objects with fields accessed by name. For performance reasons,
the ADODB class that I used only does one or the other. Brion -- if you're
still following this thread, tell me what it takes to get my stuff rolled
in.

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Esthon Medeiros <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Brion Vibber escreveu:
> >> Simetrical wrote:
> >>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Esthon Medeiros <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>> I would like to know if there is any work to have DB2 supported by
> Mediawiki.
> >>>> Also if there isn't, if I could start a project to create this
> support, I mean
> >>>> if this is possible and/or desirable.
> >>> If you want support, submit a patch.  Look in Database.php and various
> >>> subclasses, like DatabasePostgres.php.  These are in includes/db/ in
> >>> current trunk.  Write up a DatabaseDB2.php and submit it on Bugzilla
> >>> or somewhere.  Changes also might be needed to the installer script to
> >>> give it as an installation option.
> >>
> >> Indeed, good luck implementing it. :)
> >>
> >> But I will warn you -- it'll save you a *lot* of trouble to just install
> >> a copy of MySQL. It'll actually *work* instead of spending months
> >> discovering new compatibility problems every time you try a new feature
> >> or upgrade.
> >>
> >> -- brion
> >
> > Hi Brion,
> >
> > you're right, if it was only for my use and I already installed it with
> > mysql and it was very fast to install and begin to use, excellent
> > application. But, my suggestion is to create more compatibility for the
> > product, I can see in this table
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software that few have
> > DB2 support, so if it is not very complex I would like to work with it.
> >
> > If more people like the idea and wish to join me in this effort please
> > let me know.
> >
> > Esthon Medeiros.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
> I know Aran was working on a MSSQL class recently. Might be worth
> your time to ask him what issues he's hit/overcome while trying to
> implement that.
>
> -Chad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Brion Vibber-3
DJ Bauch wrote:

> I have had Mediawiki running on Microsoft SQL Server pretty much without any
> problems for several months now, originally on SQL Server 2000, but now on
> 2005. This week the boss decided it was time to move it from our development
> box to a production server. The version I'm running is based on release
> 1.12, but includes quite a bit from the 1.13 code as well. That includes
> several extensions. I'd love to have my stuff rolled in to the shared
> source. The only significant change that impacts quite a few of the PHP
> sources (primarily the Special... stuff) is that I had to add a couple of
> methods to the Database class to switch back and forth between returning
> query results in arrays (which works most of the time) and returning query
> results in objects with fields accessed by name. For performance reasons,
> the ADODB class that I used only does one or the other.

It sounds like the best way to handle this would be for fetchObject() /
fetchRow() to translate formats, rather than change all other code.

The current DatabaseMssql.php seems to be using mssql_fetch_object() and
mssql_fetch_array() already; is there any problem with how this works
presently?

-- brion

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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Danny Joe Bauch
The issue arose because I used the  ADOdb Database Abstraction Library for
PHP and Python (from adodb.sourceforge.net). Early attempts to use the PHP
mssql connector just resulted in disappointment, particularly in the
handling of BLOBs, if I recall. I have thought about attacking MSSQL again,
just so I can see if I have better luck now that I'm a PHP version or two
ahead of where I was the last time I tried it. Since I already had lots of
experience with ADO, I found the other adapter to be quite easy to use.

I misremembered the frequency of the issue with most of the special pages.
The thing that tends to cause more changes there tends to be the GROUP BY
clauses in the SQL. SQL Server doesn't like GROUP BY 1,2,3... Line 44 in
SpecialWantedcategories.php, for example, I changed from "GROUP BY 1,2,3" to
"GROUP BY cl_to", cl_to being the only column that changes. Similarly, line
38 in SpecialFewestRevisions.php I changed from "GROUP BY 1,2,3" to "GROUP
BY page_namespace,page_title". I don't think these changes alter the
semantics of the result.

SpecialStatistics.php, however, demonstrates the issue I identified with the
result retrieval mode. In that file, I have at line 58
"$dbr->SetFetchModeAssoc()", followed by the query "$res =
$dbr->select(...", which goes on for several lines -- then at line 75, I
have "$dbr->SetFetchModeNum()" to go back to the default fetch mode. The
issue is that ADO wants the fetch mode set at the time of the query, not at
the time you actually start to retrieve the results of the query. For ADO,
that is too late!

As I said, this only shows up in a few places in the code. For the most
part, Mediawiki retrieves the results using numeric field identifiers.

