Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

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Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

John Byrne-8
I made it clear in the conversations on the 17th that I saw no sign of the WMUK Board wanting to dominate or set the agenda for UK WLM; like the rest of us they are hoping a champion will emerge.

I've posted the following at the discussion page for the WLM event, and suggest that discussion is continued there:

Following on from coversations at the Jan 17 events, mentioned on the UK mailing list, there seemed to be considerable agreement that, apart from the general aim of recruiting people etc, the most useful actual photos might well be in specialized areas where we were weak, as opposed to general "old buildings" where we are mostly very strong. Such specialized requirements could be encouraged by special classes with their own prizes. Those mentioned, as I recall, were:

*War memorials
*Wrecks (there are "Scheduled wrecks")
*Church furnishings
*Side of a building murals

Please add any other thoughts above or below.

Johnbod

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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

Andy Mabbett-2
On 19 January 2012 14:11, John Byrne <[hidden email]> wrote:

> the most useful actual photos might well be in specialized areas

> *War memorials
> *Wrecks (there are "Scheduled wrecks")
> *Church furnishings
> *Side of a building murals

* public art (statues, chalk carvings etc)
* fountains & other water features
* (blue) plaques (collaboration with openplaques.org)
* street furniture (notable historic; perhaps a representative sample of new)

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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

Rich Farmbrough
One thing that is fascinating to me are the painted equivalents of
billboards. These survive (not always intact) for decades and probably
centuries in some cases (in Stamford we have "Loose boxes and stabling"
on what form recollection is now a hardware store).

I would add water troughs to the list.

I will also add that while I was visiting South Mimms graveyard (in the
village, not the service station) many years ago, I happened across a
gentleman recording the details of the graves, of which (other than the
organization for which he was volunteering) there was no central record.

Foundation stones can be interesting, and dated architectural features,
and of course unusual manhole covers (I believe there used to be a
coterie of folk who made rubbings of these) though they are not exactly
monuments.

On war memorials note that not all are traditional stone crosses. The
organ at St Paul's, Winchmore Hill is a war memorial, and Stamford has a
wooden one outside All Saints, in addition to the rather grand affair
near Browne's Hospital (and a third inside St Mary's).






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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

Andy Mabbett-2
On 23 January 2012 00:51, Richard Farmbrough <[hidden email]> wrote:

> One thing that is fascinating to me are the painted equivalents of
> billboards. These survive (not always intact) for decades and probably
> centuries in some cases (in Stamford we have "Loose boxes and stabling" on
> what form recollection is now a hardware store).

Often referred to as "ghost signs" (a useful term should you wish to
search for them using Google of Flickr, say).

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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

Charles Matthews
In reply to this post by Rich Farmbrough


On 23 January 2012 00:51, Richard Farmbrough <[hidden email]> wrote:


I will also add that while I was visiting South Mimms graveyard (in the village, not the service station) many years ago, I happened across a gentleman recording the details of the graves, of which (other than the organization for which he was volunteering) there was no central record.

That's a whole big area, properly called "monumental inscriptions". Many graveyards and cemeteries have groups who record what is on the monuments, and/or maintain the place, and sometimes they keep a database of information about who is buried there. There is no centralisation, though, at present. It is a microcosm of the whole area, really.

Charles

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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

WereSpielChequers-2
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett-2
In suggesting things like war memorials I'm not trying to restrict people, but I would like to point them to our gaps. It should be easy for anyone to work out whether we have photographs of the churches, libraries, statues, war memorials, blue plaques, pubs and hospitals in their patch, and a fill in the gaps project would in my view be well worthwhile. I think that it is much more positive for our current and future photographers to acknowledge that we already have a couple of million images in the UK and our aim is to make that more comprehensive.

Of course those who are willing to look up lists rather than just look at the images that we already have would be welcome to complete our collections of listed buildings and Ancient monuments. ut for Wiki Loves Monuments I think we need to make things easy and at the same time interesting. The Geograph really does have images of a fallen fence post with the description "most interesting thing in this grid square". I think we could and should do a WLM contest that asks people to fill in interesting gaps, and caters for pretty much whatever interests our photographers.

A photo of every gravestone in every cemetery would certainly be of interest to the amateur genealogists, but we need to remember that not every volunteer would share their enthusiasm - I've categorised a fair few Geograph images and apart from notable people like Darwin, Monty and Captain Bligh the bulk of the cemetery shots don't give detail on inscriptions. But following on from Charles Matthes point, maybe what we should be doing is outreach to these various cemetery societies and offering them a home on the web for their images.

WereSpielChequers


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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

Jon Davies
I am sure you all know this but the Imperial War Museum uncatalogued  
every First World War memorial (Including private ones) a few years  
back.

