Jimbo and his strategy

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Jimbo and his strategy

STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
I said the same thing on Kelly's talkpage, but
MegamanZero removed my message and warned to block me
for trolling.

I think that you guys should stop doing Jimbo'w work.
If he wants the userboxes gone, let him do it. It's
not like he's doing something else -- like working on
articles. I think that Jimbo doesn't want to give
concrete orders on this issue because he knows that
his decission would make him unpopular to many.
Instead, he gives a few hints on what should be done
and lets other people, like Kelly Martin, to do the
work. Jimbo, either you want the userboxes removed --
and make it happen -- or you do not. Until you decide,
the userboxes should stay. Why should the community
busy itself on debating about this week after week,
and causing people to be more confused and frustated
about it?

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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Ilya N.
So basically what you're saying is because Jimbo Wales is busy running
things on the WMF board, then the userboxes should stay?

That's a pretty weak argument.

By your logic, if Jimbo can't write articles, why does he make us do them
and then get in trouble with the press when controversial issues arise? If
he can't do them himself, they should stay unwritten.

On 2/19/06, STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I said the same thing on Kelly's talkpage, but
> MegamanZero removed my message and warned to block me
> for trolling.
>
> I think that you guys should stop doing Jimbo'w work.
> If he wants the userboxes gone, let him do it. It's
> not like he's doing something else -- like working on
> articles. I think that Jimbo doesn't want to give
> concrete orders on this issue because he knows that
> his decission would make him unpopular to many.
> Instead, he gives a few hints on what should be done
> and lets other people, like Kelly Martin, to do the
> work. Jimbo, either you want the userboxes removed --
> and make it happen -- or you do not. Until you decide,
> the userboxes should stay. Why should the community
> busy itself on debating about this week after week,
> and causing people to be more confused and frustated
> about it?
>
> __________________________________________________
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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Philip Welch
> So basically what you're saying is because Jimbo Wales is busy running
> things on the WMF board, then the userboxes should stay?
>
> That's a pretty weak argument.
>
> By your logic, if Jimbo can't write articles, why does he make us  
> do them
> and then get in trouble with the press when controversial issues  
> arise? If
> he can't do them himself, they should stay unwritten.

I think his argument, (and if it isn't, it's possibly a stronger  
argument), is that it's not up to certain un-named admins to delete  
userboxes on Jimbo's behalf, based only on their interpretation of  
Jimbo's statements on the issue, because if Jimbo really wanted  
userboxes to go he'd say so.

--
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Philwelch



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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
In reply to this post by Ilya N.
I'm saying that first of all, he should make a
decission -- something he hasn't done yet. He says he
wants them gone, but that's different from saying that
they should all be removed. Just today I read one of
his messages to Angela where he was giving doubts
about how to handle the situation. He mentioned
something about a bot removing all the userboxes, but
only as a solution for the near future. As a leader,
he should show more consistency and make a decission
that stands. Either that, or listen to the voice of
the community. If he does that, he would probably have
to keep the userboxes. One way or another, people are
getting fed up with this dispute.

--- "Ilya N." <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So basically what you're saying is because Jimbo
> Wales is busy running
> things on the WMF board, then the userboxes should
> stay?
>
> That's a pretty weak argument.
>
> By your logic, if Jimbo can't write articles, why
> does he make us do them
> and then get in trouble with the press when
> controversial issues arise? If
> he can't do them himself, they should stay
> unwritten.
>
> On 2/19/06, STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I said the same thing on Kelly's talkpage, but
> > MegamanZero removed my message and warned to block
> me
> > for trolling.
> >
> > I think that you guys should stop doing Jimbo'w
> work.
> > If he wants the userboxes gone, let him do it.
> It's
> > not like he's doing something else -- like working
> on
> > articles. I think that Jimbo doesn't want to give
> > concrete orders on this issue because he knows
> that
> > his decission would make him unpopular to many.
> > Instead, he gives a few hints on what should be
> done
> > and lets other people, like Kelly Martin, to do
> the
> > work. Jimbo, either you want the userboxes removed
> --
> > and make it happen -- or you do not. Until you
> decide,
> > the userboxes should stay. Why should the
> community
> > busy itself on debating about this week after
> week,
> > and causing people to be more confused and
> frustated
> > about it?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> >
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ~Ilya N.
> http://w3stuff.com/ilya/ (My website; DarkLordFoxx
> Media)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ilyanep (on
> Wikipedia)
> http://www.wheresgeorge.com - Track your money's
> travels.
> _______________________________________________
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>


