London Bid for Wikimania 2013

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London Bid for Wikimania 2013

Edward Saperia
Howdy y'all,

Would anyone be interested in helping out with our bid to hold Wikimania in London in 2013?

We've got a couple of weeks to refine the bid page, and there's lots of little areas that need attention... a fuller description of the venue, more accommodation options, more information on travel in London, a section on GLAM in London, things like that, and I'd be very grateful for any time you might be able to put towards it. We have all the main things in place for the conference, just a question of writing it all up now!

Here's the bid as it stands:

Here's some suggestions for things to do here:

Or another good way is to look at how things have been written up in the competing bids, e.g.:

If you're interested, feel free to dive straight in or [hidden email] if you'd like to discuss the bid. I should also be in #wikimania2013 tonight and tomorrow.

Ed

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

Thomas Dalton
On 31 March 2012 22:10, Edward Saperia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Howdy y'all,
>
> Would anyone be interested in helping out with our bid to hold Wikimania in
> London in 2013?
>
> We've got a couple of weeks to refine the bid page, and there's lots of
> little areas that need attention... a fuller description of the venue, more
> accommodation options, more information on travel in London, a section on
> GLAM in London, things like that, and I'd be very grateful for any time you
> might be able to put towards it. We have all the main things in place for
> the conference, just a question of writing it all up now!

The bidding timeline says:

"30 March 2012 (23:59 UTC): Bidding ends; all major information on the
bid pages must be final."

Some of the things you describe as still needing to be added sound
fairly major to me. Your bid page also says "This bid will lose its
draft status over the weekend of the 31st of March." and that it will
then be translated.

It sounds like you are a little behind schedule.

I think it is very unfortunate that the chapter has allowed two bids
to be developed without any support, rather than picking one and
getting behind it. We now have two bids that, to be honest, aren't
particularly good (I know there are people that have worked very hard
on both bids, but neither is really at the stage it should be by this
point or has the team behind it that it needs). If we had concentrated
on one bid and had had the support of the chapter, we could have had
one bid that was extremely good. I think the board has let us down by
failing to provide strong, decisive leadership.

I haven't looked in detail at what the other bids have produced, so it
is hard to say what the UK's chances of winning are, but they are
certainly lower than they could have been. If one of our bids does
win, I'm sure everyone will rally round and make it a success, but we
could have done much better.

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

HJ Mitchell
Without commenting on any other point or expressing any other opinions wrt either bid, I don't think the board has let us down at all (and I'm hardly known for speaking up in defence of the board!). Having to choose between two bids from cities with strong Wikimedia communities, one of which was built by a sitting trustee, would put the board in a very difficult position, and favouring one bid over the other risked creating division in the community (and even the board itself). 

Harry


From: Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, 31 March 2012, 22:26
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] London Bid for Wikimania 2013

On 31 March 2012 22:10, Edward Saperia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Howdy y'all,
>
> Would anyone be interested in helping out with our bid to hold Wikimania in
> London in 2013?
>
> We've got a couple of weeks to refine the bid page, and there's lots of
> little areas that need attention... a fuller description of the venue, more
> accommodation options, more information on travel in London, a section on
> GLAM in London, things like that, and I'd be very grateful for any time you
> might be able to put towards it. We have all the main things in place for
> the conference, just a question of writing it all up now!

The bidding timeline says:

"30 March 2012 (23:59 UTC): Bidding ends; all major information on the
bid pages must be final."

Some of the things you describe as still needing to be added sound
fairly major to me. Your bid page also says "This bid will lose its
draft status over the weekend of the 31st of March." and that it will
then be translated.

It sounds like you are a little behind schedule.

I think it is very unfortunate that the chapter has allowed two bids
to be developed without any support, rather than picking one and
getting behind it. We now have two bids that, to be honest, aren't
particularly good (I know there are people that have worked very hard
on both bids, but neither is really at the stage it should be by this
point or has the team behind it that it needs). If we had concentrated
on one bid and had had the support of the chapter, we could have had
one bid that was extremely good. I think the board has let us down by
failing to provide strong, decisive leadership.

I haven't looked in detail at what the other bids have produced, so it
is hard to say what the UK's chances of winning are, but they are
certainly lower than they could have been. If one of our bids does
win, I'm sure everyone will rally round and make it a success, but we
could have done much better.

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

Thomas Dalton
On 31 March 2012 22:42, HJ Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Without commenting on any other point or expressing any other opinions wrt
> either bid, I don't think the board has let us down at all (and I'm hardly
> known for speaking up in defence of the board!). Having to choose between
> two bids from cities with strong Wikimedia communities, one of which was
> built by a sitting trustee, would put the board in a very difficult
> position, and favouring one bid over the other risked creating division in
> the community (and even the board itself).

