Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

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Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia

It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.

 

Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are lagging behind like nothing.

 

Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali

 

Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps getting adequate content and how do we do that?

 

Thanks and Regards

Mahitgar

 

  



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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Shiju Alex
Hi,
 
I am from Malayalam Wikipedia. Since you have mentioned about Malyalam wikipedia I would like to discuss some thing about the article count race (Indian language wikipedias in particular).
 
 
 
for the sake of increasing the number of articles in a wiki will not increase the quality of a wikipedia or will not do any thing good for the language also.
 
If we would have adopted one of the above techiques we would have been well ahead in the number of articles, since malayalam wikipedia has the maximum number of registered users among all the indian language wikipedias (More than 4400).
 
Please go through the various quality parameters listed in http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias, for an understanding about various indian langauage wikipedias.
 
 
Regards
 
Shiju Alex
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
On 1/15/08, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <[hidden email]> wrote:

It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.

 

Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are lagging behind like nothing.

 

Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali

 

Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps getting adequate content and how do we do that?

 

Thanks and Regards

Mahitgar

 

  



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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Kolhapuri
Hi,
     I think we should take whatever has been written in the two mails below positively.
We don't need to pinpoint bad things about other language wikipedias at this stage while this group is just in formation stage.

1> Indian language Wikipedias don't have enough quality articles.
2> We need more contributors to add more quality articles.
3> To attract people to Wikipedias we need a valuable information to be already present in them.
     Now how do we do this?
    If you have some ideas that might work in Indian scenario please share them, especially if you have seen them working on your Wikipedia.
 
e.g  Shiju Alex can tell us how ml wikipedia has been able to achieve so many registered users?

Regards,
kolhapuri
mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:कोल्हापुरी

On Jan 16, 2008 9:52 AM, Shiju Alex <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
 
I am from Malayalam Wikipedia. Since you have mentioned about Malyalam wikipedia I would like to discuss some thing about the article count race (Indian language wikipedias in particular).
 
 
 
for the sake of increasing the number of articles in a wiki will not increase the quality of a wikipedia or will not do any thing good for the language also.
 
If we would have adopted one of the above techiques we would have been well ahead in the number of articles, since malayalam wikipedia has the maximum number of registered users among all the indian language wikipedias (More than 4400).
 
Please go through the various quality parameters listed in http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias, for an understanding about various indian langauage wikipedias.
 
 
Regards
 
Shiju Alex
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
On 1/15/08, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <[hidden email]> wrote:

It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.

 

Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are lagging behind like nothing.

 

Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali

 

Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps getting adequate content and how do we do that?

 

Thanks and Regards

Mahitgar

 

  



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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Hari Prasad Nadig
In reply to this post by Shiju Alex
On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 09:52 +0530, Shiju Alex wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> I am from Malayalam Wikipedia. Since you have mentioned about Malyalam
> wikipedia I would like to discuss some thing about the article count
> race (Indian language wikipedias in particular).
>  
>  
>       * Creating thosands of short pages like this
>         <a href="http://mr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%">http://mr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%
>         E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%
>         B7:Shortpages&amp;limit=1000&amp;offset=0
>       * Or orphaned pages like this
>         <a href="http://mr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%">http://mr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%
>         E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%
>         B7:Lonelypages&amp;limit=1000&amp;offset=0
>       * Or copying content from english wikipedia like this
>         http://te.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B0%AA%E0%B0%A6%E0%B0%BF
>  
> for the sake of increasing the number of articles in a wiki will not
> increase the quality of a wikipedia or will not do any thing good for
> the language also.


I agree with Shiju here. I've noticed the trend of articles being
created just for the sake of numbers particularly in Marathi and Bengali
Wiki. Looking at numbers may be fascinating, but without even the basic
quality in content the respective wiki might loose out.

  - Hari Prasad


>


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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Hari Prasad Nadig
In reply to this post by Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 20:28 +0530, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia
wrote:

> It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language
> wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow
> given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective
> states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India
> centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.
>
> Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are
> lagging behind like nothing.
>
> Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old
> languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali
>
> Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but
> statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum
> 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps
> getting adequate content and how do we do that?
>

I don't know what to make out of your first statement, really. It would
be stupid to say what you've said.

It might sound rude, but it would be nice if you do some homework before
writing vaguely like this.

