Logo Contests

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Logo Contests

Daniel Bregman
Following the Incubator logo debacle, I thought it pertinent to make sure
that the new logo contests are given the best possible chance of being
noticed. Hence this notice that there are currently three (3) logo
competitions open to voting at Meta.

These are for Wikibooks, Wiktionary and Wikiversity. If you are an admin
there, please put up a sitenotice. If you are not, try to inform people in
those communities. If you are a member of the Foundation, please watch the
voting to make sure that inappropriate logos are not chosen.

Thank you!

-Dbmag9
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Re: Logo Contests

Delphine Ménard
On 9/11/06, Daniel Bregman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Following the Incubator logo debacle, I thought it pertinent to make sure
> that the new logo contests are given the best possible chance of being
> noticed. Hence this notice that there are currently three (3) logo
> competitions open to voting at Meta.
>
> These are for Wikibooks, Wiktionary and Wikiversity. If you are an admin
> there, please put up a sitenotice. If you are not, try to inform people in
> those communities. If you are a member of the Foundation, please watch the
> voting to make sure that inappropriate logos are not chosen.

Links?

Thanx,

Delphine
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Re: Logo Contests

Guillaume Paumier
Good evening,

On 9/11/06, Delphine Ménard <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 9/11/06, Daniel Bregman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Following the Incubator logo debacle, I thought it pertinent to make
> sure
> > that the new logo contests are given the best possible chance of being
> > noticed. Hence this notice that there are currently three (3) logo
> > competitions open to voting at Meta.
> >
> > These are for Wikibooks, Wiktionary and Wikiversity. If you are an admin
> > there, please put up a sitenotice. If you are not, try to inform people
> in
> > those communities. If you are a member of the Foundation, please watch
> the
> > voting to make sure that inappropriate logos are not chosen.
>
> Links?
>

Wikibooks: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikibooks/logo
Wiktionary: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo
Wikiversity: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiversity/logo

g.

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http://fr.wikipedia.org : Resistance is futile — You will be assimilated.
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Re: Logo Contests

Delphine Ménard
On 9/11/06, Guillaume Paumier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Wikibooks: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikibooks/logo
> Wiktionary: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo
> Wikiversity: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiversity/logo


Guillaume, the king of links.

Merci :-)


Delphine
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Re: Logo Contests

Delphine Ménard
In reply to this post by Daniel Bregman
On 9/11/06, Daniel Bregman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Following the Incubator logo debacle, I thought it pertinent to make sure
> that the new logo contests are given the best possible chance of being
> noticed. Hence this notice that there are currently three (3) logo
> competitions open to voting at Meta.
>
> These are for Wikibooks, Wiktionary and Wikiversity. If you are an admin
> there, please put up a sitenotice. If you are not, try to inform people in
> those communities. If you are a member of the Foundation, please watch the
> voting to make sure that inappropriate logos are not chosen.


Thank you for the warning. I'll just say again what I've said a
thousand times. What is it about the Wikimedia logo that is so grand
that people seem to be stuck with it and its colors?

Did imagination stop with the puzzleball? Are all those other projects
not great enough that they deserve their very own identity?

Mind you, there are a few very good logos out there. To keep on the
safe side, I would by definition scratch anything that's remotely
round, green, blue and red, or any of those two in the same logo.

Delphine
definitely puzzled.

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Re: Logo Contests

Gerard Meijssen-3
Delphine Ménard wrote:

> On 9/11/06, Daniel Bregman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> Following the Incubator logo debacle, I thought it pertinent to make sure
>> that the new logo contests are given the best possible chance of being
>> noticed. Hence this notice that there are currently three (3) logo
>> competitions open to voting at Meta.
>>
>> These are for Wikibooks, Wiktionary and Wikiversity. If you are an admin
>> there, please put up a sitenotice. If you are not, try to inform people in
>> those communities. If you are a member of the Foundation, please watch the
>> voting to make sure that inappropriate logos are not chosen.
>>    
>
>
> Thank you for the warning. I'll just say again what I've said a
> thousand times. What is it about the Wikimedia logo that is so grand
> that people seem to be stuck with it and its colors?
>
> Did imagination stop with the puzzleball? Are all those other projects
> not great enough that they deserve their very own identity?
>
> Mind you, there are a few very good logos out there. To keep on the
> safe side, I would by definition scratch anything that's remotely
> round, green, blue and red, or any of those two in the same logo.
>
> Delphine
> definitely puzzled.
Hoi,
It is not necessarily that the Wikipedia or the Meta or the Commons logo
are that great. What they have is some common identity. I think it is a
GOOD thing when the Wikimedia Foundation logos have familiarity. This
does not mean that they have to be the seem but they having commonality
is good.
Thanks,
     GerardM
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Re: Logo Contests

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Delphine Ménard
On 11/09/06, Delphine Ménard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you for the warning. I'll just say again what I've said a
> thousand times. What is it about the Wikimedia logo that is so grand
> that people seem to be stuck with it and its colors?
> Did imagination stop with the puzzleball? Are all those other projects
> not great enough that they deserve their very own identity?


http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/International_logos_%28overview%29

is a good example of why graphic designers are paid money.


