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IRC guidelines

Casey Brown-3
I noticed today that the IRC Guidelines (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines) weren't translated into other languages even though they supposedly apply to all.  This isn't very good practice.  Do you think it should be translated?
 
This also applis to the #wikipedia guidelines, but it looks someone beat me to that! (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia)  However, I'm not sure if they are done arguing on that page, so it may be best to wait a little bit before you being translating.
Thanks, and looking forward to comments!

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Re: IRC guidelines

KIZU Naoko
On 8/10/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I noticed today that the IRC Guidelines
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines) weren't
> translated into other languages even though they supposedly apply to all.

I haven't thought it that: is it only applied for #wikipedia,
substantially English channel or not?

> This isn't very good practice.  Do you think it should be translated?

Volunteers do, and it is not the foundation matter, so the request is
not coordinated by Transcom, while it was requested as such. I
rejected it for request page, it should be coordinated by the original
requester.

>
> This also applis to the #wikipedia guidelines, but it looks someone beat me
> to that!
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia)
> However, I'm not sure if they are done arguing on that page, so it may be
> best to wait a little bit before you being translating.
>
> Thanks, and looking forward to comments!
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
> ---
> Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
> to
> this address will probably get lost.
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>
>


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  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * habent enim emolumentum in labore suo *

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Re: IRC guidelines

Maria Fanucchi
In reply to this post by Casey Brown-3
It wouldn't take long at all to translate, but is it really necessary? Does anyone read this page? Or are you asking for translation because this page is the "official rulebook" of the IRC channels, and as such would need translation to serve as a reference and reminder?
--Maria
User:Arria Belli

On 8/10/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
I noticed today that the IRC Guidelines (<a href="http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines ) weren't translated into other languages even though they supposedly apply to all.  This isn't very good practice.  Do you think it should be translated?
 
This also applis to the #wikipedia guidelines, but it looks someone beat me to that! (<a href="http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia)  However, I'm not sure if they are done arguing on that page, so it may be best to wait a little bit before you being translating.
Thanks, and looking forward to comments!

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Re: IRC guidelines

Casey Brown-3
That's what I mean, by "not very good practice", I mean it is *very* rude for all of us to assume that people follow rules/guidelines in a language that they do not necessarily speak.  The guidelines make it seem like they apply to all Wikimedia channels in all languages, thus they should be written in as many langauges as possible.  And if I were asking solely for a translation, I would have just put the template on the page.  I want to know what how people feel about translating the guidelins, so I posted here.

On 8/10/07, Maria Fanucchi <[hidden email]> wrote:
It wouldn't take long at all to translate, but is it really necessary? Does anyone read this page? Or are you asking for translation because this page is the "official rulebook" of the IRC channels, and as such would need translation to serve as a reference and reminder?
--Maria
User:Arria Belli

On 8/10/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
I noticed today that the IRC Guidelines (<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines" target="_blank">http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines ) weren't translated into other languages even though they supposedly apply to all.  This isn't very good practice.  Do you think it should be translated?
 
This also applis to the #wikipedia guidelines, but it looks someone beat me to that! (<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia" target="_blank"> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia)  However, I'm not sure if they are done arguing on that page, so it may be best to wait a little bit before you being translating.
Thanks, and looking forward to comments!

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Re: IRC guidelines

Casey Brown-3
In reply to this post by KIZU Naoko


On 8/10/07, Aphaia <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 8/10/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I noticed today that the IRC Guidelines
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines) weren't
> translated into other languages even though they supposedly apply to all.

I haven't thought it that: is it only applied for #wikipedia,
substantially English channel or not?
 
The main [[m:IRC guidelines]] page is supposed to apply to *all* project and *all* language channels, not just the #wikipedia one or the English-speaking ones.

> This isn't very good practice.  Do you think it should be translated?

Volunteers do, and it is not the foundation matter, so the request is
not coordinated by Transcom, while it was requested as such. I
rejected it for request page, it should be coordinated by the original
requester.
 
Not very good practice for the writers of the guidelines or the owners' of the channels.  I would not dare to say that Transcom is bad because they are not translating *everything*, they're entirely made up of volunteers and can't be expected to do it all.
 
But it is also up to discussion on whether it is a Foundation matter, IRC is officially unofficial, but the Foundation still owns the channels.

>
> This also applis to the #wikipedia guidelines, but it looks someone beat me
> to that!
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia)
> However, I'm not sure if they are done arguing on that page, so it may be
> best to wait a little bit before you being translating.
 
This is the bit that *only* applies to #wikipedia.  However, the ones of the channel say that they wish other-language users to use the channel as well.  But we can't expect them to use the channel if they can't even read the rules that will be thrust upon them in the #wikipedia channel if they go there.

>

> Thanks, and looking forward to comments!
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
> ---
> Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
> to
> this address will probably get lost.
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>
>


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* habent enim emolumentum in labore suo *

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Thanks for your comments! :)

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Re: IRC guidelines

KIZU Naoko
In reply to this post by Casey Brown-3
Hi, thank you for your reply,

On 8/11/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> That's what I mean, by "not very good practice", I mean it is *very* rude
> for all of us to assume that people follow rules/guidelines in a language
> that they do not necessarily speak.