Quoting WereSpielChequers <[hidden email]>:

> In suggesting things like war memorials I'm not trying to restrict people,
> but I would like to point them to our gaps. It should be easy for anyone to
> work out whether we have photographs of the churches, libraries, statues,
> war memorials, blue plaques, pubs and hospitals in their patch, and a fill
> in the gaps project would in my view be well worthwhile. I think that it is
> much more positive for our current and future photographers to acknowledge
> that we already have a couple of million images in the UK and our aim is to
> make that more comprehensive.
>
> Of course those who are willing to look up lists rather than just look at
> the images that we already have would be welcome to complete our
> collections of listed buildings and Ancient monuments. ut for Wiki Loves
> Monuments I think we need to make things easy and at the same time
> interesting. The Geograph really does have images of a fallen fence post
> with the description "most interesting thing in this grid square". I think
> we could and should do a WLM contest that asks people to fill in
> interesting gaps, and caters for pretty much whatever interests our
> photographers.
>
> A photo of every gravestone in every cemetery would certainly be of
> interest to the amateur genealogists, but we need to remember that not
> every volunteer would share their enthusiasm - I've categorised a fair few
> Geograph images and apart from notable people like Darwin, Monty and
> Captain Bligh the bulk of the cemetery shots don't give detail on
> inscriptions. But following on from Charles Matthes point, maybe what we
> should be doing is outreach to these various cemetery societies and
> offering them a home on the web for their images.
>
> WereSpielChequers
>



--
Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK.  07976 935 986
tweet @jonatreesdavies

Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited.
Wiki UK Ltd is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England  
and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513
Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House,  56-64 Leonard Street,  
London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom.
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who  
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent  
non-profit organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor  
responsibility for its contents.

Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk

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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

Jon Davies
Meant CATALOGUED not UNCATALGUED

Quoting Jon Davies <[hidden email]>:

> I am sure you all know this but the Imperial War Museum uncatalogued  
> every First World War memorial (Including private ones) a few years  
> back.
>
> Quoting WereSpielChequers <[hidden email]>:
>
>> In suggesting things like war memorials I'm not trying to restrict people,
>> but I would like to point them to our gaps. It should be easy for anyone to
>> work out whether we have photographs of the churches, libraries, statues,
>> war memorials, blue plaques, pubs and hospitals in their patch, and a fill
>> in the gaps project would in my view be well worthwhile. I think that it is
>> much more positive for our current and future photographers to acknowledge
>> that we already have a couple of million images in the UK and our aim is to
>> make that more comprehensive.
>>
>> Of course those who are willing to look up lists rather than just look at
>> the images that we already have would be welcome to complete our
>> collections of listed buildings and Ancient monuments. ut for Wiki Loves
>> Monuments I think we need to make things easy and at the same time
>> interesting. The Geograph really does have images of a fallen fence post
>> with the description "most interesting thing in this grid square". I think
>> we could and should do a WLM contest that asks people to fill in
>> interesting gaps, and caters for pretty much whatever interests our
>> photographers.
>>
>> A photo of every gravestone in every cemetery would certainly be of
>> interest to the amateur genealogists, but we need to remember that not
>> every volunteer would share their enthusiasm - I've categorised a fair few
>> Geograph images and apart from notable people like Darwin, Monty and
>> Captain Bligh the bulk of the cemetery shots don't give detail on
>> inscriptions. But following on from Charles Matthes point, maybe what we
>> should be doing is outreach to these various cemetery societies and
>> offering them a home on the web for their images.
>>
>> WereSpielChequers
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK.  07976 935 986
> tweet @jonatreesdavies
>
> Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited.
> Wiki UK Ltd is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England  
> and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513
> Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House,  56-64 Leonard  
> Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom.
> Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
> Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who  
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent  
> non-profit organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor  
> responsibility for its contents.
>
> Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
>



--
Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK.  07976 935 986
tweet @jonatreesdavies

Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited.
Wiki UK Ltd is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England  
and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513
Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House,  56-64 Leonard Street,  
London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom.
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who  
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent  
non-profit organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor  
responsibility for its contents.

Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk

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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

Michael Peel-4
In reply to this post by WereSpielChequers-2
Don't forget that whilst we have photos of a lot of things, we don't necessarily have *good* photos of them. In particular, Geograph consists mostly of low-resolution (and often low-quality) images. We could/should be encouraging people to share higher quality photos with Commons as well as covering subject gaps (e.g. by rewarding quality rather than quantity).