None of the wikis you have mentioned are "slow". They have much better
ratio of quality content to stubs which is what the projects need in
order to grow. An infinite array of stubs isn't going to motivate new
visitors to become editors. Instead, it might just do the opposite.

Literacy levels or IT exposure has nothing significant to do with how
respective language Wikipedias are faring.

The challenge of motivating more visitors to become editors has to be
addressed with a much different approach. There are technical barriers.
There are differences in culture that affect the way the projects are
received by the native speakers of each language. But I'd rather not
discuss that in a thread that started with some poorly formed
observation.

  - h.p.



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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
When you say "there are technical barriers", what technical barriers? We have for instance been working hard on getting a better localisation framework. BetaWiki is clearly superior. It now shows pointers to what a message is used for. It allows for the use of "gettext" files. I am really happy to see that for several languages from the Indian subcontinent this has been taken up. Consequently the use of Commons has been improved because the user interface of these languages is improving. I have noticed Bengali, Gujarati among, I have failed to notice Hindi for instance.

What other technical barriers are there that we can help with? I have read in mailing lists that not enough complaints are received from Asia and consequently developers are not aware about issues. In one instance there was an issue with performance and once this was noticed, the performance in Asia is said to have increased substantially as a result.

Thanks,
     GerardM

On Jan 16, 2008 7:50 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 20:28 +0530, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia
wrote:
> It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language

> wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow
> given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective
> states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India
> centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.
>
> Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are
> lagging behind like nothing.
>
> Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old
> languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali
>
> Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but
> statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum
> 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps
> getting adequate content and how do we do that?
>

I don't know what to make out of your first statement, really. It would
be stupid to say what you've said.

It might sound rude, but it would be nice if you do some homework before
writing vaguely like this.

None of the wikis you have mentioned are "slow". They have much better
ratio of quality content to stubs which is what the projects need in
order to grow. An infinite array of stubs isn't going to motivate new
visitors to become editors. Instead, it might just do the opposite.

Literacy levels or IT exposure has nothing significant to do with how
respective language Wikipedias are faring.

The challenge of motivating more visitors to become editors has to be
addressed with a much different approach. There are technical barriers.
There are differences in culture that affect the way the projects are
received by the native speakers of each language. But I'd rather not
discuss that in a thread that started with some poorly formed
observation.

 - h.p.



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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Hari Prasad Nadig
On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 10:05 +0100, Gerard Meijssen wrote:

> Hoi,
> When you say "there are technical barriers", what technical barriers?
> We have for instance been working hard on getting a better
> localisation framework. BetaWiki is clearly superior. It now shows
> pointers to what a message is used for. It allows for the use of
> "gettext" files. I am really happy to see that for several languages
> from the Indian subcontinent this has been taken up. Consequently the
> use of Commons has been improved because the user interface of these
> languages is improving. I have noticed Bengali, Gujarati among, I have
> failed to notice Hindi for instance.
>
> What other technical barriers are there that we can help with? I have
> read in mailing lists that not enough complaints are received from
> Asia and consequently developers are not aware about issues. In one
> instance there was an issue with performance and once this was
> noticed, the performance in Asia is said to have increased
> substantially as a result.
>
> Thanks,
>      GerardM

Gerard,

   The technical barriers for users are with respect to input
(keying-in) in respective languages and reading them on their computers.
There are several old standards in place to which people are accustomed
to. Since we use Unicode on Wikis, it takes time for people to get
accustomed to the new encoding (for them), new setup in terms of
software they use on their machines.

   There are rendering issues on Operating Systems, issues with default
fonts provided on Operating Systems. The problems are far beyond
localisation - in fact localisation of interface is not an issue at all
presently.

   Let us discuss these in detail sometime on a separate thread.

Cheers,

   - Hari Prasad

   

 


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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Pradeep Makineni
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
One of the big technical barrier is inputting the Indic text, I think many users still does not know that there are indic input editors which can transliterate english text into their mother tongue.  Even if they knew that, some won't like to copy-paste from these editors into the browser to edit wiki pages. They have to switch between the editors many times in-order to edit a single page.

Users of some of the Indian language wikis have over come this issue by incorporating custom javascripts, which can transliterate english text while typing into their mother tongue, into the mediawiki namespace and attached that script to the wiki edit box, and text boxes where ever necessary.  It will surely help the editors of indian language wikipedias if there indic input support for all the indian language wikis.