- d.
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Re: Logo Contests

Erik Moeller-3
On 9/12/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11/09/06, Delphine Ménard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Thank you for the warning. I'll just say again what I've said a
> > thousand times. What is it about the Wikimedia logo that is so grand
> > that people seem to be stuck with it and its colors?
> > Did imagination stop with the puzzleball? Are all those other projects
> > not great enough that they deserve their very own identity?
>
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/International_logos_%28overview%29
>
> is a good example of why graphic designers are paid money.

To be fair, one should look at the finalists in that contest:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/International_logo_vote/Finalists

Of course, the logo that actually won was the, um, raw version of the
puzzle sphere idea, which has made me somewhat wary of community logo
contests. Nohat saved the day by providing us with a beautiful
implementation of that concept in the last minute.
--
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Erik
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Re: Logo Contests

David Gerard-2
On 12/09/06, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 9/12/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/International_logos_%28overview%29
> > is a good example of why graphic designers are paid money.

> To be fair, one should look at the finalists in that contest:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/International_logo_vote/Finalists
> Of course, the logo that actually won was the, um, raw version of the
> puzzle sphere idea, which has made me somewhat wary of community logo
> contests. Nohat saved the day by providing us with a beautiful
> implementation of that concept in the last minute.


Oh, that's fine, that's "cleanup." ;-)

The logo contest actually did quite well for us there - the first,
second and third place logos now being the logos for Wikipedia,
Wikimedia and Mediawiki. But the raw materials submitted ... *shudder*


- d.
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Re: Logo Contests

Delphine Ménard
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
On 9/11/06, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hoi,
> It is not necessarily that the Wikipedia or the Meta or the Commons logo
> are that great. What they have is some common identity. I think it is a
> GOOD thing when the Wikimedia Foundation logos have familiarity. This
> does not mean that they have to be the seem but they having commonality
> is good.


For someone who's always fighting for other projects than Wikipedia to
be recognized, I find your argument a bit strange.

In a word as in a hundred, I do not agree with you. Coca-Cola (to name
one) has billions (excuse my exaggerating, I am from the South) of
brands, they're all different.

Familiarity in that case is dull. I'd rather have a brilliant and
unique logo for wiktionary than yet again a round green and red thing
that's not trying to capture the uniqueness of the project. We already
have that familiarity within the name, I think that this is enough. If
you ever want Wiktionary or wikibooks to have their own success,
giving them a distinct identity is in my opinion, the first step.
Otherwise, I believe they'll ever only be "the sisters projects".

And to cap it all, there's already enough confusion between Wikipedia,
Wikimedia and Mediawiki as it is. Keeping the same trend in visual
identity for other projects is only reinforcing this impression of
mess and dilutes the message.


Delphine
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Re: Logo Contests

Erik Moeller-3
On 9/12/06, Delphine Ménard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Familiarity in that case is dull.

I agree with Delphine here. The one exception I would make is the
Commons logo, since it has such a strong connection to Wikimedia as a
whole. However, I find the Wikispecies logo disappointingly mundane,
and cringed when I saw a "lamp of knowledge" design for Wikiversity in
the Wikimedia colors.

Unfortunately, without divine intervention, the trend towards dull
logos seems unstoppable. Which will leave us with an inconsistent
mess, as usual. ;-)

WiktionaryZ, by the way, has its own unique logo design:
http://wiktionaryz.org/

Look, it even has a lens flare effect!  ;-)

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Erik
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Re: Logo Contests

Nicholas Moreau
In reply to this post by Daniel Bregman
On another bent to the topic, could I ask the board to pass a resolution
regarding replacement logos saying:

   1. At least five of top ten contributing languages must agree the logo
   should be changed.
   2. If this is satisfied, the Board and/or Communications Committee
   must agree in principal that a logo change would be timely, acceptable and
   warranted.
   3. Logo competitions must be structured from the beginning by
   independent Wikimedians, as the board elections are.

While I agree that Wiktionary and Wikisource needed to be refreshed,
Wikibooks just seems to be riding the trend, and I'm worried that once these
competitions are over, there'll only be more. It would be nice to keep the
project identities steady.

Nick
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Re: Logo Contests

Brad Patrick
I'm not sure I follow your logic here.

