Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

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Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

Seventy Nine
Hello,

I am sending this letter to this mailing list after several failed attempts
to address administrators in the "Arbitration Committee" and the "Unblock
mailing list". Apparently this is a Kafkaesque story which no one wishes to
handle.

I have recently started to edit on the English Wikipedia. I wished to remain
anonymous, which, to my best knowledge, is legitimate on the English
Wikipedia, therefore I contributed under my IP address. Later on, and after
several pleas on behalf of other editors, I opened an account. In order to
keep my edits under the same attribution, I called the account
"User:KnownAs-79-181-9-231" (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:KnownAs-79-181-9-231). My edits on the
article "Golan Heights" were reverted. I was asked to explain them, and so I
did, in details, on the "Talk Page" affiliated with the article. This
explanations were contested in a lengthy discussions. Some of the comments
were good, and I addressed them. Some, especially from two users whose
aliases I won't mention in this message, offered comments which seemed to be
politically motivated. One of these users posted questions on my personal
"Talk Page", which included threats (not "real life" threats, but threats to
act against me within the English Wikipedia editors' community). I refused
to answer his personal questions.

Then, one morning, and without any previous notice, I found myself banned
for being a "sock puppet" of some editor. The person who submitted the
request to ban me (a request which I found after searching many
administrative pages), is one of the two aforementioned users who objected
my edits. The editor who posted threats on my personal "Talk Page" second
him. The "evidences" were my edits, which, according to them, resembled the
edits of another editor who had been previously banned for one reason or
another. Apparently, my ban was sweeping, i.e. I couldn't comment on the
allegations against me, nor post a request to overturn the ban. I sent a
letter to the "Arbitration Committee" with copy to the "Unblock mailing
list". I asked to revoke the ban immediately, as it was based on sheer
speculations. The committee can ask me questions if it deemed it necessary,
but their first task is to lift a ban which was imposed without due process.

I received an outrageous response, suggesting my ban was legitimate until I
could prove otherwise. How exactly can I disprove far-fetched speculations?
Furthermore, after searching the administrative pages a bit more thoroughly,
I found out that the two users who asked my ban, where banned themselves
several times for making problematic edits on articles related to Middle
East issues. This makes the allegations against me even more peculiar.

Thank you very much for your attention.
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Re: Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

John Doe-27
Ive double checked with multiple sources and cross referenced both
unblock-en and OTRS (in case you mixed up your emails) and can find no
record of a request or email from you to either group. So Unless your using
even more sockpuppets than your claiming, (or used an unknown email address,
failed to state your IP address, user account or blocking admin. Which is
very unlikely) You are full of bullshit. Please stop lying, or admit to all
your sock puppets, because with the information that you have provided, the
logs for both unblock-en-l and OTRS prove that you did not send or get a
message from either group.

John

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Seventy Nine <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am sending this letter to this mailing list after several failed attempts
> to address administrators in the "Arbitration Committee" and the "Unblock
> mailing list". Apparently this is a Kafkaesque story which no one wishes to
> handle.
>
> I have recently started to edit on the English Wikipedia. I wished to
> remain
> anonymous, which, to my best knowledge, is legitimate on the English
> Wikipedia, therefore I contributed under my IP address. Later on, and after
> several pleas on behalf of other editors, I opened an account. In order to
> keep my edits under the same attribution, I called the account
> "User:KnownAs-79-181-9-231" (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:KnownAs-79-181-9-231). My edits on the
> article "Golan Heights" were reverted. I was asked to explain them, and so
> I
> did, in details, on the "Talk Page" affiliated with the article. This
> explanations were contested in a lengthy discussions. Some of the comments
> were good, and I addressed them. Some, especially from two users whose
> aliases I won't mention in this message, offered comments which seemed to
> be
> politically motivated. One of these users posted questions on my personal
> "Talk Page", which included threats (not "real life" threats, but threats
> to
> act against me within the English Wikipedia editors' community). I refused
> to answer his personal questions.
>
> Then, one morning, and without any previous notice, I found myself banned
> for being a "sock puppet" of some editor. The person who submitted the
> request to ban me (a request which I found after searching many
> administrative pages), is one of the two aforementioned users who objected
> my edits. The editor who posted threats on my personal "Talk Page" second
> him. The "evidences" were my edits, which, according to them, resembled the
> edits of another editor who had been previously banned for one reason or
> another. Apparently, my ban was sweeping, i.e. I couldn't comment on the
> allegations against me, nor post a request to overturn the ban. I sent a
> letter to the "Arbitration Committee" with copy to the "Unblock mailing
> list". I asked to revoke the ban immediately, as it was based on sheer
> speculations. The committee can ask me questions if it deemed it necessary,
> but their first task is to lift a ban which was imposed without due
> process.
>
> I received an outrageous response, suggesting my ban was legitimate until I
> could prove otherwise. How exactly can I disprove far-fetched speculations?
> Furthermore, after searching the administrative pages a bit more
> thoroughly,
> I found out that the two users who asked my ban, where banned themselves
> several times for making problematic edits on articles related to Middle
> East issues. This makes the allegations against me even more peculiar.
>
> Thank you very much for your attention.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
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Re: Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