Padma is one of the open source project which can transliterate many Indian Languages. Incorporating transliteration into the mediawiki itself would greatly improve the usability of the indian language wikis.


On Jan 16, 2008 2:35 PM, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hoi,
When you say "there are technical barriers", what technical barriers? We have for instance been working hard on getting a better localisation framework. BetaWiki is clearly superior. It now shows pointers to what a message is used for. It allows for the use of "gettext" files. I am really happy to see that for several languages from the Indian subcontinent this has been taken up. Consequently the use of Commons has been improved because the user interface of these languages is improving. I have noticed Bengali, Gujarati among, I have failed to notice Hindi for instance.

What other technical barriers are there that we can help with? I have read in mailing lists that not enough complaints are received from Asia and consequently developers are not aware about issues. In one instance there was an issue with performance and once this was noticed, the performance in Asia is said to have increased substantially as a result.

Thanks,
     GerardM


On Jan 16, 2008 7:50 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 20:28 +0530, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia
wrote:
> It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language

> wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow
> given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective
> states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India
> centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.
>
> Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are
> lagging behind like nothing.
>
> Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old
> languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali
>
> Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but
> statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum
> 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps
> getting adequate content and how do we do that?
>

I don't know what to make out of your first statement, really. It would
be stupid to say what you've said.

It might sound rude, but it would be nice if you do some homework before
writing vaguely like this.

None of the wikis you have mentioned are "slow". They have much better
ratio of quality content to stubs which is what the projects need in
order to grow. An infinite array of stubs isn't going to motivate new
visitors to become editors. Instead, it might just do the opposite.

Literacy levels or IT exposure has nothing significant to do with how
respective language Wikipedias are faring.

The challenge of motivating more visitors to become editors has to be
addressed with a much different approach. There are technical barriers.
There are differences in culture that affect the way the projects are
received by the native speakers of each language. But I'd rather not
discuss that in a thread that started with some poorly formed
observation.

 - h.p.



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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Hari Prasad Nadig

On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 15:07 +0530, Pradeep Makineni wrote:
> One of the big technical barrier is inputting the Indic text, I think
> many users still does not know that there are indic input editors
> which can transliterate english text into their mother tongue.  Even
> if they knew that, some won't like to copy-paste from these editors
> into the browser to edit wiki pages. They have to switch between the
> editors many times in-order to edit a single page.

true.

>
> Users of some of the Indian language wikis have over come this issue
> by incorporating custom javascripts, which can transliterate english
> text while typing into their mother tongue, into the mediawiki
> namespace and attached that script to the wiki edit box, and text
> boxes where ever necessary.  It will surely help the editors of indian
> language wikipedias if there indic input support for all the indian
> language wikis.

Yes, the added script has been effective in bringing new users. But
several regular contributors who use IMEs available with the Operating
System find it nagging at times to switch it off every time while
editing. There are also several disadvantages.

>
> Padma is one of the open source project which can transliterate many
> Indian Languages. Incorporating transliteration into the mediawiki
> itself would greatly improve the usability of the indian language
> wikis.

We should note that not everyone fancies transliteration and several
keyboard layouts (mapping) are in use for each language. For instance,
for Kannada alone, people use Baraha (transliteration like), KGP layout,
Inscript and the layout that was in use in typewriters.

   - h.p.



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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Eukesh Ranjit
In reply to this post by Pradeep Makineni
Although I am not a programmer, I had worked hard for this phonetic transliteration thing. I think this problem has been solved (at least partially) by now. I had incorporated this system even in places like Oriya, Panjabi and Assamese where there are virtually no users. 
Except for places where the admins did not want it installed, it is present in all Indian languages except Urdu, Sindhi and Pastun which are written in Nastaleeq (I dont know the basics of Nastaleeq and am trying to learn basics).
 
About "technical" problems, these are faced by almost all non-Latin wikipedias. Among them, those faced by Brahmic derived are very similar. If people here are interested, we can form a new group for "Brahmic derived abugida using wikipedias". That way, we can solve these issues in a broader ground with help/cooperation from Nepalese, Bangladeshi, Thai, Lao, Burmese, Singhalese, Khmer, Bhutanese and Tibetan wikipedians as well.    