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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
In reply to this post by Philip Welch


--- Philip Welch <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > So basically what you're saying is because Jimbo
> Wales is busy running
> > things on the WMF board, then the userboxes should
> stay?
> >
> > That's a pretty weak argument.
> >
> > By your logic, if Jimbo can't write articles, why
> does he make us  
> > do them
> > and then get in trouble with the press when
> controversial issues  
> > arise? If
> > he can't do them himself, they should stay
> unwritten.
>
> I think his argument, (and if it isn't, it's
> possibly a stronger  
> argument), is that it's not up to certain un-named
> admins to delete  
> userboxes on Jimbo's behalf, based only on their
> interpretation of  
> Jimbo's statements on the issue, because if Jimbo
> really wanted  
> userboxes to go he'd say so.
>
> --
> Philip L. Welch
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Philwelch
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
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> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

That's the main argument. The other argument is that
Jimbo is using proxies to do his work, which would
otherwise make him a target of criticism. Not that he
isn't a target already, but it seems he wants to
redirect the criticism onto others.

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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Charles Matthews
In reply to this post by STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
"STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA" wrote

> not like he's doing something else -- like working on
> articles.

How much do you actually know about the set-up?

Charles

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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Tony Sidaway-3
In reply to this post by STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
On 2/19/06, STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I said the same thing on Kelly's talkpage, but
> MegamanZero removed my message and warned to block me
> for trolling.
>

If MegamanZero did that, he was wrong.  I'll check into it and have a
chat with him about this--I'm his former mentor.
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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
In reply to this post by Charles Matthews
Dude, I don't know what he's doing behind the scenes,
but I can imagine that he's being 'The Boss'. That,
however, doesn't change anything in my argument. How
much do you know, tho? I think that as the founder of
Wiki, he should have worked A LOT more on articles. I
read that he made somewhere below 200 edits on
articles, and this is since 2001. That would make it
what? About 40 edits in 5 years? Less than four edits
per month? Sorry, but my opinion is that he should be
a role-model for other editors when it comes to
editing. This, however, is another debate. I hope you
didn't try to weaken my argument by changing the
subject and making me look naive. Even if I were
naive, the argument stands.

--- charles matthews <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> "STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA" wrote
>
> > not like he's doing something else -- like working
> on
> > articles.
>
> How much do you actually know about the set-up?
>
> Charles
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
In reply to this post by Tony Sidaway-3
He removed it because I wrote that Kelly shouldn't do
his [Jimbo's] dirty work. Now that I think of it, it
does sound a bit rude, but I don't agree that it was
trolling.

--- Tony Sidaway <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/19/06, STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I said the same thing on Kelly's talkpage, but
> > MegamanZero removed my message and warned to block
> me
> > for trolling.
> >
>
> If MegamanZero did that, he was wrong.  I'll check
> into it and have a
> chat with him about this--I'm his former mentor.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

geni
In reply to this post by STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
On 2/19/06, STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dude, I don't know what he's doing behind the scenes,
> but I can imagine that he's being 'The Boss'. That,
> however, doesn't change anything in my argument. How
> much do you know, tho? I think that as the founder of
> Wiki, he should have worked A LOT more on articles. I
> read that he made somewhere below 200 edits on
> articles, and this is since 2001. That would make it
> what? About 40 edits in 5 years? Less than four edits
> per month? Sorry, but my opinion is that he should be
> a role-model for other editors when it comes to
> editing.