K. Peachey
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:56 AM, John Doe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ive double checked with multiple sources and cross referenced both
> unblock-en and OTRS (in case you mixed up your emails) and can find no
> record of a request or email from you to either group. So Unless your using
> even more sockpuppets than your claiming, (or used an unknown email address,
> failed to state your IP address, user account or blocking admin. Which is
> very unlikely) You are full of bullshit. Please stop lying, or admit to all
> your sock puppets, because with the information that you have provided, the
> logs for both unblock-en-l and OTRS prove that you did not send or get a
> message from either group.
>
> John
As a OTRS member, do you really believe the language you just used in
that email as appropriate?

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Re: Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

Sarah Ewart-2
To be clear, John is not an OTRS agent. I believe he was saying that
he had checked with people who are agents ("multiple sources") but
he's not one himself (though he is subscribed to the unblock-en-l
mailing list as a former admin).


On 8/30/10, K. Peachey <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:56 AM, John Doe <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Ive double checked with multiple sources and cross referenced both
>> unblock-en and OTRS (in case you mixed up your emails) and can find no
>> record of a request or email from you to either group. So Unless your
>> using
>> even more sockpuppets than your claiming, (or used an unknown email
>> address,
>> failed to state your IP address, user account or blocking admin. Which is
>> very unlikely) You are full of bullshit. Please stop lying, or admit to
>> all
>> your sock puppets, because with the information that you have provided,
>> the
>> logs for both unblock-en-l and OTRS prove that you did not send or get a
>> message from either group.
>>
>> John
> As a OTRS member, do you really believe the language you just used in
> that email as appropriate?
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

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Re: Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

John Doe-27
Please note that I am not an OTRS agent, and never claimed to be. What I
stated, was that I had run several checks for this user across multiple
mailing lists, (foundation-l, wikien-l, unblock-en-l, and the OTRS system
along with several others just to be through) and that this user (with the
information that was provided) was never part of any conversation on said
mailing lists.  With such a comprehensive cross check (through my own work
and checking with others that had access to other lists) I confirmed that
"Seventy Nine" was either lying in their original post or had been using
other non-disclosed sock puppets. Had I responded to this users questions as
part of either unblock-en-l or as part of the OTRS queue I would have done
my best to take a look and review the situation. However once they posted to
a public mailing list about their said treatment on one of these lists (and
being unable to confirm said treatment) a explanation is needed from the
user in question about their activities and about why they are making false
claims.

John
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Re: Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

David Gerard-2
On 30 August 2010 11:43, John Doe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> However once they posted to
> a public mailing list about their said treatment on one of these lists (and
> being unable to confirm said treatment) a explanation is needed from the
> user in question about their activities and about why they are making false
> claims.


I only let it through mod because I was unaware it had been spammed
across multiple Wikimedia mailing lists. wikien-l is not the unblock
list.


- d.

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Re: Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

Ryan Delaney
In reply to this post by K. Peachey
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 11:05 PM, K. Peachey <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:56 AM, John Doe <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Ive double checked with multiple sources and cross referenced both
> > unblock-en and OTRS (in case you mixed up your emails) and can find no
> > record of a request or email from you to either group. So Unless your
> using
> > even more sockpuppets than your claiming, (or used an unknown email
> address,
> > failed to state your IP address, user account or blocking admin. Which is
> > very unlikely) You are full of bullshit. Please stop lying, or admit to
> all
> > your sock puppets, because with the information that you have provided,
> the
> > logs for both unblock-en-l and OTRS prove that you did not send or get a
> > message from either group.
> >
> > John
> As a OTRS member, do you really believe the language you just used in
> that email as appropriate?
>
>
Seriously. It is beyond depressing to be continually reminded that this kind
of behavior is still condoned and even expected. I'll be singing off this
mailing list shortly. Good luck turning things around.

- causa sui
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Re: Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

Fred Bauder-2
John Doe has been desysopped, or possibly resigned as an administrator.
He has not been outcast from the human race. He has minimum
responsibilities which he performs in a reasonably competent manner.

We are not pure and have no intentions of attempting to become pure.

However, as always, John Doe is reminded to be consistently courteous
regardless of circumstance.

If you feel the rough and tumble of the "agora" is too much; well,
sometimes it is.