Pradeep Makineni <[hidden email]> wrote:
One of the big technical barrier is inputting the Indic text, I think many users still does not know that there are indic input editors which can transliterate english text into their mother tongue.  Even if they knew that, some won't like to copy-paste from these editors into the browser to edit wiki pages. They have to switch between the editors many times in-order to edit a single page.

Users of some of the Indian language wikis have over come this issue by incorporating custom javascripts, which can transliterate english text while typing into their mother tongue, into the mediawiki namespace and attached that script to the wiki edit box, and text boxes where ever necessary.  It will surely help the editors of indian language wikipedias if there indic input support for all the indian language wikis.

Padma is one of the open source project which can transliterate many Indian Languages. Incorporating transliteration into the mediawiki itself would greatly improve the usability of the indian language wikis.


On Jan 16, 2008 2:35 PM, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hoi,
When you say "there are technical barriers", what technical barriers? We have for instance been working hard on getting a better localisation framework. BetaWiki is clearly superior. It now shows pointers to what a message is used for. It allows for the use of "gettext" files. I am really happy to see that for several languages from the Indian subcontinent this has been taken up. Consequently the use of Commons has been improved because the user interface of these languages is improving. I have noticed Bengali, Gujarati among, I have failed to notice Hindi for instance.

What other technical barriers are there that we can help with? I have read in mailing lists that not enough complaints are received from Asia and consequently developers are not aware about issues. In one instance there was an issue with performance and once this was noticed, the performance in Asia is said to have increased substantially as a result.

Thanks,
     GerardM


On Jan 16, 2008 7:50 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 20:28 +0530, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia
wrote:
> It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language

> wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow
> given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective
> states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India
> centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.
>
> Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are
> lagging behind like nothing.
>
> Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old
> languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali
>
> Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but
> statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum
> 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps
> getting adequate content and how do we do that?
>

I don't know what to make out of your first statement, really. It would
be stupid to say what you've said.

It might sound rude, but it would be nice if you do some homework before
writing vaguely like this.

None of the wikis you have mentioned are "slow". They have much better
ratio of quality content to stubs which is what the projects need in
order to grow. An infinite array of stubs isn't going to motivate new
visitors to become editors. Instead, it might just do the opposite.

Literacy levels or IT exposure has nothing significant to do with how
respective language Wikipedias are faring.

The challenge of motivating more visitors to become editors has to be
addressed with a much different approach. There are technical barriers.
There are differences in culture that affect the way the projects are
received by the native speakers of each language. But I'd rather not
discuss that in a thread that started with some poorly formed
observation.

 - h.p.



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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Shiju Alex
In reply to this post by Kolhapuri
As Kolhapuri had pointed out we need some postive discussion on this topic.
 
1> Indian language Wikipedias don't have enough quality articles.
 
 
Indian language wikipedias have quality articles. I was just pointing to some of the strategies adopted by some Indian wikies to increase the article count.
 
Creating new articles using bots, or creating thousands and thousands of short pages as I have pointed out earlier, or copying content from english wiki  will eventualy lose the quality of the wiki. More over it will not motivate a new user to become a wiki editor.
 
Another disadvantage us it will not attract the readers. If the wiki that we are creating is not helping a user to find the required information and we are still redirecting the user to english wiki then there is some thing wrong.
 
Most of us need to read the below policies:
 
 
 
 
More Later
Regards
Shiju Alex
 
 
On 1/16/08, Kolhapuri <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
     I think we should take whatever has been written in the two mails below positively.
We don't need to pinpoint bad things about other language wikipedias at this stage while this group is just in formation stage.

1> Indian language Wikipedias don't have enough quality articles.
2> We need more contributors to add more quality articles.
3> To attract people to Wikipedias we need a valuable information to be already present in them.
     Now how do we do this?
    If you have some ideas that might work in Indian scenario please share them, especially if you have seen them working on your Wikipedia.
 
e.g  Shiju Alex can tell us how ml wikipedia has been able to achieve so many registered users?

Regards,
kolhapuri
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:" target="_blank">mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:कोल्हापुरी


On Jan 16, 2008 9:52 AM, Shiju Alex <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
 
I am from Malayalam Wikipedia. Since you have mentioned about Malyalam wikipedia I would like to discuss some thing about the article count race (Indian language wikipedias in particular).
 