I think you are suggesting mixing broad consensus within a language and
consensus across languages.  But why is that relevant to logos per se?

Why is Com Com suddenly the arbiter of what is acceptable?

Who are you accusing of being a WMF insider running elections?  I didn't
even know about them until it was posted to Foundation this week.

-Brad

On 9/12/06, Nicholas Moreau <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On another bent to the topic, could I ask the board to pass a resolution
> regarding replacement logos saying:
>
>    1. At least five of top ten contributing languages must agree the logo
>    should be changed.
>    2. If this is satisfied, the Board and/or Communications Committee
>    must agree in principal that a logo change would be timely, acceptable
> and
>    warranted.
>    3. Logo competitions must be structured from the beginning by
>    independent Wikimedians, as the board elections are.
>
> While I agree that Wiktionary and Wikisource needed to be refreshed,
> Wikibooks just seems to be riding the trend, and I'm worried that once
> these
> competitions are over, there'll only be more. It would be nice to keep the
> project identities steady.
>
> Nick
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



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Re: Logo Contests

Angela-5
In reply to this post by Nicholas Moreau
On 9/13/06, Nicholas Moreau <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On another bent to the topic, could I ask the board to pass a resolution
> regarding replacement logos saying:
>
>    1. At least five of top ten contributing languages must agree the logo
>    should be changed.
>    2. If this is satisfied, the Board and/or Communications Committee
>    must agree in principal that a logo change would be timely, acceptable and
>    warranted.
>    3. Logo competitions must be structured from the beginning by
>    independent Wikimedians, as the board elections are.

I've put this on the Board wiki, though I think it may be more useful
to expand it so the resolution is applicable to new projects
(wikiversity, incubator) as well and those won't have 10 languages by
the time they want a logo.

Angela.
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Re: Logo Contests

Nicholas Moreau
In reply to this post by Daniel Bregman
The reason I suggested multiple languages is because this seems harder to
achieve than broad consensus. Thus if it's harder to start a logo contest,
there's less chance of them starting when they're not needed. Although I'm
not complaining, the selection of my illustration for the Wikisource logo
was thanks to the German Wikipedia's approval vote. The English vote was
still in a state of complete indecision.

I just threw the comcom in because it's involved in Communications, and the
visual identity of the projects seems to fall into its domain. It was just
thrown in.

I'm not saying that there's an insider running the elections. In fact, I
can't even remember who the current overseers are, it's slipped my memory. I
have no objection to the current election or election process whatsoever.

What I meant was that any logo contest needs someone to oversee everything,
so that the contests aren't loosey-goosey, open-ended things like they are
now. Someone to establish rules, to answer questions, to co-ordinate between
languages... but without having a personal interest in one logo or another,
as a regular contributor.

As per Angela's comment, that the resolution should apply to new projects,
I'm not sure why that would be needed. New projects need logos, this
proposal was to stunt the amount of //replacement// logos.

Nick



Message: 9

> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:31:04 -0400
> From: "Brad Patrick" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Logo Contests
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
>         <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I'm not sure I follow your logic here.
>
> I think you are suggesting mixing broad consensus within a language and
> consensus across languages.  But why is that relevant to logos per se?
>
> Why is Com Com suddenly the arbiter of what is acceptable?
>
> Who are you accusing of being a WMF insider running elections?  I didn't
> even know about them until it was posted to Foundation this week.
>
> -Brad
>
> On 9/12/06, Nicholas Moreau <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On another bent to the topic, could I ask the board to pass a resolution
> > regarding replacement logos saying:
> >
> >    1. At least five of top ten contributing languages must agree the
> logo
> >    should be changed.
> >    2. If this is satisfied, the Board and/or Communications Committee
> >    must agree in principal that a logo change would be timely,
> acceptable
> > and
> >    warranted.
> >    3. Logo competitions must be structured from the beginning by
> >    independent Wikimedians, as the board elections are.
> >
> > While I agree that Wiktionary and Wikisource needed to be refreshed,
> > Wikibooks just seems to be riding the trend, and I'm worried that once
> > these
> > competitions are over, there'll only be more. It would be nice to keep
> the
> > project identities steady.
> >
> > Nick
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Brad Patrick
> General Counsel & Interim Executive Director
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> [hidden email]
> 727-231-0101
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 05:34:50 +1000
> From: Angela <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Logo Contests
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
>         <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 9/13/06, Nicholas Moreau <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On another bent to the topic, could I ask the board to pass a resolution
> > regarding replacement logos saying:
> >
> >    1. At least five of top ten contributing languages must agree the
> logo
> >    should be changed.
> >    2. If this is satisfied, the Board and/or Communications Committee
> >    must agree in principal that a logo change would be timely,
> acceptable and
> >    warranted.
> >    3. Logo competitions must be structured from the beginning by
> >    independent Wikimedians, as the board elections are.
>
> I've put this on the Board wiki, though I think it may be more useful
> to expand it so the resolution is applicable to new projects
> (wikiversity, incubator) as well and those won't have 10 languages by
> the time they want a logo.
>
> Angela.
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Re: Logo Contests

Angela-5
On 9/13/06, Nicholas Moreau <[hidden email]> wrote:
> As per Angela's comment, that the resolution should apply to new projects,
> I'm not sure why that would be needed. New projects need logos, this
> proposal was to stunt the amount of //replacement// logos.