It is reasonable per se, so I wonder why the same person think it also
reasonable to put a guideline which was made only through a discussion
by English speaking people to the other language people.

The case is different from the Foundation policies, like privacy
policy or licensing policy, because we trust them the power and right
to settle such globally applied rule. I don't think you are elected in
the same manner. Or I don't think you are delegated to set such a
global rules in a same manner with committees which were settled by
Board resolutions and their initial membership were solely established
in those resolution. I would like you to remind Communication Project
Group is not a committee, and has no power to settle an official
guideline based on delegation from the Board.  I found no good reason
therefore that you command Transcom for working to satisfy your
unofficial desire.

 > The guidelines make it seem like they

> apply to all Wikimedia channels in all languages, thus they should be
> written in as many langauges as possible.  And if I were asking solely for a
> translation, I would have just put the template on the page.  I want to know
> what how people feel about translating the guidelins, so I posted here.
>
>
>
> On 8/10/07, Maria Fanucchi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > It wouldn't take long at all to translate, but is it really necessary?
> Does anyone read this page? Or are you asking for translation because this
> page is the "official rulebook" of the IRC channels, and as such would need
> translation to serve as a reference and reminder?
> > --Maria
> > User:Arria Belli
> >
> >
> > On 8/10/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I noticed today that the IRC Guidelines
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines ) weren't
> translated into other languages even though they supposedly apply to all.
> This isn't very good practice.  Do you think it should be translated?
> > >
> > > This also applis to the #wikipedia guidelines, but it looks someone beat
> me to that! (
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia)
> However, I'm not sure if they are done arguing on that page, so it may be
> best to wait a little bit before you being translating.
> > >
> > > Thanks, and looking forward to comments!
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Casey Brown
> > > Cbrown1023
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> sent to
> > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Translators-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Translators-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
> ---
> Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
> to
> this address will probably get lost.
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>
>


--
KIZU Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * habent enim emolumentum in labore suo *

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Re: IRC guidelines

Christophe Henner
The CPG hasn't decided anything!

Moreover the IRC guidelines, even if they have been written in good
faith (and even more if I agree with them) were (are) not accepted by
everyone.

So before asking for translating it, better to be sure everybody agrees on it.

On the other, once the guidelines has been accepted by "everyone" it
would be needed to be translated has it concerns all the wikimedia IRC
channels.

On 11/08/07, Aphaia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi, thank you for your reply,
>
> On 8/11/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > That's what I mean, by "not very good practice", I mean it is *very* rude
> > for all of us to assume that people follow rules/guidelines in a language
> > that they do not necessarily speak.
>
> It is reasonable per se, so I wonder why the same person think it also
> reasonable to put a guideline which was made only through a discussion
> by English speaking people to the other language people.
>
> The case is different from the Foundation policies, like privacy
> policy or licensing policy, because we trust them the power and right
> to settle such globally applied rule. I don't think you are elected in
> the same manner. Or I don't think you are delegated to set such a
> global rules in a same manner with committees which were settled by
> Board resolutions and their initial membership were solely established
> in those resolution. I would like you to remind Communication Project
> Group is not a committee, and has no power to settle an official
> guideline based on delegation from the Board.  I found no good reason
> therefore that you command Transcom for working to satisfy your
> unofficial desire.
>
>  > The guidelines make it seem like they
> > apply to all Wikimedia channels in all languages, thus they should be
> > written in as many langauges as possible.  And if I were asking solely for a
> > translation, I would have just put the template on the page.  I want to know
> > what how people feel about translating the guidelins, so I posted here.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/10/07, Maria Fanucchi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > It wouldn't take long at all to translate, but is it really necessary?
> > Does anyone read this page? Or are you asking for translation because this
> > page is the "official rulebook" of the IRC channels, and as such would need
> > translation to serve as a reference and reminder?
> > > --Maria
> > > User:Arria Belli
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/10/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I noticed today that the IRC Guidelines
> > (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines ) weren't
> > translated into other languages even though they supposedly apply to all.
> > This isn't very good practice.  Do you think it should be translated?
> > > >
> > > > This also applis to the #wikipedia guidelines, but it looks someone beat
> > me to that! (
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia)
> > However, I'm not sure if they are done arguing on that page, so it may be
> > best to wait a little bit before you being translating.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, and looking forward to comments!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Casey Brown
> > > > Cbrown1023
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> > sent to
> > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Translators-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Translators-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Casey Brown
> > Cbrown1023
> >
> > ---
> > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
> > to
> > this address will probably get lost.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Translators-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> KIZU Naoko
>   Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
>   * habent enim emolumentum in labore suo *
>
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>


--
schiste

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Re: IRC guidelines

Casey Brown-3
In reply to this post by KIZU Naoko
I'm going to reply priavtely to you right here, as a friend, because I am slightly hurt.