 
  • Creating thosands of short pages like this <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://mr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B7:Shortpages&amp;limit=1000&amp;offset=0" target="_blank"> http://mr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B7:Shortpages&limit=1000&offset=0
  • Or orphaned pages like this <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://mr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B7:Lonelypages&amp;limit=1000&amp;offset=0" target="_blank"> http://mr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B7:Lonelypages&limit=1000&offset=0
  • Or copying content from english wikipedia like this <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://te.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B0%AA%E0%B0%A6%E0%B0%BF" target="_blank">http://te.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B0%AA%E0%B0%A6%E0%B0%BF
 
for the sake of increasing the number of articles in a wiki will not increase the quality of a wikipedia or will not do any thing good for the language also.
 
If we would have adopted one of the above techiques we would have been well ahead in the number of articles, since malayalam wikipedia has the maximum number of registered users among all the indian language wikipedias (More than 4400).
 
Please go through the various quality parameters listed in <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias" target="_blank">http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias , for an understanding about various indian langauage wikipedias.
 
 
Regards
 
Shiju Alex
 
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Shijualex" target="_blank">http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Shijualex
 
 
 
 
 

 
On 1/15/08, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <[hidden email]> wrote:

It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.

 

Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are lagging behind like nothing.

 

Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali

 

Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps getting adequate content and how do we do that?

 

Thanks and Regards

Mahitgar

 

  



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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
These are tired arguments and they are not universally shared. They do, and that is the worst part of it, not provide any strategy to providing more information to our readers. If you are interested in what you can do to attract more readers, then you need to analyse what people are actually reading. This gives you a clue on where you should make the most efforts in order to increase the number of readers.

Experience in other languages learns that people are most interested in three things (in no special order) sex, sport and news. As Wikipedia is not really about all three, what you can do is write background articles to sports events or to the news. When for instance the Three Gorges Dam in China is in the news, write about it, the Yangtze, China, whatever aspect you have not touched yet of the aricle or just extend the article, when India plays Britain in the Oval, write an article about the stadium, the city it is in etc. When you do this consequently for some time, you will find that your coverage of the news, sports is increasing and the number of readers increases as a result.

An other strategy to make people more at home is by making sure that the user interface is localised. I am really happy that the localisation for several Indian languages is being worked on in BetaWiki. Surprising is that so few people have indicated to be interested in the bounty. Is thisbecause they have not signaled their intend to do so.. ?

Ok these are two constructive strategies to get more readers. They come at a cost; you will have to work on content that is likely to get readers in stead of working on your favourite subject. With more readers you are likely to get more people who accidentally hit the "edit" button... Please be nice to them, be courteous and by doing this, you are implemented a third strategy :) because more editors leads to more content and more readers.

Thanks,
    GerardM


On Jan 19, 2008 10:44 AM, Shiju Alex <[hidden email]> wrote:
As Kolhapuri had pointed out we need some postive discussion on this topic.
 
1> Indian language Wikipedias don't have enough quality articles.
 
 
Indian language wikipedias have quality articles. I was just pointing to some of the strategies adopted by some Indian wikies to increase the article count.
 
Creating new articles using bots, or creating thousands and thousands of short pages as I have pointed out earlier, or copying content from english wiki  will eventualy lose the quality of the wiki. More over it will not motivate a new user to become a wiki editor.
 
Another disadvantage us it will not attract the readers. If the wiki that we are creating is not helping a user to find the required information and we are still redirecting the user to english wiki then there is some thing wrong.
 
Most of us need to read the below policies:
 
 
 
 
More Later
Regards
Shiju Alex
 
 
On 1/16/08, Kolhapuri <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
     I think we should take whatever has been written in the two mails below positively.
We don't need to pinpoint bad things about other language wikipedias at this stage while this group is just in formation stage.

1> Indian language Wikipedias don't have enough quality articles.
2> We need more contributors to add more quality articles.
3> To attract people to Wikipedias we need a valuable information to be already present in them.
     Now how do we do this?
    If you have some ideas that might work in Indian scenario please share them, especially if you have seen them working on your Wikipedia.
 
e.g  Shiju Alex can tell us how ml wikipedia has been able to achieve so many registered users?

Regards,
kolhapuri
mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:कोल्हापुरी


On Jan 16, 2008 9:52 AM, Shiju Alex <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
 
I am from Malayalam Wikipedia. Since you have mentioned about Malyalam wikipedia I would like to discuss some thing about the article count race (Indian language wikipedias in particular).
 