Division in the community is what we have now - we have some people
working on one bid and some people working on another. That's divided.
If the board had chosen one bid to support, we could have all worked
together on that bid. That's undivided.

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

James Farrar
On 31 March 2012 22:57, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 31 March 2012 22:42, HJ Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Without commenting on any other point or expressing any other opinions wrt
> either bid, I don't think the board has let us down at all (and I'm hardly
> known for speaking up in defence of the board!). Having to choose between
> two bids from cities with strong Wikimedia communities, one of which was
> built by a sitting trustee, would put the board in a very difficult
> position, and favouring one bid over the other risked creating division in
> the community (and even the board itself).

Division in the community is what we have now - we have some people
working on one bid and some people working on another. That's divided.
If the board had chosen one bid to support, we could have all worked
together on that bid. That's undivided.

You make the assumption that the people who had worked on the rejected bid would have shaken that rejection off to give their wholehearted support to the chosen bid.

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

AGK-3
On 1 April 2012 00:38, James Farrar <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You make the assumption that the people who had worked on the rejected bid
> would have shaken that rejection off to give their wholehearted support to
> the chosen bid.

If the deadline for bids has passed then the practical issue is moot,
but so far as paid employees of WMUK are concerned I would hope they
are above such rivalry.

--
Anthony (AGK)

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

David Gerard-2
On 1 April 2012 00:42, Anthony (AGK) <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 1 April 2012 00:38, James Farrar <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> You make the assumption that the people who had worked on the rejected bid
>> would have shaken that rejection off to give their wholehearted support to
>> the chosen bid.

> If the deadline for bids has passed then the practical issue is moot,
> but so far as paid employees of WMUK are concerned I would hope they
> are above such rivalry.


Crikey, a win for any UK bid would be a win for WMUK!


- d.

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by AGK-3
On 1 April 2012 00:42, Anthony (AGK) <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 1 April 2012 00:38, James Farrar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You make the assumption that the people who had worked on the rejected bid
>> would have shaken that rejection off to give their wholehearted support to
>> the chosen bid.
>
> If the deadline for bids has passed then the practical issue is moot,
> but so far as paid employees of WMUK are concerned I would hope they
> are above such rivalry.

Paid employees of WMUK haven't been involved in either bid, that's
part of what I'm complaining about. (Richard has been working on the
London one in his spare time, but not as a WMUK employee).

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

AGK-3
On 1 April 2012 01:11, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Paid employees of WMUK haven't been involved in either bid, that's
> part of what I'm complaining about. (Richard has been working on the
> London one in his spare time, but not as a WMUK employee).

Should WMUK not be involved in developing a Wikimania bid? (I don't
follow WM governance very closely, and may misunderstand that aspect
of the Chapter's purpose.)

--
Anthony (AGK)

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

Richard Symonds-3
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
Not... quite. I've been advising on both, as a volunteer, but I can't bring myself to openly support either (as a volunteer or a staff member). It's simply too tricky. Steve Virgin (Bristol) is a fantastic person and a board member with a great bid, and Ed Saperia (London) is a fantastic person and a personal friend with a great bid. It's further complicated by the fact that my wife was involved in the London bid before she was hospitalised, and that Steve is a board member. I honestly believe that Wikimania is best served by coming to the UK, but whether it hits the south-east or south-west is not something I can make a decision on.

I have been doing small 'wikifying' edits on each bid, and explained the process to each side (when they've asked) but nothing more.

To cut a long story short, I - and the chapter - will throw our support behind whichever UK bid gets the support of the judges or the wider community. I don't see it as rivalry - I don't think any of the four office employees do - but as an open process that gives us two chances to win the bid for our nation, rather than just one.
Richard Symonds
Office & Development Manager
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0)207 065 0991

On 01/04/2012 01:11, Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 1 April 2012 00:42, Anthony (AGK) [hidden email] wrote:
On 1 April 2012 00:38, James Farrar [hidden email] wrote:
You make the assumption that the people who had worked on the rejected bid
would have shaken that rejection off to give their wholehearted support to
the chosen bid.
If the deadline for bids has passed then the practical issue is moot,
but so far as paid employees of WMUK are concerned I would hope they
are above such rivalry.
Paid employees of WMUK haven't been involved in either bid, that's
part of what I'm complaining about. (Richard has been working on the
London one in his spare time, but not as a WMUK employee).