Thanks,
Mike

On 23 Jan 2012, at 12:42, WereSpielChequers wrote:

> In suggesting things like war memorials I'm not trying to restrict people, but I would like to point them to our gaps. It should be easy for anyone to work out whether we have photographs of the churches, libraries, statues, war memorials, blue plaques, pubs and hospitals in their patch, and a fill in the gaps project would in my view be well worthwhile. I think that it is much more positive for our current and future photographers to acknowledge that we already have a couple of million images in the UK and our aim is to make that more comprehensive.
>
> Of course those who are willing to look up lists rather than just look at the images that we already have would be welcome to complete our collections of listed buildings and Ancient monuments. ut for Wiki Loves Monuments I think we need to make things easy and at the same time interesting. The Geograph really does have images of a fallen fence post with the description "most interesting thing in this grid square". I think we could and should do a WLM contest that asks people to fill in interesting gaps, and caters for pretty much whatever interests our photographers.
>
> A photo of every gravestone in every cemetery would certainly be of interest to the amateur genealogists, but we need to remember that not every volunteer would share their enthusiasm - I've categorised a fair few Geograph images and apart from notable people like Darwin, Monty and Captain Bligh the bulk of the cemetery shots don't give detail on inscriptions. But following on from Charles Matthes point, maybe what we should be doing is outreach to these various cemetery societies and offering them a home on the web for their images.
>
> WereSpielChequers
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org


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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

Gordon Joly
In reply to this post by Rich Farmbrough
On 23/01/2012 00:51, Richard Farmbrough wrote:
>
> I would add water troughs to the list.

Good idea!

"Metropolitan Drinking Fountain & Cattle Trough Association"

http://www.flickr.com/groups/902751@N21/

More than 300 images in there!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/loopzilla/1323913761/in/pool-902751@N21/



Gordo

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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

HJ Mitchell
In reply to this post by Michael Peel-4
I agree with Mike that we should be recognising quality, and I agree with the others that focusing attention on specific gaps (as long as they're broad enough to interest enough people) is likely to yield better results than a "go out and take photos of whatever" approach.

Not quite within the scope of WLM, but it would be nice to get people to upload/release images relating to historical events. For example, there must be someone out there with photos of the aftermath of the Lockerbie bombing, or of the SAS storming the Iranian embassy, or even of the London bombings in 2005 (ie something more than a mobile phone photo taken in a tunnel and a photo of a queue of emergency vehicles). Images of notable events actually taking place (as opposed to, say, a picture of the burnt-out Iranian embassy after the siege) is an area where we struggle I think, and one of the few areas where commercial media out-do us.

Harry   


From: Michael Peel <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, 23 January 2012, 14:01
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

Don't forget that whilst we have photos of a lot of things, we don't necessarily have *good* photos of them. In particular, Geograph consists mostly of low-resolution (and often low-quality) images. We could/should be encouraging people to share higher quality photos with Commons as well as covering subject gaps (e.g. by rewarding quality rather than quantity).

Thanks,
Mike

On 23 Jan 2012, at 12:42, WereSpielChequers wrote:

> In suggesting things like war memorials I'm not trying to restrict people, but I would like to point them to our gaps. It should be easy for anyone to work out whether we have photographs of the churches, libraries, statues, war memorials, blue plaques, pubs and hospitals in their patch, and a fill in the gaps project would in my view be well worthwhile. I think that it is much more positive for our current and future photographers to acknowledge that we already have a couple of million images in the UK and our aim is to make that more comprehensive.
>
> Of course those who are willing to look up lists rather than just look at the images that we already have would be welcome to complete our collections of listed buildings and Ancient monuments. ut for Wiki Loves Monuments I think we need to make things easy and at the same time interesting. The Geograph really does have images of a fallen fence post with the description "most interesting thing in this grid square". I think we could and should do a WLM contest that asks people to fill in interesting gaps, and caters for pretty much whatever interests our photographers.
>
> A photo of every gravestone in every cemetery would certainly be of interest to the amateur genealogists, but we need to remember that not every volunteer would share their enthusiasm - I've categorised a fair few Geograph images and apart from notable people like Darwin, Monty and Captain Bligh the bulk of the cemetery shots don't give detail on inscriptions. But following on from Charles Matthes point, maybe what we should be doing is outreach to these various cemetery societies and offering them a home on the web for their images.
>
> WereSpielChequers
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org


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Re: Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.

Charles Matthews
In reply to this post by Michael Peel-4


On 23 January 2012 14:01, Michael Peel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Don't forget that whilst we have photos of a lot of things, we don't necessarily have *good* photos of them. In particular, Geograph consists mostly of low-resolution (and often low-quality) images. We could/should be encouraging people to share higher quality photos with Commons as well as covering subject gaps (e.g. by rewarding quality rather than quantity).


I imagined we were getting closer to an idea of a "pilot" along the lines WSQ was indicating. What I think we ultimately should aim for, in years to come, is not just a restatement of what Commons and "featured content" is for, 366 days a year. We do need a vehicle for outreach for those with data, not just photographers. 

Charles

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