 
 
for the sake of increasing the number of articles in a wiki will not increase the quality of a wikipedia or will not do any thing good for the language also.
 
If we would have adopted one of the above techiques we would have been well ahead in the number of articles, since malayalam wikipedia has the maximum number of registered users among all the indian language wikipedias (More than 4400).
 
Please go through the various quality parameters listed in http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias , for an understanding about various indian langauage wikipedias.
 
 
Regards
 
Shiju Alex
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
On 1/15/08, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <[hidden email]> wrote:

It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.

 

Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are lagging behind like nothing.

 

Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali

 

Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps getting adequate content and how do we do that?

 

Thanks and Regards

Mahitgar

 

  



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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia
In reply to this post by Hari Prasad Nadig

I am just interested in sharing positive steps which we can learn from each other.Realy what motivated me in writing about the issue were not article race comparison.The fact is I am just concerned with growth of all Indian Language Wikipedias.I did not compare any wikipedia with Mr wiki which I belong to because I am well aware of Mr.Wikis limitations too.

Certainly at least we can share best of each wikipedias aproaches and I am realy pleased to know Malyalam WIkipedia is well above 4400 membership ,I am quite interested in knowing how did they achive this .

 

And my concern for Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi   wikis remains.

 

 

Thanks and Regards

--- On Wed, 16/1/08, Hari Prasad Nadig <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Hari Prasad Nadig <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, 16 January, 2008, 12:20 PM

On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 20:28 +0530, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia
wrote:
> It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language
> wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow
> given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective
> states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India
> centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.
> 
> Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are
> lagging behind like nothing.
> 
> Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old
> languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali
> 
> Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but
> statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum
> 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps
> getting adequate content and how do we do that?
> 

I don't know what to make out of your first statement, really. It would
be stupid to say what you've said. 

It might sound rude, but it would be nice if you do some homework before
writing vaguely like this. 

None of the wikis you have mentioned are "slow". They have much
better
ratio of quality content to stubs which is what the projects need in
order to grow. An infinite array of stubs isn't going to motivate new
visitors to become editors. Instead, it might just do the opposite.

Literacy levels or IT exposure has nothing significant to do with how
respective language Wikipedias are faring. 

The challenge of motivating more visitors to become editors has to be
addressed with a much different approach. There are technical barriers.
There are differences in culture that affect the way the projects are
received by the native speakers of each language. But I'd rather not
discuss that in a thread that started with some poorly formed
observation. 

  - h.p.


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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Shiju Alex
And my concern for Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi   wikis remains

 

Your concern about the above wikies are true (especially about Oriya and Punjabi wikies). Infact, Oriya and Punjabi wikies are the first indian language wikies. But even after 5 years, the article count in those wikies is below 1000 and the number of registered users is hardly 100.

Certainly at least we can share best of each wikipedias aproaches and I am realy pleased to know Malyalam WIkipedia is well above 4400 membership ,I am quite interested in knowing how did they achive this .
 
In Malayalam wikipedia we made use of all the opportunities to popularise the malayalam wikipedia and its sister projects. 

We tried to reach maximum numer of people. We got help from regional language newspapers. We used the regional language blogs to reach to out to people. That is the reason why we got more users.
 
Give importance to other wiki projects also when you are reaching out to people. Especially include wikisource and wiktionary in the priority list. There are lot of people who are not interested in wikipedia but are very much interested in projects like wikisource and wiktionary. Both these wikies are going to be the online backbone for each regional language. Wikipedia itself can use wikisource as a reference library. 
 
Try to make understand the regional language newspapers about moving to unicode for their online edition. That will really help wikipedia. Most of the Malayalam newspapers are now planning to move to Unicode. Some online portals are already moved.
 

In malayalam hardly anyone uses Baraha for transleteration. We use varamozhi, keyman or some other customized tools.

In the long run it is not good to give too much importance to transliteration tools for inputing the text. An experienced user must be able to use inscript tool which is integrated in all operating systems. In malayalam I have seen people using their own custom keyborad layouts also for inputting the text apart from the inscript and transilteration.
 
 
Regards
Shiju Alex
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Shijualex" target="_blank">http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Shijualex

 


On 1/20/08, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am just interested in sharing positive steps which we can learn from each other.Realy what motivated me in writing about the issue were not article race comparison.The fact is I am just concerned with growth of all Indian Language Wikipedias.I did not compare any wikipedia with Mr wiki which I belong to because I am well aware of Mr.Wikis limitations too.