On 8/11/07, Aphaia <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi, thank you for your reply,

On 8/11/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> That's what I mean, by "not very good practice", I mean it is *very* rude
> for all of us to assume that people follow rules/guidelines in a language
> that they do not necessarily speak.

It is reasonable per se, so I wonder why the same person think it also
reasonable to put a guideline which was made only through a discussion
by English speaking people to the other language people.

The case is different from the Foundation policies, like privacy
policy or licensing policy, because we trust them the power and right
to settle such globally applied rule. I don't think you are elected in
the same manner. Or I don't think you are delegated to set such a
global rules in a same manner with committees which were settled by
Board resolutions and their initial membership were solely established
in those resolution. I would like you to remind Communication Project
Group is not a committee, and has no power to settle an official
guideline based on delegation from the Board.  I found no good reason
therefore that you command Transcom for working to satisfy your
unofficial desire.

> The guidelines make it seem like they
> apply to all Wikimedia channels in all languages, thus they should be
> written in as many langauges as possible.  And if I were asking solely for a
> translation, I would have just put the template on the page.  I want to know
> what how people feel about translating the guidelins, so I posted here.
>
>
>
> On 8/10/07, Maria Fanucchi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > It wouldn't take long at all to translate, but is it really necessary?
> Does anyone read this page? Or are you asking for translation because this
> page is the "official rulebook" of the IRC channels, and as such would need
> translation to serve as a reference and reminder?
> > --Maria
> > User:Arria Belli
> >
> >
> > On 8/10/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I noticed today that the IRC Guidelines
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines ) weren't
> translated into other languages even though they supposedly apply to all.
> This isn't very good practice.  Do you think it should be translated?
> > >
> > > This also applis to the #wikipedia guidelines, but it looks someone beat
> me to that! (
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia)
> However, I'm not sure if they are done arguing on that page, so it may be
> best to wait a little bit before you being translating.
> > >
> > > Thanks, and looking forward to comments!
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Casey Brown
> > > Cbrown1023
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> sent to
> > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Translators-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > >

> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Translators-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
> ---
> Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
> to
> this address will probably get lost.
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>
>


--
KIZU Naoko
Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
* habent enim emolumentum in labore suo *

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--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Re: IRC guidelines

Casey Brown-3
In reply to this post by Christophe Henner
I'm not asking for it to be translated, I was just asking about *if* it should be translated.  And the one that I was referring to more in the present tense are not disputed by anyone (or they haven't spoken up).

On 8/11/07, Christophe Henner <[hidden email]> wrote:
The CPG hasn't decided anything!

Moreover the IRC guidelines, even if they have been written in good
faith (and even more if I agree with them) were (are) not accepted by
everyone.

So before asking for translating it, better to be sure everybody agrees on it.

On the other, once the guidelines has been accepted by "everyone" it
would be needed to be translated has it concerns all the wikimedia IRC
channels.

On 11/08/07, Aphaia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi, thank you for your reply,
>
> On 8/11/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > That's what I mean, by "not very good practice", I mean it is *very* rude
> > for all of us to assume that people follow rules/guidelines in a language
> > that they do not necessarily speak.
>
> It is reasonable per se, so I wonder why the same person think it also
> reasonable to put a guideline which was made only through a discussion
> by English speaking people to the other language people.
>
> The case is different from the Foundation policies, like privacy
> policy or licensing policy, because we trust them the power and right
> to settle such globally applied rule. I don't think you are elected in
> the same manner. Or I don't think you are delegated to set such a
> global rules in a same manner with committees which were settled by
> Board resolutions and their initial membership were solely established
> in those resolution. I would like you to remind Communication Project
> Group is not a committee, and has no power to settle an official
> guideline based on delegation from the Board.  I found no good reason
> therefore that you command Transcom for working to satisfy your
> unofficial desire.
>
>  > The guidelines make it seem like they
> > apply to all Wikimedia channels in all languages, thus they should be
> > written in as many langauges as possible.  And if I were asking solely for a
> > translation, I would have just put the template on the page.  I want to know
> > what how people feel about translating the guidelins, so I posted here.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/10/07, Maria Fanucchi < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > It wouldn't take long at all to translate, but is it really necessary?
> > Does anyone read this page? Or are you asking for translation because this
> > page is the "official rulebook" of the IRC channels, and as such would need
> > translation to serve as a reference and reminder?
> > > --Maria
> > > User:Arria Belli
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/10/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I noticed today that the IRC Guidelines
> > (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines ) weren't
> > translated into other languages even though they supposedly apply to all.
> > This isn't very good practice.  Do you think it should be translated?
> > > >
> > > > This also applis to the #wikipedia guidelines, but it looks someone beat
> > me to that! (
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_guidelines/wikipedia)
> > However, I'm not sure if they are done arguing on that page, so it may be
> > best to wait a little bit before you being translating.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, and looking forward to comments!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Casey Brown
> > > > Cbrown1023
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> > sent to
> > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Translators-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Translators-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Casey Brown
> > Cbrown1023
> >
> > ---
> > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
> > to
> > this address will probably get lost.
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schiste

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