Fred Bauder

> On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 11:05 PM, K. Peachey <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:56 AM, John Doe <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Ive double checked with multiple sources and cross referenced both
>> > unblock-en and OTRS (in case you mixed up your emails) and can find
>> no
>> > record of a request or email from you to either group. So Unless your
>> using
>> > even more sockpuppets than your claiming, (or used an unknown email
>> address,
>> > failed to state your IP address, user account or blocking admin.
>> Which is
>> > very unlikely) You are full of bullshit. Please stop lying, or admit
>> to
>> all
>> > your sock puppets, because with the information that you have
>> provided,
>> the
>> > logs for both unblock-en-l and OTRS prove that you did not send or
>> get a
>> > message from either group.
>> >
>> > John
>> As a OTRS member, do you really believe the language you just used in
>> that email as appropriate?
>>
>>
> Seriously. It is beyond depressing to be continually reminded that this
> kind
> of behavior is still condoned and even expected. I'll be singing off this
> mailing list shortly. Good luck turning things around.
>
> - causa sui
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>



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Re: Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

Ryan Delaney
I wouldn't over-interpret my parting shot. I was on the way out the door
anyway.

 - causa sui

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Fred Bauder <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John Doe has been desysopped, or possibly resigned as an administrator.
> He has not been outcast from the human race. He has minimum
> responsibilities which he performs in a reasonably competent manner.
>
> We are not pure and have no intentions of attempting to become pure.
>
> However, as always, John Doe is reminded to be consistently courteous
> regardless of circumstance.
>
> If you feel the rough and tumble of the "agora" is too much; well,
> sometimes it is.
>
> Fred Bauder
>
> > On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 11:05 PM, K. Peachey <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:56 AM, John Doe <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Ive double checked with multiple sources and cross referenced both
> >> > unblock-en and OTRS (in case you mixed up your emails) and can find
> >> no
> >> > record of a request or email from you to either group. So Unless your
> >> using
> >> > even more sockpuppets than your claiming, (or used an unknown email
> >> address,
> >> > failed to state your IP address, user account or blocking admin.
> >> Which is
> >> > very unlikely) You are full of bullshit. Please stop lying, or admit
> >> to
> >> all
> >> > your sock puppets, because with the information that you have
> >> provided,
> >> the
> >> > logs for both unblock-en-l and OTRS prove that you did not send or
> >> get a
> >> > message from either group.
> >> >
> >> > John
> >> As a OTRS member, do you really believe the language you just used in
> >> that email as appropriate?
> >>
> >>
> > Seriously. It is beyond depressing to be continually reminded that this
> > kind
> > of behavior is still condoned and even expected. I'll be singing off this
> > mailing list shortly. Good luck turning things around.
> >
> > - causa sui
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
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Re: Kafkaesque story on the English Wikipedia

michael west-3
This mailing list is easily googled and and I think words like
bullshit just casts a very bad cloud over who we appoint as
administrators on the project.

Whether or not it was cross posted is not of initial concern, we
should be more constructive and direct the user to the appropriate
method of responding to a block. It is quite possible that he/she has
applied for arbitration through an un-orthadox method.

Socks are easy to find and if the sock wants to continue with
politically motivated edits then they probably know how to get around
the situation.  Otherwise, I think we should give the benefit to
editors, before describing them as bullshitters.

On 30/08/2010, Ryan Delaney <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I wouldn't over-interpret my parting shot. I was on the way out the door
> anyway.
>
>  - causa sui
>
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Fred Bauder <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> John Doe has been desysopped, or possibly resigned as an administrator.
>> He has not been outcast from the human race. He has minimum
>> responsibilities which he performs in a reasonably competent manner.
>>
>> We are not pure and have no intentions of attempting to become pure.
>>
>> However, as always, John Doe is reminded to be consistently courteous
>> regardless of circumstance.
>>
>> If you feel the rough and tumble of the "agora" is too much; well,
>> sometimes it is.
>>
>> Fred Bauder
>>
>> > On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 11:05 PM, K. Peachey <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:56 AM, John Doe <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Ive double checked with multiple sources and cross referenced both
>> >> > unblock-en and OTRS (in case you mixed up your emails) and can find
>> >> no
>> >> > record of a request or email from you to either group. So Unless your
>> >> using
>> >> > even more sockpuppets than your claiming, (or used an unknown email
>> >> address,
>> >> > failed to state your IP address, user account or blocking admin.
>> >> Which is
>> >> > very unlikely) You are full of bullshit. Please stop lying, or admit
>> >> to
>> >> all
>> >> > your sock puppets, because with the information that you have
>> >> provided,
>> >> the
>> >> > logs for both unblock-en-l and OTRS prove that you did not send or
>> >> get a
>> >> > message from either group.
>> >> >
>> >> > John
>> >> As a OTRS member, do you really believe the language you just used in
>> >> that email as appropriate?
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Seriously. It is beyond depressing to be continually reminded that this
>> > kind
>> > of behavior is still condoned and even expected. I'll be singing off
>> > this
>> > mailing list shortly. Good luck turning things around.
>> >
>> > - causa sui
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > WikiEN-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

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