Certainly at least we can share best of each wikipedias aproaches and I am realy pleased to know Malyalam WIkipedia is well above 4400 membership ,I am quite interested in knowing how did they achive this .

 

And my concern for Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi   wikis remains.

 

 

Thanks and Regards

--- On Wed, 16/1/08, Hari Prasad Nadig <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Hari Prasad Nadig <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, 16 January, 2008, 12:20 PM


On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 20:28 +0530, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia
wrote:
> It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language
> wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow
> given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective
> states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India
> centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.
> 
> Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are
> lagging behind like nothing.
> 
> Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old
> languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali
> 
> Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but
> statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum
> 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps
> getting adequate content and how do we do that?
> 

I don't know what to make out of your first statement, really. It would
be stupid to say what you've said. 

It might sound rude, but it would be nice if you do some homework before
writing vaguely like this. 

None of the wikis you have mentioned are "slow". They have much
better
ratio of quality content to stubs which is what the projects need in
order to grow. An infinite array of stubs isn't going to motivate new
visitors to become editors. Instead, it might just do the opposite.

Literacy levels or IT exposure has nothing significant to do with how
respective language Wikipedias are faring. 

The challenge of motivating more visitors to become editors has to be
addressed with a much different approach. There are technical barriers.
There are differences in culture that affect the way the projects are
received by the native speakers of each language. But I'd rather not
discuss that in a thread that started with some poorly formed
observation. 

  - h.p.


Save all your chat conversations. <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_webmessenger_3/*http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php" target="_blank">Find them online.
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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Shiju Alex
Give special importance to blogs in your regional language while you try to reach out to people . There you got the people who are are already familiar with typing in the respective regional language (and unicode of course).
 
Thanks
 
Shiju Alex
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Shijualex" target="_blank">http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Shijualex
 

 
On 1/20/08, Shiju Alex <[hidden email]> wrote:
And my concern for Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi   wikis remains

 

Your concern about the above wikies are true (especially about Oriya and Punjabi wikies). Infact, Oriya and Punjabi wikies are the first indian language wikies. But even after 5 years, the article count in those wikies is below 1000 and the number of registered users is hardly 100.

Certainly at least we can share best of each wikipedias aproaches and I am realy pleased to know Malyalam WIkipedia is well above 4400 membership ,I am quite interested in knowing how did they achive this .
 
In Malayalam wikipedia we made use of all the opportunities to popularise the malayalam wikipedia and its sister projects. 

We tried to reach maximum numer of people. We got help from regional language newspapers. We used the regional language blogs to reach to out to people. That is the reason why we got more users.
 
Give importance to other wiki projects also when you are reaching out to people. Especially include wikisource and wiktionary in the priority list. There are lot of people who are not interested in wikipedia but are very much interested in projects like wikisource and wiktionary. Both these wikies are going to be the online backbone for each regional language. Wikipedia itself can use wikisource as a reference library. 
 
Try to make understand the regional language newspapers about moving to unicode for their online edition. That will really help wikipedia. Most of the Malayalam newspapers are now planning to move to Unicode. Some online portals are already moved.
 

In malayalam hardly anyone uses Baraha for transleteration. We use varamozhi, keyman or some other customized tools.

In the long run it is not good to give too much importance to transliteration tools for inputing the text. An experienced user must be able to use inscript tool which is integrated in all operating systems. In malayalam I have seen people using their own custom keyborad layouts also for inputting the text apart from the inscript and transilteration.
 
 
Regards
Shiju Alex
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Shijualex" target="_blank">http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Shijualex

 


On 1/20/08, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am just interested in sharing positive steps which we can learn from each other.Realy what motivated me in writing about the issue were not article race comparison.The fact is I am just concerned with growth of all Indian Language Wikipedias.I did not compare any wikipedia with Mr wiki which I belong to because I am well aware of Mr.Wikis limitations too.

Certainly at least we can share best of each wikipedias aproaches and I am realy pleased to know Malyalam WIkipedia is well above 4400 membership ,I am quite interested in knowing how did they achive this .

 

And my concern for Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi   wikis remains.