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

Richard Symonds-3
In reply to this post by AGK-3
It's the Chapters role to support a successful bid - but the bids
themselves should, we feel, be community-driven, not chapter-driven. The
chapter has a policy that says we cannot do anything that a volunteer
will do - we're here to support a volunteer-run bid with funding, advice
and staff.

Richard Symonds
Office&  Development Manager
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0)207 065 0991


On 01/04/2012 02:20, Anthony (AGK) wrote:
> On 1 April 2012 01:11, Thomas Dalton<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Paid employees of WMUK haven't been involved in either bid, that's
>> part of what I'm complaining about. (Richard has been working on the
>> London one in his spare time, but not as a WMUK employee).
> Should WMUK not be involved in developing a Wikimania bid? (I don't
> follow WM governance very closely, and may misunderstand that aspect
> of the Chapter's purpose.)
>

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

Jonathan Cardy
I've not been part of either team, though as someone who has been to three Wikimanias I've given some help to both. But then I've read most bids from the last couple of years and made suggestions or copyedits to practically all of them.

I'm not convinced that it is good for a chapter to host Wikimania, I think there is a significant risk of volunteer burnout and of costs falling on the chapter - though as things stand the UK can afford the latter. There's also the geographic argument, of the five venues 2008-12 two are in the Americas and the other three - Alexandria, Gdansk and Haifa, are all in this part of the world.  So there is a strong argument that in 2013 Wikimania should go to the Far East, which is one reason why Hong Kong has frontrunner status. Hence my preference in the discussions last year that if we were to bid we should do so for 2014.

As for using chapter resources to win a bid against other chapters, we should remember the arguments going on about funds dissemination and centralisation. If the UK as one of the few chapters allowed to take part in the fundraiser were to use its extra financial resources to win a bid against other chapters, then there is a risk that some chapters, especially the losing chapters, would see more merit in a globally centralised fundraising model.

But this is pre-empting the discussions scheduled for our AGM - by then we will know if either UK bid has succeeded or if Wikimania is going to the Far East in 2013. If we don't win this year, and assuming Naples won't either, then if we want to bid for 2014 we should be in a position to put in at least one strong bid as strong as this year, and maybe stronger if the team can be kept and we can learn from the process.

WSC
 

On 1 April 2012 02:27, Richard Symonds <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's the Chapters role to support a successful bid - but the bids themselves should, we feel, be community-driven, not chapter-driven. The chapter has a policy that says we cannot do anything that a volunteer will do - we're here to support a volunteer-run bid with funding, advice and staff.

Richard Symonds
Office&  Development Manager

Wikimedia UK
<a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29207%20065%200991" value="+442070650991" target="_blank">+44 (0)207 065 0991


On 01/04/2012 02:20, Anthony (AGK) wrote:
On 1 April 2012 01:11, Thomas Dalton<[hidden email]>  wrote:
Paid employees of WMUK haven't been involved in either bid, that's
part of what I'm complaining about. (Richard has been working on the
London one in his spare time, but not as a WMUK employee).
Should WMUK not be involved in developing a Wikimania bid? (I don't
follow WM governance very closely, and may misunderstand that aspect
of the Chapter's purpose.)


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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

Gordon Joly
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
On 01/04/2012 00:50, David Gerard wrote:
> Crikey, a win for any UK bid would be a win for WMUK!
And the community?

Gordo


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Gordon Joly
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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

David Gerard-2
On 1 April 2012 10:41, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 01/04/2012 00:50, David Gerard wrote:

>> Crikey, a win for any UK bid would be a win for WMUK!

> And the community?


Well, *yes*, really obviously. However, the post I was replying to
specifically concerned WMUK.


- d.

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

Chris Keating-2
In reply to this post by Gordon Joly
As Richard says, we took the position that we will support volunteer-led bids, but wouldn't drive one as a chapter.  There are lots of reasons why it would be great to have Wikimania in the UK, but It's not something that is vital for our future as a chapter, and it's not something that's come up as a strategic priority for our development. 

We still don't know what role Wikimedia UK would end up playing if one of the UK bids was successful and where the boundaries would lie between the bid team, the Foundation, and the Chapter. We would obviously be involved, but would need to be involved in a way which doesn't mean all our other work goes on hold for 12 months of Wikimania preparations.

Chris

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Re: London Bid for Wikimania 2013

Gordon Joly
In reply to this post by AGK-3
On 01/04/2012 02:20, Anthony (AGK) wrote:
> Should WMUK not be involved in developing a Wikimania bid? (I don't
> follow WM governance very closely, and may misunderstand that aspect
> of the Chapter's purpose.)
>
Job demarcation. WMUK may not take on a task that volunteer could do.

Gordo

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