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]> wrote:

> DJ Bauch wrote:
> > I have had Mediawiki running on Microsoft SQL Server pretty much without
> any
> > problems for several months now, originally on SQL Server 2000, but now
> on
> > 2005. This week the boss decided it was time to move it from our
> development
> > box to a production server. The version I'm running is based on release
> > 1.12, but includes quite a bit from the 1.13 code as well. That includes
> > several extensions. I'd love to have my stuff rolled in to the shared
> > source. The only significant change that impacts quite a few of the PHP
> > sources (primarily the Special... stuff) is that I had to add a couple of
> > methods to the Database class to switch back and forth between returning
> > query results in arrays (which works most of the time) and returning
> query
> > results in objects with fields accessed by name. For performance reasons,
> > the ADODB class that I used only does one or the other.
>
> It sounds like the best way to handle this would be for fetchObject() /
> fetchRow() to translate formats, rather than change all other code.
>
> The current DatabaseMssql.php seems to be using mssql_fetch_object() and
> mssql_fetch_array() already; is there any problem with how this works
> presently?
>
> -- brion
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Aran Dunkley
There are some difficulties with getting the current implementation of
MSSQL support to work without adjusting code outside the class.

For example the problems in the special pages DJ Bauch mentioned is due
to the GROUP BY being part of a fully constructed SQL string rather than
a DB::selectJoin method or something instead. The GROUP BY would then be
part of an option array so it could be modified in the MSSQL
implmentation of that method.

Also another issue is that MSSQL doesn't like inserts on auto-increment
rows which are declared as NOT NULL but then are inserted with NULL's.
MySQL ignores the NULL since its an auto-increment row and so not
actually inserted. But MSSQL doesn't like it so it may be good to change
such NULL's to 0 or "" or whatever type is appropriate, or not include
those columns at all in the inserts.

DJ Bauch wrote:

> The issue arose because I used the  ADOdb Database Abstraction Library for
> PHP and Python (from adodb.sourceforge.net). Early attempts to use the PHP
> mssql connector just resulted in disappointment, particularly in the
> handling of BLOBs, if I recall. I have thought about attacking MSSQL again,
> just so I can see if I have better luck now that I'm a PHP version or two
> ahead of where I was the last time I tried it. Since I already had lots of
> experience with ADO, I found the other adapter to be quite easy to use.
>
> I misremembered the frequency of the issue with most of the special pages.
> The thing that tends to cause more changes there tends to be the GROUP BY
> clauses in the SQL. SQL Server doesn't like GROUP BY 1,2,3... Line 44 in
> SpecialWantedcategories.php, for example, I changed from "GROUP BY 1,2,3" to
> "GROUP BY cl_to", cl_to being the only column that changes. Similarly, line
> 38 in SpecialFewestRevisions.php I changed from "GROUP BY 1,2,3" to "GROUP
> BY page_namespace,page_title". I don't think these changes alter the
> semantics of the result.
>
> SpecialStatistics.php, however, demonstrates the issue I identified with the
> result retrieval mode. In that file, I have at line 58
> "$dbr->SetFetchModeAssoc()", followed by the query "$res =
> $dbr->select(...", which goes on for several lines -- then at line 75, I
> have "$dbr->SetFetchModeNum()" to go back to the default fetch mode. The
> issue is that ADO wants the fetch mode set at the time of the query, not at
> the time you actually start to retrieve the results of the query. For ADO,
> that is too late!
>
> As I said, this only shows up in a few places in the code. For the most
> part, Mediawiki retrieves the results using numeric field identifiers.
>
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  
>> DJ Bauch wrote:
>>    
>>> I have had Mediawiki running on Microsoft SQL Server pretty much without
>>>      
>> any
>>    
>>> problems for several months now, originally on SQL Server 2000, but now
>>>      
>> on
>>    
>>> 2005. This week the boss decided it was time to move it from our
>>>      
>> development
>>    
>>> box to a production server. The version I'm running is based on release
>>> 1.12, but includes quite a bit from the 1.13 code as well. That includes
>>> several extensions. I'd love to have my stuff rolled in to the shared
>>> source. The only significant change that impacts quite a few of the PHP
>>> sources (primarily the Special... stuff) is that I had to add a couple of
>>> methods to the Database class to switch back and forth between returning
>>> query results in arrays (which works most of the time) and returning
>>>      
>> query
>>    
>>> results in objects with fields accessed by name. For performance reasons,
>>> the ADODB class that I used only does one or the other.
>>>      
>> It sounds like the best way to handle this would be for fetchObject() /
>> fetchRow() to translate formats, rather than change all other code.
>>
>> The current DatabaseMssql.php seems to be using mssql_fetch_object() and
>> mssql_fetch_array() already; is there any problem with how this works
>> presently?
>>
>> -- brion
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>>    
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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>  


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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Aryeh Gregor
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Aran <[hidden email]> wrote:
> For example the problems in the special pages DJ Bauch mentioned is due
> to the GROUP BY being part of a fully constructed SQL string rather than
> a DB::selectJoin method or something instead. The GROUP BY would then be
> part of an option array so it could be modified in the MSSQL
> implmentation of that method.

That might be best fixed where the queries are used, then.  That
syntax is rather opaque anyway.

> Also another issue is that MSSQL doesn't like inserts on auto-increment
> rows which are declared as NOT NULL but then are inserted with NULL's.
> MySQL ignores the NULL since its an auto-increment row and so not
> actually inserted. But MSSQL doesn't like it so it may be good to change
> such NULL's to 0 or "" or whatever type is appropriate, or not include
> those columns at all in the inserts.

