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Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0

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Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0

WereSpielChequers-2
Currently our default license for EN wiki is CC BY-SA 3.0, but isn't this a
bit odd for IP editors and vanished users? Wouldn't it make more sense if
IP editors were licensing their edits as CC SA, and vanishing users as part
of vanishing were relicensing their edits as CC-SA?

In one case the only attribution we can make is to an IP address, in the
other the editor doesn't want to be attributed.

Changing the default license would then give a more transparent reason for
registering an address. If you would like your edits to be attributed
directly to yourself or indirectly via a nom de plume, then create an
account and your logged in edits will be licensed *CC BY-SA 3.0.*

Regards

WSC
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Re: Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0

Oliver Keyes-4
This is not a conversation for the -en list, this is a conversation
for the lawyers and/or wikimedia-l. Individual projects should not be
messing with licensing, wherever possible; it creates a highly
confusing and contradictory environment.

On 17 August 2015 at 11:04, WereSpielChequers
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Currently our default license for EN wiki is CC BY-SA 3.0, but isn't this a
> bit odd for IP editors and vanished users? Wouldn't it make more sense if
> IP editors were licensing their edits as CC SA, and vanishing users as part
> of vanishing were relicensing their edits as CC-SA?
>
> In one case the only attribution we can make is to an IP address, in the
> other the editor doesn't want to be attributed.
>
> Changing the default license would then give a more transparent reason for
> registering an address. If you would like your edits to be attributed
> directly to yourself or indirectly via a nom de plume, then create an
> account and your logged in edits will be licensed *CC BY-SA 3.0.*
>
> Regards
>
> WSC
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l



--
Oliver Keyes
Count Logula
Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0

Nathan Awrich
On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Oliver Keyes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is not a conversation for the -en list, this is a conversation
> for the lawyers and/or wikimedia-l. Individual projects should not be
> messing with licensing, wherever possible; it creates a highly
> confusing and contradictory environment.
>
>
No danger in a discussion, wherever it happens.
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Re: Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0

Benoit Landry
In reply to this post by WereSpielChequers-2
Some editors already declare on the userpage that their contributions are licensed under something more permissive than the default (such as CC0, PD, etc ), so maybe such a template could be added to userpages or talks of vanished editors.

As for changing the default licensing of IP edits.... Well, a bold suggestion, and good luck with that! Definitely not something a local project can implement though. Perhaps if meta/global consensus is strong enough to petition WMF Legal your idea might get somewhere. I personally cab definitely see the merits of it.

~Benoit / Salvidrim
[Sent from my Nexus 5]

On Aug 17, 2015 11:34 AM, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Oliver Keyes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is not a conversation for the -en list, this is a conversation
> for the lawyers and/or wikimedia-l. Individual projects should not be
> messing with licensing, wherever possible; it creates a highly
> confusing and contradictory environment.
>
>
No danger in a discussion, wherever it happens.
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Re: Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0

Andrew Gray-3
In reply to this post by WereSpielChequers-2
On 17 August 2015 at 16:04, WereSpielChequers
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Currently our default license for EN wiki is CC BY-SA 3.0, but isn't this a
> bit odd for IP editors and vanished users? Wouldn't it make more sense if
> IP editors were licensing their edits as CC SA, and vanishing users as part
> of vanishing were relicensing their edits as CC-SA?

The CC-SA license doesn't exist ;-) Presumably you meant CC-0. I'd
agree with Oliver that changing this would probably be more complexity
than it's worth.

The vanishing users thing is also a bit concerning. I agree that
attributing something to "anon-655345" is a bit silly, but equally I
don't think we can practically insist that a vanishing user is
required to relinquish their copyrights before we let them vanish.

A.

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- Andrew Gray
  [hidden email]

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Re: Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0

Risker
There is no difference in attribution to a vanished user than there is to
any other user who has an account.  I don't understand why anyone would
think otherwise.

Risker

On 17 August 2015 at 16:20, Andrew Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 17 August 2015 at 16:04, WereSpielChequers
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Currently our default license for EN wiki is CC BY-SA 3.0, but isn't
> this a
> > bit odd for IP editors and vanished users? Wouldn't it make more sense if
> > IP editors were licensing their edits as CC SA, and vanishing users as
> part
> > of vanishing were relicensing their edits as CC-SA?
>
> The CC-SA license doesn't exist ;-) Presumably you meant CC-0. I'd
> agree with Oliver that changing this would probably be more complexity
> than it's worth.
>
> The vanishing users thing is also a bit concerning. I agree that
> attributing something to "anon-655345" is a bit silly, but equally I
> don't think we can practically insist that a vanishing user is
> required to relinquish their copyrights before we let them vanish.
>
> A.
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
>   [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Re: Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0

WereSpielChequers-2
In reply to this post by Nathan Awrich
Thanks Nathan,

Whether other projects follow what we do on EN wiki is up to them.
Licensing choices vary by project, EN wiki allows Fair use  which neither
DE wiki nor Commons allows.

Re Risker's point, there is no difference in the current copyright between
vanished users and others, but logically there should be. By attribution
means you want to be attributed, vanishing means you don't. It seems
logical to me that the process of vanishing at least include the option of
waiving attribution.



On 17 August 2015 at 16:34, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Oliver Keyes <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > This is not a conversation for the -en list, this is a conversation
> > for the lawyers and/or wikimedia-l. Individual projects should not be
> > messing with licensing, wherever possible; it creates a highly
> > confusing and contradictory environment.
> >
> >
> No danger in a discussion, wherever it happens.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
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Re: Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0

Risker
There is no such creature as a vanished user. There never has been.  It is
a fallacy that was created based on some internet meme from ancient times
and was designed for websites where attribution was not a condition of
licensing.  All edits are attributed. If one digs deeply enough, and has
the right access levels, one can always find the original account name.  We
should never have pretended that this was a realistic option; what is done
is done, but we should stop pretending now that it's 2015 and we've pretty
much never actually "vanished" anyone. It's not even an option in the
majority of Wikimedia projects.

We need to stop pretending that users can "vanish". They can't. they can be
renamed. Their accounts can be blocked. But there is no such thing as a
vanished user on Wikimedia projects, where the licensing conditions have
always been that all edits are attributed to either a username (which can
be changed to "vanished user 1111111") or an IP address.  Nobody vanishes
from Wikimedia projects; the records are akashic. It's right there in the
licensing conditions, and always has been.

Risker/Anne

On 18 August 2015 at 05:04, WereSpielChequers <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Thanks Nathan,
>
> Whether other projects follow what we do on EN wiki is up to them.
> Licensing choices vary by project, EN wiki allows Fair use  which neither
> DE wiki nor Commons allows.
>
> Re Risker's point, there is no difference in the current copyright between
> vanished users and others, but logically there should be. By attribution
> means you want to be attributed, vanishing means you don't. It seems
> logical to me that the process of vanishing at least include the option of
> waiving attribution.
>
>
>
> On 17 August 2015 at 16:34, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Oliver Keyes <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > This is not a conversation for the -en list, this is a conversation
> > > for the lawyers and/or wikimedia-l. Individual projects should not be
> > > messing with licensing, wherever possible; it creates a highly
> > > confusing and contradictory environment.
> > >
> > >
> > No danger in a discussion, wherever it happens.
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
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