No we need someone to run the foundation (some decent finacial
modeling would be nice the last lot I saw had us haveing 10 times
yahoo's traffic within 2 years). Timewise running the foundation is
not compatible with dealing with the day to day issues on
en.wikipedia.

--
geni
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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Charles Matthews
In reply to this post by STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
"STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA" wrote

>I think that as the founder of
> Wiki, he should have worked A LOT more on articles.

You have this so wrong.  Even if his position were like an editor of a
newspaper - and in a sense it has become more complex than that, recently -
there would be no need to write it himself.

Charles


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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Tony Sidaway-3
Does anybody know how to killfile a thread in gmail?
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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
In reply to this post by Charles Matthews
I don't think I'm wrong. I think that as if you're an
editor-in-chief for a newspaper, you should have
previously worked as a journalist. Or, if you're a
coach for a football team, you should have played the
sport. I just don't see where Jimbo fits into that
picture. Sure, he might be busy today, but in the dawn
of Wiki, when there were only a handful of editors,
I'm sure he could've found the time to work on a few
articles. He even could've started a few articles from
the scratch! But hey, there's nothing wrong with being
in the spotlight. I would trade with him!


--- charles matthews <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> "STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA" wrote
>
> >I think that as the founder of
> > Wiki, he should have worked A LOT more on
> articles.
>
> You have this so wrong.  Even if his position were
> like an editor of a
> newspaper - and in a sense it has become more
> complex than that, recently -
> there would be no need to write it himself.
>
> Charles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
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>


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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Angela-5
In reply to this post by Tony Sidaway-3
On 2/20/06, Tony Sidaway <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Does anybody know how to killfile a thread in gmail?

You can use gmail filters to do this, though you can only have 20 of them:
https://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6579&query=filter&topic=0&type=f


Angela.
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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
In reply to this post by Tony Sidaway-3
If you have something to say to me, just do so. Don't
try to provoke me with these pitty insults.

--- Tony Sidaway <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does anybody know how to killfile a thread in gmail?
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Steve Bennett-4
In reply to this post by STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
On 2/19/06, STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think that you guys should stop doing Jimbo'w work.
> If he wants the userboxes gone, let him do it. It's
> not like he's doing something else -- like working on

Yes, let's all just pick on Jimbo, rather than having a meaningful discussion.

Steve
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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Guy Chapman aka JzG
In reply to this post by STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:24:20 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>I think that you guys should stop doing Jimbo'w work.

We are all "doing Jimbo's work".  It's his project.  

Guy
--
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"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
Is this also a part of Jimbo's work? Someone was
blocked for 24-hours for keeping their userboxes on
ther userpage. Have a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AKelly_Martin&diff=40345913&oldid=40338206

--- Guy Chapman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:24:20 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
>
> >I think that you guys should stop doing Jimbo'w
> work.
>
> We are all "doing Jimbo's work".  It's his project.
>
>
> Guy
> --
> http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
>
> "To every complex problem there is a solution which
> is
> simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken
>
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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Guy Chapman aka JzG
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:34:04 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>Is this also a part of Jimbo's work? Someone was
>blocked for 24-hours for keeping their userboxes on
>ther userpage. Have a look:

For some reason, some users seem to think that provocative userboxen
are perfectly acceptable.  They often cite "free speech" which is
fine, they are more than welcome to go to some other encyclopaedia
which guarantees free speech, but this is not that project.  Pissing
other editors off is a fact of life, going out of your way to do so
appears to me to fall somewhat sort of the accepted norms of the
project.  But what do I know?  It's Jimbo's project.

Guy
--
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"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

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Re: Jimbo and his strategy

Guy Chapman aka JzG
In reply to this post by STEFAN CLAUDIU TIULEA
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:34:04 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AKelly_Martin&diff=40345913&oldid=40338206

Oh, one more thing: the fact that Kelly found it necessary to take
that action shows just how poisonous the whole issue is.  Right to
wrong (and I make no judgment on that) the simple fact that the
exchange took place is an indictment of the corrosive nature of the
problem.

Guy
--
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"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

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