This is fixable at the abstraction layer, or should be.  Look at what
PostgreSQL does: they don't submit a NULL, they insert some function
call or other.

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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

esthon
In reply to this post by Aryeh Gregor
Simetrical escreveu:

> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Esthon Medeiros <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I would like to know if there is any work to have DB2 supported by Mediawiki.
>> Also if there isn't, if I could start a project to create this support, I mean
>> if this is possible and/or desirable.
>
> If you want support, submit a patch.  Look in Database.php and various
> subclasses, like DatabasePostgres.php.  These are in includes/db/ in
> current trunk.  Write up a DatabaseDB2.php and submit it on Bugzilla
> or somewhere.  Changes also might be needed to the installer script to
> give it as an installation option.

Hi, is this the right path you were talking
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/db/ ?

Esthon.


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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Chad
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Esthon Medeiros <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Simetrical escreveu:
>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Esthon Medeiros <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I would like to know if there is any work to have DB2 supported by Mediawiki.
>>> Also if there isn't, if I could start a project to create this support, I mean
>>> if this is possible and/or desirable.
>>
>> If you want support, submit a patch.  Look in Database.php and various
>> subclasses, like DatabasePostgres.php.  These are in includes/db/ in
>> current trunk.  Write up a DatabaseDB2.php and submit it on Bugzilla
>> or somewhere.  Changes also might be needed to the installer script to
>> give it as an installation option.
>
> Hi, is this the right path you were talking
> http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/db/ ?
>
> Esthon.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>

That's it. Database.php is the default mySQL class. The Database*'s are
the other various implementations.

-Chad

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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Ashar Voultoiz-2
In reply to this post by esthon
Esthon Medeiros a écrit :
  > you're right, if it was only for my use and I already installed it with
> mysql and it was very fast to install and begin to use, excellent
> application. But, my suggestion is to create more compatibility for the
> product, I can see in this table
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software that few have
> DB2 support, so if it is not very complex I would like to work with it.

Nowaday, webapps use either Postgre or MySQL because they are fast,
reliable enough. People tend to start using Sqlite too as it is even
lighter and need close to no configuration. When using them with PHP,
you are just using an open source environment that also comes with
Apache and rarely offer any proprietary database format with it.

Some people implemented Oracle and MsSQL support because they already
use those in their company. This way they will get support from their
usual DBA, handle back up and use the same support contract.

As for DB2, the last time I heard about it, it was clearly not for a
webapp. It was used on IBM z/OS which run on the IBM Mainframe. The kind
of "servers" which have decade uptime and hold your bank account (and
other interesting things).

To conclude, probably nobody is going to use MediaWiki with a DB2
backend. But you can still implements it as an exercice :o)

cheers,


--
Ashar Voultoiz
"Once you have finished, you can start with Sybase"


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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

Michael Daly-5
Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
>
> As for DB2, the last time I heard about it, it was clearly not for a
> webapp. It was used on IBM z/OS which run on the IBM Mainframe. The kind
> of "servers" which have decade uptime and hold your bank account (and
> other interesting things).

I've developed DB2 apps on Windows platforms long ago.  It's been a
multi-platform product since way back when, so I don't know where you
got the idea that DB2 is a mainframe-only product.  There are versions
for Windows, Linux, Unix and other OSes.

I could see a number of companies wanting to use DB2 just as others
would want to use MS SQL Server, Oracle or other DB products.

Mike




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Re: IBM DB2 support for Mediawiki

esthon
Michael Daly escreveu:

> Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
>> As for DB2, the last time I heard about it, it was clearly not for a
>> webapp. It was used on IBM z/OS which run on the IBM Mainframe. The kind
>> of "servers" which have decade uptime and hold your bank account (and
>> other interesting things).
>
> I've developed DB2 apps on Windows platforms long ago.  It's been a
> multi-platform product since way back when, so I don't know where you
> got the idea that DB2 is a mainframe-only product.  There are versions
> for Windows, Linux, Unix and other OSes.
>
> I could see a number of companies wanting to use DB2 just as others
> would want to use MS SQL Server, Oracle or other DB products.
>
> Mike

Yes, DB2 is a multi-platform product. Also, there is a free version you
can download for your personal use. It is a robust database product
running in Unix or Linux (including Linux in Mainframe) and it is much
more robust and reliable if running in a z/OS. Today mainframes are
running web sites supporting the very big load peek of transactions that
occurs frequently.

I think of an environment where we would have MediaWiki running in a
Linux in a mainframe partition connected to a DB2 running in z/OS in
another partition at the same mainframe. The connection would be done
through the use of a hypersocket (virtual LAN) that in reality transfers
memory to memory.

I have no problems with mySQL of Oracle or any other database. I like
mySQL very much and use it a lot. But I think, as I told before, that
MediaWiki could have more alternatives of choice for database. This
could be good for more enterprise use of MediaWiki.

Esthon. (BTW, I work for IBM, but my work here is personal).


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