 

 

Thanks and Regards

--- On Wed, 16/1/08, Hari Prasad Nadig <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Hari Prasad Nadig <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, 16 January, 2008, 12:20 PM


On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 20:28 +0530, Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia
wrote:
> It is quite ununderstandable why Wikipedias like Kannada Language
> wikipedia and Gujrathi and Malyalam language wikipedia are so slow
> given the fact that literacy levels and IT exposure in respective
> states is quite OK and they are immensely contributing to India
> centric articles on English wikipedia in big way.
> 
> Important regional Languages Assamese ,Oriya , Punjabi  wikipedias are
> lagging behind like nothing.
> 
> Besides we need to look after now sort of extinct but important old
> languages wikipedias Sanskrit and Pali
> 
> Main chalange is not how to increase their article or edit count but
> statisticaly self sustainable website service has to achieve  menimum
> 3000 membership mark from respective languages so website keeps
> getting adequate content and how do we do that?
> 

I don't know what to make out of your first statement, really. It would
be stupid to say what you've said. 

It might sound rude, but it would be nice if you do some homework before
writing vaguely like this. 

None of the wikis you have mentioned are "slow". They have much
better
ratio of quality content to stubs which is what the projects need in
order to grow. An infinite array of stubs isn't going to motivate new
visitors to become editors. Instead, it might just do the opposite.

Literacy levels or IT exposure has nothing significant to do with how
respective language Wikipedias are faring. 

The challenge of motivating more visitors to become editors has to be
addressed with a much different approach. There are technical barriers.
There are differences in culture that affect the way the projects are
received by the native speakers of each language. But I'd rather not
discuss that in a thread that started with some poorly formed
observation. 

  - h.p.


Save all your chat conversations. <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_webmessenger_3/*http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php" target="_blank">Find them online.
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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Challiyan
I second shiju here,

 
Rather than what Shiju pointed out, as a group we do all those and as an individual my additional startegem is to publicize malayalam wiki wherever I meet more than 2 people. and I have seen good responses from my friends and colleagues. I have got many from flickr site who are willing to provide any picture if one asks for wiki and I am glad that I have personally motivated many people to write for malayalam wiki in their free time, and I have succeeded. 

Another factor is retention of the active users. we constantly engage in serious discussions about articles and related issues which sometimes goes beyond the wall of discussion and that as well keep those active users come back for more..

Dr. Vipin

--
An Orthodontist dreaming to become a pilot
www.bharathdental.com
you can find me in regional wiki as http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Challiyan
and in flickr as http://www.flickr.com/photos/11852045@N08/

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Re: Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis

Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia

Thanks to shiju & Challiyan for valuable inputs some how at Marathi language wiki some thing like 5% people are being diverted from Marathi Language blogs 5% from rnglish wikipedia and majior chunk of 90% coming from Google.Frankly we are not doing well on mouth publicity level . Age group of active editors is still above middle age  and activity time for wikipedia is usualy short so effective article writing is in less no so even while as a policy we do not use bot to create new pages still back log on stub is huge.

 

But there are some good signs too first of all those who create stubs are aware of their responsibiity.Stubs are atleast well categorised and spellchecking and grammar quality is kept very good.Membership is increasing in an increamental manner with around 10% growth in membership increase every month.The fore most is it is an active online wikipedian community.But offline participation and initiative is not coming up so we are not able to hold any events kind of things

 

Well this is a good place to share the ideas about Pan Indian issues about Wikipedia growth in India

 

Thanks & regards

Mahitgar

 


--- On Tue, 22/1/08, Challiyan <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Challiyan <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Lower user and edit count of some Indian wikis
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, 22 January, 2008, 8:04 PM

I second shiju here,

 
Rather than what Shiju pointed out, as a group we do all those and as an individual my additional startegem is to publicize malayalam wiki wherever I meet more than 2 people. and I have seen good responses from my friends and colleagues. I have got many from flickr site who are willing to provide any picture if one asks for wiki and I am glad that I have personally motivated many people to write for malayalam wiki in their free time, and I have succeeded. 

Another factor is retention of the active users. we constantly engage in serious discussions about articles and related issues which sometimes goes beyond the wall of discussion and that as well keep those active users come back for more..

Dr. Vipin

--
An Orthodontist dreaming to become a pilot
www.bharathdental.com
you can find me in regional wiki as http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Challiyan
and in flickr as http://www.flickr.com/photos/11852045@N08/


Bring your gang together - do your thing. Start your group.
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