But points 2 and 3 may make sense for logos in general, and if there's
going to be a policy, why not have it apply to all logos?

Angela.
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Re: Logo Contests

Birgitte_sb
In reply to this post by Brad Patrick
I think ComCom is being named because I believe they
had the Wikisource logo changed.  The WS logo was not
chosen by contest at all.  And I am not complaining
about this (I do not know why people think the
majority of people at WS are upset about it).  

I think a much simpler solution would be to adopt a
rule that voting may not start on a logo contest until
all active languages have been notified in their own
language.   The work required to get a truly
international logo contest would keep people from
doing these without good reason.  It is also would
prevent someone suddenly comimg to the site one to
find the logo changed without warning.

http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikisource-l/2006-May/000029.html

Birgitte SB

--- Brad Patrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm not sure I follow your logic here.
>
> I think you are suggesting mixing broad consensus
> within a language and
> consensus across languages.  But why is that
> relevant to logos per se?
>
> Why is Com Com suddenly the arbiter of what is
> acceptable?
>
> Who are you accusing of being a WMF insider running
> elections?  I didn't
> even know about them until it was posted to
> Foundation this week.
>
> -Brad
>
> On 9/12/06, Nicholas Moreau
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On another bent to the topic, could I ask the
> board to pass a resolution
> > regarding replacement logos saying:
> >
> >    1. At least five of top ten contributing
> languages must agree the logo
> >    should be changed.
> >    2. If this is satisfied, the Board and/or
> Communications Committee
> >    must agree in principal that a logo change
> would be timely, acceptable
> > and
> >    warranted.
> >    3. Logo competitions must be structured from
> the beginning by
> >    independent Wikimedians, as the board elections
> are.
> >
> > While I agree that Wiktionary and Wikisource
> needed to be refreshed,
> > Wikibooks just seems to be riding the trend, and
> I'm worried that once
> > these
> > competitions are over, there'll only be more. It
> would be nice to keep the
> > project identities steady.
> >
> > Nick
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> >
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

> >
>
>
>
> --
> Brad Patrick
> General Counsel & Interim Executive Director
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> [hidden email]
> 727-231-0101
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


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Re: Logo Contests

Brad Patrick
Well, to take

> It is also would
> prevent someone suddenly comimg to the site one to
> find the logo changed without warning.


That is what it looks like might happen here.

/me is not sure what to think.
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Re: Logo Contests

Birgitte_sb
In reply to this post by Nicholas Moreau


--- Nicholas Moreau <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The reason I suggested multiple languages is because
> this seems harder to
> achieve than broad consensus. Thus if it's harder to
> start a logo contest,
> there's less chance of them starting when they're
> not needed. Although I'm
> not complaining, the selection of my illustration
> for the Wikisource logo
> was thanks to the German Wikipedia's approval vote.
> The English vote was
> still in a state of complete indecision.

I just want to correct one thing here.  There was no
logo contest at the English Wikisource.  The logo
contest was going through difficulties.  So a poll was
started in many of the Wikisource subdomains (de en es
fr he it ja pl) on whether we should change the logo
at all.  "Wikisources' logo is discussed. Now is maybe
the time for change, shall we keep it as is, or launch
a redesign process? please give your input on the
whole affair"  The English poll was inconclusive, but
this was not a logo approval vote.  Other subdomains
had conclusive polls in favor of going forward with
the logo contest, but this did not happen.  The german
wikisource forced the whole issue.  And someone spoke
to developers and had the logo changed without
notifing the various communities.

I do not have a problem with change.  If someone can
convince a developer to make such a change then they
have good reasons.  The thing I really dislike about
what happened is that people on the pt.WS and probably
others thought en.WS had changed their project without
getting any input.  I dislike that a community I am a
part of gets the blame for other people doing a poor
job of international relations.  I also dislike the
fact that non-english speakers had to find out about
the new logo in this way.  I would not enjoy being in
their position and having the whole site just change
one day.  I hope this does not happen with the curent
logo contests.


Birgitte SB

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